Crucifixion on Wednesday?

[Old_Scholar]

Now I’m totally confused. Would the High Sabbath you are talking about be the Passover feast? If so ,didn’t Jesus celebrate this with his disciples on Thursday (The day before He died)? therefor He must have been buried before sundown on the regular Sabbath (i.e.Friday evening). When did the Julian Calander come into being anyway. Was it before or after The Cruxifiction?
I know it begins at the birth of Christ but that is not when it was instituted.

I agree with your next post that the most important thing about this is that Christ died for our sins and was resurrected and sits at the right hand of God.

But to answer your question, the day of Passover was not the high day but the next day, the first day of Unleavened Bread. That was the high day. Jesus was tried, condemned, sacrificed and entombed on the sam day, Nisan 14, Wednesday to us. The meal was eaten at the beginning of the preparation day remembering that the day started at 6 pm on Tuesday. 6 pm on Tuesday to 6 pm Wednesday was the preparation day and Thursday was the 15th of Abib.

 

[benedictus2]

I agree with your next post that the most important thing about this is that Christ died for our sins and was resurrected and sits at the right hand of God.

But to answer your question, the day of Passover was not the high day but the next day, the first day of Unleavened Bread. That was the high day. Jesus was tried, condemned, sacrificed and entombed on the sam day, Nisan 14, Wednesday to us. The meal was eaten at the beginning of the preparation day remembering that the day started at 6 pm on Tuesday. 6 pm on Tuesday to 6 pm Wednesday was the preparation day and Thursday was the 15th of Abib.

I checked and the Seder meal was eaten on Nissan 15 which makes it either a Wednesday (AD33) or Thursday (AD34) so Jesus would not have been crucified and entombed on Nissan 14.

 

[benedictus2]

I agree with your next post that the most important thing about this is that Christ died for our sins and was resurrected and sits at the right hand of God.

But to answer your question, the day of Passover was not the high day but the next day, the first day of Unleavened Bread. That was the high day. Jesus was tried, condemned, sacrificed and entombed on the sam day, Nisan 14, Wednesday to us. The meal was eaten at the beginning of the preparation day remembering that the day started at 6 pm on Tuesday. 6 pm on Tuesday to 6 pm Wednesday was the preparation day and Thursday was the 15th of Abib.

Reply 2. I think the reason for your confusion here is because John does not have a narrative for the institution of the Eucharist. Instead he situtates the crucifixioin of Christ at the time they are slaughtering the lambs to bring home the point that Christ is the Lamb that is being sacrificed for our sins. If you take John alone as historical account, then you could say that Christ was crucified on Nissan 14.

But the synoptic Gospels all have accounts of Jesus eating the passover meal (the Seder) with them which happens on Nissan 15.

Depending on how long the two and fro between Pilate and the High Priests, it could either have happened on 33 AD or 34 AD.

 

[irenaeus1]

The verses we have to contend with are Jesus’ own words. He said he would be in the ground for three days and three nights and you have to have some idea of how that was. You simply can’t fit it into a Friday 3 pm crucifixion. If you can, please show us all how you do it…

Three days and three nights, provided they were full days and nights would certainly be 72 hours.

The verses we have to contend with are Jesus’ own words. He said he would rise on the third day, not on the fourth day. If Jesus was crucified on Wednesday and buried by 6pm Wednesday (or the beginning of Thursday since Thursday started at 6pm) and Christ rose sometime Sunday morning, then He rose on the fourth day.

 

[agent_grey]

we already believe in Yeshua. So it is kinda pointless for us. This sign is for the unbelievers. we are the believers. So much so that we believe in the real presence in communion. It is the deniers of the real presence that seek this stuff out and must solve this riddle.

That is why I have never met a Sabbath keeper or old testament festival keeper that believes the real presence. If I did I would have to really rethink whether Catholicism was the one and only true religion.

 

[patrick457]

Depending on how long the two and fro between Pilate and the High Priests, it could either have happened on 33 AD or 34 AD.

Pilate served as Prefect of Judea between 26-36 AD, while Herod Antipas reigned from 4 BC to 39 AD. Yosef bar Kayafa, meanwhile, was the Jewish Kohen Gadol from 18 to 37 AD. Taking these in, Jesus could have conceivably died somewhere between 26-36 AD.

Scholars generally believe that Jesus was born some years before 1 AD (there is no 0 AD); Matthew places Jesus’ birth under the reign of Herod the Great, who died in 4 BC. Matthew also recorded that Herod had all the male children in Bethlehem two years old and younger executed. The order’s instruction of “two and under”, along with the inference that it took Herod time to realize that the magi were not about to deliver the child to him, implies a birth no later than 8-4 BC.

If we’ll believe the traditional statement that Jesus lived for 33 years, then that narrows our choice between 26-30 AD. Of course, there is a possibility that - contrary to popular belief - Jesus lived for more than 33 years, which would make the 33 AD and 36 AD dates possible.

 

[Ron_Conte]

The day of Preparation is the day before the Sabbath, that is, Friday. On that day, devout Jews prepare what they need for the next day, so that they can keep the Sabbath as a day of rest. All four Gospels tell us plainly that Jesus died on the day before the Jewish Sabbath, on Friday (Mk 15:42; Mt 27:62; Lk 23:54, 56; Jn 19:31, 42).

Sacred Tradition has always held that Jesus died on a Friday, and rose on a Sunday.

There was a dispute in the early Church as to whether the day for solemnly remembering the Crucifixion should be held every year on a Friday, or on the 14th day of the month. The reason for the dispute was that Jesus died on Friday, Nisan 14, which was both the preparation day [Friday] of the Sabbath [Saturday], and the Preparation Day [Nisan 14] of the Passover [beginning Nisan 15]. Eventually, the Church decided that we should celebrate on Friday, but notice that no one was arguing that we should celebrate on a Thursday or Wednesday, or on the 15th of the month.

The ‘three days and three nights’ argument is easily refuted by the fact that the Jews would count any portion of a day as a whole day; so ‘three days and three nights’ is a figurative expression referring to the three days of Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. If we were to interpret that phrase in an overly literal manner, then it would contradict those verses that state that Jesus died on the preparation day [Friday] of the Sabbath. Scripture cannot contradict itself, therefore the expression is figurative.

Neither is it a falsehood or a lie to speak in a figurative manner:

[John]
{11:11} He said these things, and after this, he said to them: “Lazarus our friend is sleeping. But I am going, so that I may awaken him from sleep.”
{11:12} And so his disciples said, “Lord, if he is sleeping, he shall be healthy.”
{11:13} But Jesus had spoken about his death. Yet they thought that he spoke about the repose of sleep.
{11:14} Therefore, Jesus then said to them plainly, “Lazarus has died.”

Nisan 14 was not permitted by the Jews to fall on a Thursday, and Nisan 15 was not permitted to fall on a Friday, because this would make for two days on which no work could be done in a row Nisan 15 and Saturday.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

The day of Preparation is the day before the Sabbath, that is, Friday. On that day, devout Jews prepare what they need for the next day, so that they can keep the Sabbath as a day of rest. All four Gospels tell us plainly that Jesus died on the day before the Jewish Sabbath, on Friday (Mk 15:42; Mt 27:62; Lk 23:54, 56; Jn 19:31, 42).

Sacred Tradition has always held that Jesus died on a Friday, and rose on a Sunday.

There was a dispute in the early Church as to whether the day for solemnly remembering the Crucifixion should be held every year on a Friday, or on the 14th day of the month. The reason for the dispute was that Jesus died on Friday, Nisan 14, which was both the preparation day [Friday] of the Sabbath [Saturday], and the Preparation Day [Nisan 14] of the Passover [beginning Nisan 15]. Eventually, the Church decided that we should celebrate on Friday, but notice that no one was arguing that we should celebrate on a Thursday or Wednesday, or on the 15th of the month.

Thank you for clearing that up, Ron. Do you know which years had the Passover fall on the sabbath? I’ve tried looking online but I found conflicting answers abotu which day Passover was around 30AD.

 

[benedictus2]

Thank you for clearing that up, Ron. Do you know which years had the Passover fall on the sabbath? I’ve tried looking online but I found conflicting answers abotu which day Passover was around 30AD.

I have just realized that I made an error with my earlier post because I looked at the corresponding table on the Roman Calendar.

Considering the accounts of the synoptic Gospels that Jesus celebrated the Seder (Passover meal) with his disciples the evening before his death.

The Seder is on the 15th of Nissan.

Below are the corresponding days for 15 Nissan

AD29 = Sunday
AD30 = Thurs
AD31 = Thurs
AD32 = Tues
AD33 = Sat
AD 34 = Thurs

---

---

 

[Old_Scholar]

Ron Conte

This is another case where you are letting your “Sacred Tradition” override Scripture and that just can’t be done. There has been ample evidence in this thread already to show where Jesus had to die on Wednesday and buried prior to the special Sabbath on Thursday which began at sunset or 6 pm Wednesday night.

You just can’t reconcile three days and three nghts any way you try from Jesus dying at 3 pm on Friday, being buried just prior to 6pm and arising after 6 pm on Saturday. There is no way to get the time you want to claim for that event.

Why would you not believe Scripture? All your early church leaders claimed that any tradition had to be based on Scripture or else it was false. It takes a great deal of playing around with the time to get this event according to tradition. It just can’t be done!

 

[benedictus2]

Ron Conte

This is another case where you are letting your “Sacred Tradition” override Scripture and that just can’t be done. There has been ample evidence in this thread already to show where Jesus had to die on Wednesday and buried prior to the special Sabbath on Thursday which began at sunset or 6 pm Wednesday night.

You just can’t reconcile three days and three nghts any way you try from Jesus dying at 3 pm on Friday, being buried just prior to 6pm and arising after 6 pm on Saturday. There is no way to get the time you want to claim for that event.

Why would you not believe Scripture? All your early church leaders claimed that any tradition had to be based on Scripture or else it was false. It takes a great deal of playing around with the time to get this event according to tradition. It just can’t be done!

Actually you are the one not getting Scripture. If Jesus died on Wed at 3pm. Here is the day count.

Tues 6pm - Wed 6Pm - 1st day
Wed 6pm - Thurs 6pm - 2nd Day
Thurs 6pm - Fri 6pm - 3rd Day
Frid 6pm - Sat 6 Pm - 4th day
Sat - 6pm - Sun 6pm - 5th day

A Wednesday Crucifixion will have Christ rising on the 5th day.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

I have just realized that I made an error with my earlier post because I looked at the corresponding table on the Roman Calendar.

Considering the accounts of the synoptic Gospels that Jesus celebrated the Seder (Passover meal) with his disciples the evening before his death.

The Seder is on the 15th of Nissan.

Below are the corresponding days for 15 Nissan

AD29 = Sunday
AD30 = Thurs
AD31 = Thurs
AD32 = Tues
AD33 = Sat
AD 34 = Thurs

---

---

But using that table, the last supper & crucifixion were on the preparation day, 14 Nissan… which would mean AD 33, when Sabbath and Passover co-incided.

 

[cerad]

Are we not forgetting that Jesus is God and that to God a thousand years is as a day? Seems like we still have another thousand years or so before Jesus gets out of the tomb.

 

[agent_grey]

To accept that theory would be to say that Jesus did not tell the truth. You can’t get three days and three nights out of Friday night to Saturday night.

To insist the copied and copied and translated and translated scripture absolutely must be the exact words that Yeshua spoke might not be the greatest idea.

Yeshua didn’t speak Greak nor English when he spoke these words. He wasn’t speaking to people of 21st century traditions and Culture either.

I even met an Adventist that told me if ANYTHING in his 66 bible that was decided by 6 mans interpretation was wrong in any way he wouldn’t believe in God. Again … very dangerous. And then he accuses me of worshipping the sun… Pathetic!

 

[benedictus2]

benedictus2:

*I have just realized that I made an error with my earlier post because I looked at the corresponding table on the Roman Calendar. *

Considering the accounts of the synoptic Gospels that Jesus celebrated the Seder (Passover meal) with his disciples the evening before his death.

*The Seder is on the 15th of Nissan. *

Below are the corresponding days for 15 Nissan

AD29 = Sunday
AD30 = Thurs
AD31 = Thurs
AD32 = Tues
AD33 = Sat
AD 34 = Thurs

But using that table, the last supper & crucifixion were on the preparation day, 14 Nissan… which would mean AD 33, when Sabbath and Passover co-incided.

Actually no.

The Seder ( the Passover ) is celebrated on 15 Nissan and not on 14 Nissan.

It is only in John’s account that the Crucifixion is held on the preparation day which is 14 Nissan. I think this is to give emphasis that Jesus is the Lamb to be sacrficied for our sins.

The synoptics on the other hand does not say this. Rather, the three Gospels say that crufixion happened after the Seder which happens to be on 15 Nissan.

Thurs 6PM - Fri 6PM = 15 Nissan = Passover and Crucifixion - 1st Day
Fri 6PM - Sat 6PM = 16 Nissan = Sabbath - 2nd Day
Sat 6PM- Sun 6PM - 17 Nissan = Ressurection - 3rd Day

The only possible years therefore is 30,31 and 34 AD.

 

[cfrancis]

Ron Conte

This is another case where you are letting your “Sacred Tradition” override Scripture and that just can’t be done. There has been ample evidence in this thread already to show where Jesus had to die on Wednesday and buried prior to the special Sabbath on Thursday which began at sunset or 6 pm Wednesday night.

You just can’t reconcile three days and three nghts any way you try from Jesus dying at 3 pm on Friday, being buried just prior to 6pm and arising after 6 pm on Saturday. There is no way to get the time you want to claim for that event.

Why would you not believe Scripture? All your early church leaders claimed that any tradition had to be based on Scripture or else it was false. It takes a great deal of playing around with the time to get this event according to tradition. It just can’t be done!

Welcome back, Cal; good to see you posting again

Can you provide a “schematic” for your position, similar to the way benedictus2 does in this post:

Actually you are the one not getting Scripture. If Jesus died on Wed at 3pm. Here is the day count.

Tues 6pm - Wed 6Pm - 1st day
Wed 6pm - Thurs 6pm - 2nd Day
Thurs 6pm - Fri 6pm - 3rd Day
Frid 6pm - Sat 6 Pm - 4th day
Sat - 6pm - Sun 6pm - 5th day

A Wednesday Crucifixion will have Christ rising on the 5th day.

 

[Old_Scholar]

Welcome back, Cal; good to see you posting again

Can you provide a “schematic” for your position, similar to the way benedictus2 does in this post:

Yes I have Chris. Just read the entire thread. I have given great detail. And by the way, I didn’t leave here voluntary, I was enjoying the discussions but someone didn’t like what I was saying…In any event I have very little time for this now, was just passing by…

The post you cite isn’t even close to Scripture. Christ said He would be “in the ground” for three days and three nights. He wasn’t placed into the tomb, as you know, until just prior to the high Sabbath which would have started at sunset on Wednesday evening as we count time. When we start questioning what Christ said, just to fit our own agends, then we are really stretching things…

I believe that you would agree that from sunset on Friday to “prior to” daybreak on Sunday morning(as we count time) doesn’t even come close to being three nights or any part of a third night.

 

[cfrancis]

Yes I have Chris. Just read the entire thread. I have given great detail. And by the way, I didn’t leave here voluntary, I was enjoying the discussions but someone didn’t like what I was saying…In any event I have very little time for this now, was just passing by…

The post you cite isn’t even close to Scripture. Christ said He would be “in the ground” for three days and three nights. He wasn’t placed into the tomb, as you know, until just prior to the high Sabbath which would have started at sunset on Wednesday evening as we count time. When we start questioning what Christ said, just to fit our own agends, then we are really stretching things…

I believe that you would agree that from sunset on Friday to “prior to” daybreak on Sunday morning(as we count time) doesn’t even come close to being three nights or any part of a third night.

Cal, I just wanted you to put into the same format as benedictus2, your position. I’ve read the thread, but I think you can sum it up in the same fashion. I really want to see - visually - what your take is.

EDIT: BTW, how is Grace doing these days?

 

[cfrancis]

The post you cite isn’t even close to Scripture. Christ said He would be “in the ground” for three days and three nights. He wasn’t placed into the tomb, as you know, until just prior to the high Sabbath which would have started at sunset on Wednesday evening as we count time. When we start questioning what Christ said, just to fit our own agends, then we are really stretching things…

Cal, just to clarify, benedictus2, in the post I cited, is attempting to put forth, in visual terms, your position, which is why I want you to do the same thing, to see if benedictus2 and I understand your position.

 

[irenaeus1]

I believe that you would agree that from sunset on Friday to “prior to” daybreak on Sunday morning(as we count time) doesn’t even come close to being three nights or any part of a third night.

I believe that you would agree that from sunset on Wednesday to “prior to” daybreak on Sunday morning (as we count time) doesn’t even come close to being raised on the third day. Again Old Scholar, He would have been raised on the FOURTH day. Does this not bother you?