Crucifix or Risen Christ?

[OraLabora]

One could also point out that accent marks aren’t actually a part of the Latin at all, and are only added to certain texts intended to be read aloud to facilitate pronunciation among people whose spoken Latin is poor.

Well actually it is also an integral part of chanting, and all chant books include the accentuation.

It is especially important in psalmody. It would be nearly impossible to get it right without the accents in psalms that aren’t pointed for the inflections. Which is the case for many books used to pray the Divine Office. There are two-accent medians and finales (III, VII), one accent medians and finales (II, IV, VIII), , one-accent medians with two accent finales (IV, V, E), and two accent medians with one accent finales (I). If you threw no accents in the text in with that, it would be pretty difficult to psalmody with good flow. It’s already hard enough counting syllables back from the accent as it is.

 

[VetA]

this is from a church that has been around since the 1850s the crucifix is small but still there so as for size i dont think it matters

 

[Chatter163]

One could also point out that accent marks aren’t actually a part of the Latin at all, and are only added to certain texts intended to be read aloud to facilitate pronunciation among people whose spoken Latin is poor.

One could also point out that that the words are Greek, not Latin.

 

[MarkThompson]

One could also point out that that the words are Greek, not Latin.

:doh2:

 

[ProVobis]

One could also point out that that the words are Greek, not Latin.

You’re right. They should mark them as such:

Κύριε ἐλέησον, Χριστὲ ἐλέησον, Κύριε ἐλέησον.

 

[johns58w]

Crucifix, from the Latin “cruci fixus”, meaning fixed to the cross. Crucifixion was the Roman Empire form of execution. A blank cross in the Catholic church would be ill defined because of not pertaining who was crucified.

I went to a Tridentine Latin Mass last week and so much of the confusion is gone. Yes many people were sentenced to this “cruci fixus” under the Roman empire. Jesus is nailed to this “cruci fixus”, because He is the sacrificial lamb, the ultimate sacrifice.

I went to a certain parish where a “ressurfix” ( i take it this is what is called?) is so “modernist”, “spirit of Vatican II”, truthfully I find it very distracting, irreverent and repulsive.

The main focus is Jesus Christ behind the Altar CRUCIFIED. Catholics from Jesus’ resurrection to 1962 A.D. were not stupid. It was simple, clear and cut.

I have seen videos on Archbishop Anibale Bugnini and the New Mass. He presented this New Mass at the Vatican and the majority of the bishops walked out on him. Popes, Cardinals, and Bishops since Pope Leo XIII have warned about “modernism” in the Catholic church before 1962.

I have seen videos on liturgical abuses of the Novus Ordo Mass. (lay people crowding the altar, liturgical dancing, certain priests portraying Las Vegas style entertainers at the altar and the list goes on). I left Mass in 1982 and returned in 2001. I thought the average Catholic in my diocese would teach me the faith where I left off. In 2003 I almost went to a Baptist church. I had to take initiative by my self to find out and learn my Catholic faith. Sad to say this liberal “baby boomer” Catholic generation really let me out to hang dry and led “faithful baby boomer Catholics” out to hang and dry.

Well no more! JPII sent the message! PBXVI is enforcing it ! Changes in Roman Missal in effect in 2011 to get Novus Ordo in lineage to TLM. Tell your dioceses to get rid of the “ressurfix” for Jesus crucified, put the tabernacles visible behind the altar, and get those kneelers back in house.

“THIS IS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, GET WITH THE PROGRAM”!

This “ressurfix” gig is the “secular approval”, “politically correct” “Oh! this violence offends my kids”. Get real! Layity a bunch of money and politics telling the bishops and priests how to “decorate the church building for political correctness” will corrupt a parish rapidly. I have seen this happen. These parishes are an embarrasment to the Catholic Church and their local communities.

My Bishop used to work in the Vatican. Since 2005 he has been “Cleaning House” in my diocese.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I believe as an option to the crucifix, the San Damiano Crucifix may also be used…



Please correct me if I made a mistake

 

[johns58w]

:

I believe as an option to the crucifix, the San Damiano Crucifix may also be used…

mhtbrooklyn.org

Please correct me if I made a mistake

San Samiano crucifix dates back to the 12th century. Icons common from the eastern rites. I noticed it’s also common with the Franciscan Friars in the Latin rite.

I have attended a Byzantine rite Mass. Icons, very ornate and well descriptive and respected. The mass was an experience for me on chants and greek language. The Byzantine mass reminded me of the Tridentine Latin Mass of the Latin rite.

Thank you for the information. God Bless

 

[UponTheAltar]

I prefer the crucifix because, as I like to say, it was not the wood of the cross that saved your life, it was the One hanging on it.

 

[VetA]

I prefer the crucifix because, as I like to say, it was not the wood of the cross that saved your life, it was the One hanging on it.

^this

and btw nice signature

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Benedictgal spells out the facts: There must be a Crucifix in the Sanctuary during the celebration of the Mass. There may also be other representations of Our Lord there as well.

It is incorrect to say that the empty Cross is a Protestant innovation, even more of an error to say that it “represents” or “symbolizes” the “Once Saved, Always Saved” heresy. That is absurd. The empty Cross is as much a part of Catholicism as the Crucifix. The Carmelites (Saint Teresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross, St. Therese Liuseux, Saint Teresa Benedicta of the Cross et al) have empty crosses for their members as a reminder/meditation on the fact that they are to mount the cross themselves. Also, representations of Christus Rex, Christ the King, are quite “traditional” (Our Lord wearing a royal crown and the robes of the priesthood superimposed on a Cross).

 

[JKirkLVNV]

I prefer the crucifix because, as I like to say, it was not the wood of the cross that saved your life, it was the One hanging on it.

Yet we venerate and reverence the Cross Itself, esp. on the Feast of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross.

 

[UponTheAltar]

Yet we venerate and reverence the Cross Itself, esp. on the Feast of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross.

Why do we venerate the cross though? Because it is of a fine oak? A beautiful cherry? No, because the one who hung upon it saved our lives through this act of love. The cross was a tool of salvation, and yes we venerate it but, it remains a tool and has an even more powerful statement when Christ is mounted upon it. I have nothing against the empty cross, I have one hanging on my lamp right in front of me. It’s just that the veneration that we pay to the cross doesn’t lose it’s value when the corpus is attached to it, but rather, is strengthened. We all have our preferences but, I prefer the one such as I have on my wall, corpus and all.

Look how pretty! The first one is me holding my wall crucifix and the second is a better picture with a similar crucifix, but not exact. Mine has ornate carvings on it with a red underlying lining that gives the appearance of blood. The carvings are of vines. On each end of the cross there contains a little vessel of stones, incense, olive leaves and rose petals all from the Holy Land which, is where the crucifix is from (made from olive wood from the Holy Land)! I likes it

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Why do we venerate the cross though? Because it is of a fine oak? A beautiful cherry? No, because the one who hung upon it saved our lives through this act of love. The cross was a tool of salvation, and yes we venerate it but, it remains a tool and has an even more powerful statement when Christ is mounted upon it. I have nothing against the empty cross, I have one hanging on my lamp right in front of me. It’s just that the veneration that we pay to the cross doesn’t lose it’s value when the corpus is attached to it, but rather, is strengthened. We all have our preferences but, I prefer the one such as I have on my wall, corpus and all.

Look how pretty! The first one is me holding my wall crucifix and the second is a better picture with a similar crucifix, but not exact. Mine has ornate carvings on it with a red underlying lining that gives the appearance of blood. The carvings are of vines. On each end of the cross there contains a little vessel of stones, incense, olive leaves and rose petals all from the Holy Land which, is where the crucifix is from (made from olive wood from the Holy Land)! I likes it

I am well aware of WHY we venerate the Cross. I, too, personally prefer the Crucifix (I collect them and have over 80 from around the world hanging on two walls). My point is this: The empty Cross has been a part of Catholic tradition for centuries, in our art, music, poetry, etc. It isn’t a scandal or wrong to have an empty Cross displayed in a church or in our homes (provided that there is a Crucifix in the sanctuary, as required by the canons). As Protestants wrongly argue that the Cross SHOULD be empty, so it is equally wrong-headed to argue that it should NOT be empty. That argument is not representative of the mind of the Church. Look at pictures of every pope from the late 1800’s through the Servant of God Pope John Paul the Great. Every one of them has a pectoral cross sans corpus and Pope Benedict carries a pastoral staff that does not display a Corpus (and which belonged to either Pius IX or X).

 

[miniquedoes]

The only time I saw a “Ressurifix” was in a convent chapel. It was really tall and I don’t think there was a Crucifix anywhere near the altar. The saddest part for me was that right outside the chapel was a beautiful life size Crucifix.

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

One idea for a parish that has a “resurrexifix” is to install a proper crucifix above or behind the altar and to move the risen Christ image to the back of the church over the rear doors.

 

[ConstantineTG]

One idea for a parish that has a “resurrexifix” is to install a proper crucifix above or behind the altar and to move the risen Christ image to the back of the church over the rear doors.

There is no issue with keeping it in front. As long as a crucifix is at the altar during Mass, then its fine.

 

[The_Old_Medic]

I think that some people will find something to complain about in virtually every church in the world.

The Roman Catholic Church preaches both the Crucified Christ AND the Risen Christ. Had he not risen, the cross would be meaningless. He would have just been another in a long line of Jews that got themselves into trouble and killed for their trouble.

It IS the risen Christ that makes the Church. Remember the great mystery of faith: Christ has died. Christ has risen. Christ will come again.

That says it all, in a nutshell. You can argue about the externals from now till doomsday, but the essentials are contained in that one great mystery.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I think that some people will find something to complain about in virtually every church in the world.

The Roman Catholic Church preaches both the Crucified Christ AND the Risen Christ. Had he not risen, the cross would be meaningless. He would have just been another in a long line of Jews that got themselves into trouble and killed for their trouble.

It IS the risen Christ that makes the Church. Remember the great mystery of faith: Christ has died. Christ has risen. Christ will come again.

That says it all, in a nutshell. You can argue about the externals from now till doomsday, but the essentials are contained in that one great mystery.

This goes beyond preference when it comes to Mass because the crucifix is mandatory for Mass.

 

[VetA]

The only time I saw a “Ressurifix” was in a convent chapel. It was really tall and I don’t think there was a Crucifix anywhere near the altar. The saddest part for me was that right outside the chapel was a beautiful life size Crucifix.

yeah but usually during the procession into Mass someone carries a crucifix so i think it still fufills the requirements of the Cannon