Crucifixion on Wednesday?

[Old_Scholar]

Ah, but here is one thing you need to consider:

The phrase “day and night” does not necessarily connote a twenty-four hour period as it does today (just like “day”). In Psalm 1:2, the psalmist meditates “day and night” on God’s word, but that does not mean that it refers to reading Scriptures twenty-fours nonstop! Therefore, “three days and three nights” is merely another expression for the idiom “three days”.

“Three days and three nights” is merely another way of saying “three days.” This can be seen in 1 Samuel 30:12-13, which contains the expression “for three days and three nights” (shalosh yamim v’shalosh laylot). The Septuagint for this verse is exactly the same as in Matthew 12:40 (treis imeras kai treis nyktas). Yet in verse 13, this time designation is described as “three days ago” (hayyom shelosha; simeion tritaion), which could only mean the day before yesterday in Jewish idiom.

In addition, it is clear in the book of Esther that “three days and three nights” does not necessarily mean 72 hours. For, although in 4:16 the Jews fasted for “three days, night or day” (shaloshet yomim laylah vayom; imeras treis nykta kai imeran) between the time they started and the time she appeared before the king, 5:1 states that Esther appeared before Ahasuerus “on the third day” (vayom shelishi; en ti imera ti triti).

So even if Jesus was not really crucified on a Friday, the Bible still allows for the traditional reckoning.

Just remember that each “day” really begins with night and you just can’t get to done anyway with Friday as the crucifiction day. We know Jesus arose between 5 and 6 am an Sunday. I believe Scripture says: “at daybreak.” That would be almost 6 am or right at 6 am.

 

[Old_Scholar]

Old Scholar

You keep suggesting that Jesus said “three days and three nights” so this must be three full days and three full nights otherwise Jesus was lying. But we have just been establishing that the idiom “days and nights” meaning any part of the day in Jewish thinking would make this statement by Jesus true (not a lie) and an idiom clearly understandable to his audience in their day. The fact that we, as 21st century readers don’t naturally have the context is the problem of reading through our own lense, rather than reading through the lense of a Jew in 30 AD.

And with your reading (must be after three days and three nights - otherwise Jesus is a lier), what about Jesus own words in Matt 16:21 ("From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life"). Wouldnt this make Jesus a lier (in your way of thinking) as he would have been raising after the end of three days and three nights and thus lied when he said he would be raised “on the third day”? Note, an understanding of the idiom/common Jewish understanding of part of a day constituting an entire day would make** both **of Jesus statements true as they must be since they are both the word of God.

In terms of the High Day issue: Per Catholic Answers: "Scripture repeatedly tells us that Jesus was crucified on “the day of preparation,” which was the first-century Jewish way of referring to Friday, the day of preparation for the Sabbath. This is why the women were not able to anoint his body before he was buried—because Jesus was hurriedly buried late in the afternoon, just as the Sabbath was beginning. The women thus had to rest until the Sabbath was over (Luke 23:56).

We are also told that the Jewish leaders asked Pilate to order the legs of the crucifixion victims broken so they would die faster (from asphyxiation due to an inability to push themselves up on their crosses and take a breath), “in order to prevent the bodies from remaining on the cross on the Sabbath” (John 19:31).

Some advocates of a Wednesday crucifixion concede that Jesus was crucified on the day before a Sabbath, but deny that this was the regular, weekly Sabbath. In later times, the phrase “day of preparation” came to be used to refer to the day before Passover and, this argument goes, Passover counted as a Sabbath in the sense that it was a day of rest, even though it usually did not fall on the weekly Sabbath. Thus Jesus was crucified on the day before Passover and had to be buried hurriedly on that account.

But this explanation will not do. In the first century, “the day of preparation” referred to Friday, not the day before Passover. Further, we know from Scripture that the Sabbath following Jesus’ crucifixion was the regular, weekly Sabbath, the seventh day of the week: “Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to see the sepulcher” (Matt. 28:1). "

Blessings,

Brian

So how do you get close to three days and three nights if Christ was crucified and gave up the ghost at 3 pm on Friday? He had to be in the tomb before the Sabbath, which began at 6 pm on Friday and then was gone before 6 am on Sunday morning. At most with that “reckoning” you get only part of two nights and one day…

 

[Old_Scholar]

I’ll try this one more time even though the important part of this all is that Christ was crucified for our sins, arose and sits at the right hand of God right now. We look forward to His returning soon…Let us look at this another way in order to get Christ arising on the third day.

Jesus gave a sign. To Jews, a sign was very important to them. They always wanted a sign so Jesus gave them one. He said three days and three nights. He didn’t say part of three days and part of three nights. He wasn’t using a Hebrew idiom, He was giving a sign—a very important sign.

So let’s look at the chronological events one more time. Scripture (Luke 22:15, 18, 19) tells us that the Passover meal was eaten on the 14th day of Abib. It was shortly after sunset when the meal started.

But perhaps it would be better to count backward from when the women went to the tomb. “When the Sabbath was over . . . very early on the first day of the week, just after sunrise, they were on their way to the tomb . . . But when they looked up they saw that the stone, which was very large, had been rolled away.” And they were told, “He has risen” (Mark 16:1-6). So we know that sometime prior to their arrival Christ had arisen. This would have been on the third day or we would call it Sunday morning but as the Jews reckoned, the time period from the ending of the Sabbath at 6 pm to 6 am was the third “night.” We know the day as Sunday however and we would say he arose Sunday before daybreak.

So Saturday at daybreak would have been 6 am and would make one day to us. From Saturday daybreak to Friday daybreak would make the second day to us. However the Sabbath would have been from 6 pm Friday to 6 pm Saturday. In any event, the second day would have been from Friday daybreak to Saturday daybreak and the third day from Saturday daybreak to Sunday daybreak.

Of course that makes daybreak Friday to daybreak Thursday the first day. We are told approximately when Christ was arrested and that time was between 10 pm and 3 am. It was well after they had had supper and rested in the garden. Christ was actually arrested and crucified the same day. This day was the 14th day of Abib or as it is known today, Nisan.

John 18:3, 12) tells us that Jesus was arrested after dark and it was long after the Passover meal had been eaten. Luke 22:54-56 tells us that Jesus was taken to a High priest at daybreak, the same day. First He was taken to Annas first, the father-in-law of Caiaphas, the high priest.(John 18:12) and then to Caiaphas. (John 18:24)

Jesus admits He is the Son of God and is beaten. Matt 26:65-68);(Mark 14:63-65);(Luke 22:63-71)
He is crucified and dies at 3 pm as Scripture says. He is entombed prior to the Sabbath, this special Sabbath beginning on Thursday evening at sunset 6 pm. That would make Friday the special Sabbath or the first day of unleavened bread, which was a high day.

We do have substantiation of this from the early church leaders. Philo and Polycarp connected the 14th day of Nisan to the crucifixion, as did Apollinaris of Hierapolis. Clement of Alexandria says Christ died on the 14th day of Abib. Hippolytus and Tertullian agreed and Irenæus wrote that it was Pascha, referring to the Paschal Lamb of the Passover. The Controversy of Apollinaris connected the 14th with the supper and the 15th with the crucifixion. So there was some disagreement among the early church.

The important part of the entire thing I related to above. The dates are not as important as the event but there is no way Christ could have died and been buried on Friday. That’s just a tradition that is incorrect and has been changed. I believe there was a very big dispute about this early between different factions of the church.

 

[Old_Scholar]

I noticed earlier that this verse was quoted here:

John 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

I wouldn’t want anyone to get the wrong idea—Christ didn’t have any bones broken…

 

[Robbinson]

Just remember that each “day” really begins with night and you just can’t get to done anyway with Friday as the crucifiction day. We know Jesus arose between 5 and 6 am an Sunday. I believe Scripture says: “at daybreak.” That would be almost 6 am or right at 6 am.

Forgive me if I’m being dense - but I don’t see the issue. As I’ve posted a few times, Jesus was crucified and buried on friday, before the Sabbath (which means he there for part of Friady - Friday being the “1st day”); He was in the tomb all of Saturday (the second day) and he arose on Sunday (was entombed for part of Sunday - the third day). Thus Jesus arose “on the third day” as he stated in Matthew and the 3 days and 3 nights is addressed per the idiom we discussed now in several posts.

You still haven’t answered my question of if you believe that 3 days and 3 nights controls (72 hours) - isn’t Jesus a lier or wrong in matthew when he says he will arise “on the third day” (not after the third day)?

Blessings,

Brian

 

[Old_Scholar]

Forgive me if I’m being dense - but I don’t see the issue. As I’ve posted a few times, Jesus was crucified and buried on friday, before the Sabbath (which means he there for part of Friady - Friday being the “1st day”); He was in the tomb all of Saturday (the second day) and he arose on Sunday (was entombed for part of Sunday - the third day). Thus Jesus arose “on the third day” as he stated in Matthew and the 3 days and 3 nights is addressed per the idiom we discussed now in several posts.

You still haven’t answered my question of if you believe that 3 days and 3 nights controls (72 hours) - isn’t Jesus a lier or wrong in matthew when he says he will arise “on the third day” (not after the third day)?

Blessings,

Brian

Actually Jesus said He would be in the earth for three nights and three days. He didn’t leave any question whether it would be only part of a day.

Also, try as you may, we know from Scripture that Jesus died at 3PM and was in the ground before 6 pm or sunset. If that was Friday because he had to be buried before the Sabbath, then to arise before daybreak on Sunday morning, He could not have been in the ground more than 28 - 29 hours. I don’t believe anyone could possible interpret that as three days and nights or even parts of three days and nights. Fortunately we have the Scriptures to tell the story straight.

He was placed in the ground on Wednesday evening just prior to Thursday, the special Sabbath as told by John. He arose prior to daybreak on Sunday and we don’t know at what time he arose but he was gone when the women got there. So in order to fulfill His prophecy, he had to have been raised prior to the end of Saturday on the third day.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Actually Jesus said He would be in the earth for three nights and three days. He didn’t leave any question whether it would be only part of a day.

Also, try as you may, we know from Scripture that Jesus died at 3PM and was in the ground before 6 pm or sunset. If that was Friday because he had to be buried before the Sabbath, then to arise before daybreak on Sunday morning, He could not have been in the ground more than 28 - 29 hours. I don’t believe anyone could possible interpret that as three days and nights or even parts of three days and nights. Fortunately we have the Scriptures to tell the story straight.

He was placed in the ground on Wednesday evening just prior to Thursday, the special Sabbath as told by John. He arose prior to daybreak on Sunday and we don’t know at what time he arose but he was gone when the women got there. So in order to fulfill His prophecy, he had to have been raised prior to the end of Saturday on the third day.

Dear Old Scholar,
Can you provide any citation, even one, from any time before and up to the time of Christ, where the greek word “prosabbaton” referred to any day other than Friday?
Thank you,
Neil

 

[Robbinson]

Actually Jesus said He would be in the earth for three nights and three days. He didn’t leave any question whether it would be only part of a day.

Also, try as you may, we know from Scripture that Jesus died at 3PM and was in the ground before 6 pm or sunset. If that was Friday because he had to be buried before the Sabbath, then to arise before daybreak on Sunday morning, He could not have been in the ground more than 28 - 29 hours. I don’t believe anyone could possible interpret that as three days and nights or even parts of three days and nights. Fortunately we have the Scriptures to tell the story straight.

He was placed in the ground on Wednesday evening just prior to Thursday, the special Sabbath as told by John. He arose prior to daybreak on Sunday and we don’t know at what time he arose but he was gone when the women got there. So in order to fulfill His prophecy, he had to have been raised prior to the end of Saturday on the third day.

Hi - my third (I think) attempt to get you to answer this question: I’ll repeat it again:

“You still haven’t answered my question of if you believe that 3 days and 3 nights controls (72 hours) - isn’t Jesus a lier or wrong in matthew when he says he will arise “on the third day” (not after the third day) or three days and three nights?”

Here are just a few verses you need to contend with (there are others as well).

"From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised. " (Matt 16:21)

"and they will kill him, and he will be raised on the third day." And they were greatly distressed. " (Matt 17:23)

**"and deliver him to the Gentiles to be mocked and scourged and crucified, and he will be raised on the third day." **](Matt 20:19)

"saying, "The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised." (Luke 9:22)

"they will scourge him and kill him, and on the third day he will rise." (Luke 18:33)

"that the Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and on the third day rise." (Luke 24:7)

"but God raised him on the third day and made him manifest" (Act 10:40)

"that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures," (1 cor 15:4))

Blessings,

Brian

 

[Old_Scholar]

Dear Old Scholar,
Can you provide any citation, even one, from any time before and up to the time of Christ, where the greek word “prosabbaton” referred to any day other than Friday?
Thank you,
Neil

I haven’t had time to research this word but I know it means “prior to the Sabbath.” I don’t know where all it is used. Perhaps you can research it. It’s a word I haven’t used.

Even if we wanted to accept the idiom that an part of a day or night refers to it all, then a Friday crucifixion still wouldn’t fit. We have to believe Christ’s words and all the Scriptures say He arose on the third day so Friday just won’t fit. I don’t know how the church ever started celebrating this date. I’ll have to study the early church leaders much more to determine what the reason was. I think it was like so many other things changed by the church however, that it was simply a matter of convenience. John tells us there was a special holy day that week and that would have been called a Sabbath and that is what makes Friday as the wrong day to celebrate.

 

[Old_Scholar]

Hi - my third (I think) attempt to get you to answer this question: I’ll repeat it again:

“You still haven’t answered my question of if you believe that 3 days and 3 nights controls (72 hours) - isn’t Jesus a lier or wrong in matthew when he says he will arise “on the third day” (not after the third day) or three days and three nights?”

Here are just a few verses you need to contend with (there are others as well).

"From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised. " (Matt 16:21)

"and they will kill him, and he will be raised on the third day." And they were greatly distressed. " (Matt 17:23)

"and deliver him to the Gentiles to be mocked and scourged and crucified, and he will be raised on the third day." ](Matt 20:19)

"saying, "The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised." (Luke 9:22)

"they will scourge him and kill him, and on the third day he will rise." (Luke 18:33)

"that the Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and on the third day rise." (Luke 24:7)

"but God raised him on the third day and made him manifest" (Act 10:40)

"that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures," (1 cor 15:4))

Blessings,

Brian

The verses we have to contend with are Jesus’ own words. He said he would be in the ground for three days and three nights and you have to have some idea of how that was. You simply can’t fit it into a Friday 3 pm crucifixion. If you can, please show us all how you do it…

Three days and three nights, provided they were full days and nights would certainly be 72 hours.

 

[patrick457]

Three days and three nights, provided they were full days and nights would certainly be 72 hours.

The problem is, when 1st-century Jews say “three days and three nights”, they mean it in the same sense as “three days”. I guess our choice of words are at fault here: it is not so much as an ‘idiom’ as a different method of time reckoning.

 

[Robbinson]

The verses we have to contend with are Jesus’ own words. He said he would be in the ground for three days and three nights and you have to have some idea of how that was. You simply can’t fit it into a Friday 3 pm crucifixion. If you can, please show us all how you do it…

Three days and three nights, provided they were full days and nights would certainly be 72 hours.

Are you suggesting we don’t have to contend with all these other verses of scripture which, on your interpretation, would directly contravene “three days and three nights”? Don’t you accept the inerrancy of all of scripture (God’s word?)? A basic accepted doctrine of biblical interpretation is that we must interpret each verse in context and in harmony with all others. I’ve (and others on this thread) have given you a way to do that (harmonizing the three days and three nights with the “arise on the third day” verses (which are numerous). I’ve also showed how the “3 days” is in fact satisfied.

It sounds to me like you have a personal interpretation on this and you are just not willing to look at the deficiceny of that viewpoint in light of these many contadictory verses (God’s word - which makes them Jesus words as well).

Please at least think about that - perhaps you will find a way of harmonizing them to your way of thinking - but please don’t write off the other verses to support your current view.

Blessings,

Brian

 

[Neil_Anthony]

I haven’t had time to research this word but I know it means “prior to the Sabbath.” I don’t know where all it is used. Perhaps you can research it. It’s a word I haven’t used.

Well, I’m not really a scholar, so I don’t know how. I thought maybe being an old scholar you would know

 

[Old_Scholar]

Are you suggesting we don’t have to contend with all these other verses of scripture which, on your interpretation, would directly contravene “three days and three nights”? Don’t you accept the inerrancy of all of scripture (God’s word?)? A basic accepted doctrine of biblical interpretation is that we must interpret each verse in context and in harmony with all others. I’ve (and others on this thread) have given you a way to do that (harmonizing the three days and three nights with the “arise on the third day” verses (which are numerous). I’ve also showed how the “3 days” is in fact satisfied.

Blessings,

Brian

It isn’t really all those other verses, it’s just the way you interpret the crucifixion and resurrection. You don’t seem to put much emphasis on the sign given by Jesus Christ to the Scribes and Pharisees. No doubt He said three days and three nights, and even if you use part of each day and night, you still can’t get three nights out of a 3 pm crucifixion and entombment on Friday evening and arising Sunday morning or even at the beginning of Sunday morning which was 6 pm Saturday evening. You just can’t get it out of that.

You’re putting far too much faith in tradition but tradition won’t cut it here. Just facts…

 

[Old_Scholar]

Well, I’m not really a scholar, so I don’t know how. I thought maybe being an old scholar you would know

As for the Friday or Wednesday issue, there are many good scholars on each side of this controversy. I personally have become rather cynical toward any traditions that are not supported by Scripture. Good Friday is the “traditional” view. The Wednesday Crucifixion is known as the “reconstructed view.” The important thing is that the tomb was empty. The authorities made sure that this was indisputable. Indeed, He is risen!

 

[benedictus2]

Actually Jesus said He would be in the earth for three nights and three days. He didn’t leave any question whether it would be only part of a day.

Also, try as you may, we know from Scripture that Jesus died at 3PM and was in the ground before 6 pm or sunset. If that was Friday because he had to be buried before the Sabbath, then to arise before daybreak on Sunday morning, He could not have been in the ground more than 28 - 29 hours. I don’t believe anyone could possible interpret that as three days and nights or even parts of three days and nights. Fortunately we have the Scriptures to tell the story straight.

He was placed in the ground on Wednesday evening just prior to Thursday, the special Sabbath as told by John. He arose prior to daybreak on Sunday and we don’t know at what time he arose but he was gone when the women got there. So in order to fulfill His prophecy, he had to have been raised prior to the end of Saturday on the third day.

I think you are always equating day with 24 hours but as Robinson and others have shown, day means anytime time during the specified day. Third day does not mean rising after 72 hours.

Thur 6pm to Fri 6pm is day 1. Jesus died on Friday 3 PM so within day 1
Fri 6pm to Sat 6 pm is day 2. Christ remained dead in day 2
Sat 6 PM to Sun 6 PM is day3. He rose on day threee. After Sunrise on day 3 the women went to the tomb. His rising is within day 3.

 

[benedictus2]

Actually Jesus said He would be in the earth for three nights and three days. He didn’t leave any question whether it would be only part of a day.

Also, try as you may, we know from Scripture that Jesus died at 3PM and was in the ground before 6 pm or sunset. If that was Friday because he had to be buried before the Sabbath, then to arise before daybreak on Sunday morning, He could not have been in the ground more than 28 - 29 hours. I don’t believe anyone could possible interpret that as three days and nights or even parts of three days and nights. Fortunately we have the Scriptures to tell the story straight.

He was placed in the ground on Wednesday evening just prior to Thursday, the special Sabbath as told by John. He arose prior to daybreak on Sunday and we don’t know at what time he arose but he was gone when the women got there. So in order to fulfill His prophecy, he had to have been raised prior to the end of Saturday on the third day.

And another thing. Jesus celebrated the Passover meal (seder) with his disciples the night before his agony in the garden and his arrest.

In 33 AD the Passover Seder would have been celebrated on 15 Nissan which was a Wednesday. In 34 AD it falls on a Thurs.

If we assume that it took only a few hours to take him around to Pilate, Herod and Caiphas then He would most have likely died in AD34.

If however it took them quite a while (perhaps a day) to take him around then He would have died in 33 AD with and the Seder meal actually celebrated on a Wed.

Either way, He could not have been crucified on a Wed.

 

[patrick457]

Let me dig up that list I made a while ago:

• 26 A.D.-April 19 and 20, Friday and Saturday
• 27 A.D.-April 9 and 10, Wednesday and Thursday
• 28 A.D.-April 26 and 27, Monday and Tuesday
• 29 A.D.-April 16 and 17, Saturday and Sunday
• 30 A.D.-April 5 and 6, Wednesday and Thursday
• 31 A.D.-April 25 and 26, Wednesday and Thursday
• 32 A.D.-April 14 and 15, Monday and Tuesday
• 33 A.D.-April 3 and 4, Friday and Saturday
• 34 A.D.-April 21 and 22, Wednesday and Thursday
• 35 A.D.-April 11 and 12, Monday and Tuesday
• 36 A.D.-March 30 and 31, Friday and Saturday

 

[EvelynMilne]

Now I’m totally confused. Would the High Sabbath you are talking about be the Passover feast? If so ,didn’t Jesus celebrate this with his disciples on Thursday (The day before He died)? therefor He must have been buried before sundown on the regular Sabbath (i.e.Friday evening). When did the Julian Calander come into being anyway. Was it before or after The Cruxifiction?
I know it begins at the birth of Christ but that is not when it was instituted.

 

[EvelynMilne]

What does it matter anyway? If you have faith and believe, these niggeling little details don’t matter. No-one knows exactly when he was born either. The only things that are important are that He WAS born and DID die for us. If they were important. God would have made sure that there was absolutely no doubt re. dates and times. It is for this reason we don’t know very much about his childhood. It’s not important!!!