crucifixion

[debraran]

Hi, This might not seem like a big deal, but someone asked me why they always show Jesus carrying the full cross (and the thieves the cross-bar) when no one really did that at the time…they carried the part that their arms were on (which was heavy enough) but the whole cross wasn’t common practice. I noticed in movies portraying it, the theives usually didn’t have the full cross and Jesus did, I thought maybe it was an added insult.
But then I coudln’t find anything about that.

Anyone know what was accurate for that time? It isn’t a big deal, but a non-Catholic might think we changed things. From what I’ve read, they usually say a cross-beam on Catholic sites, even on the Shroud of Turin page I read recently. I think it’s probably to show the heavienss of his cross to show the whole thing. The actual one they feel would be 300lbs in all.

 

[Trishie]

The crossbeam was usually carried by the condemned. The upright beam was set already into place, but the Christian symbolism of the complete cross has always been strong in art and literature, and later, film. In any case, Jesus carried the crossbeam astride his back and shoulders that had been flayed. The flogging with thongs ending in sharp, cruel implements that lashed into his flesh would have made carrying the heavy hewn crossbeam sheer agony. The symbol of the cross is complete only as Jesus hung on the cross to die, pushing upward on the foot nail to gasp air into his lungs congested by the weight of His body on the nails that pinned His wrists, shooting agony through the median nerves.

 

[debraran]

I heard a priest say once that the wounds must have started to heal when he had to carry the cross and the roughness of the wood must have opened them, carrying it and later on the cross. Made my stomach lurch but something to meditate on especially when praying the rosary or when I “forget” the sacrifice.

I don’t know why the statons of the cross and movies started doing that, maybe for “effect” or to seperate him from the thieves.
Sometimes it takes something that little for someone who is looking for something, to say, “see how they alter things?”
In doing a quick search though, I only see cross-beam.
This picture, simple in it’s drawing, gives a lot to mediate on:
holyface.all-catholic.net/thecross.html

 

[CentralFLJames]

Yea, dogs are round about me; a company of evildoers encircle me; they have pierced my hands and feet–I can count all my bones. (Ps 22:16-17)

Saint Bernard of Clairvaux
It is related in the annals of Clairvaux that St. Bernard asked Our Lord which was His greatest unrecorded suffering, and He answered: "I had on My Shoulder while I bore My Cross on the Way of Sorrows, a grevious Wound which was more painful than the others, and which is not recorded by men. Honor this Wound with thy devotion, and I will grant thee whatsoever thou does ask through its virtue and merit. And in regard to all those who shall venerate this wound, I will remit to them all their venial sins, and will no longer remember their mortal sins"

Prayer to the Shoulder Wound of Christ:

Most loving Jesus, meek Lamb of God, I, a miserable sinner, salute and worship the most Sacred Wound of Thy Shoulder on which Thou didst bear Thy heavy Cross which so toreThy flesh and laid bareThy Bones as to inflict on Thee an anguish greater than any other wound of Thy Most Blessed Body. I adore Thee, O Jesus most sorrowful; I praise and glorify Thee, and give The thanks for this most sacred and painful Wound, beseeching Thee by that exceeding pain, and by the crushing burden of Thy heavy Cross to be merciful to me, a sinner, to forgive me all my mortal and venial sins, and to lead me on towards Heaven along the Way of Thy Cross. Amen.

(Imprimatur: +Thomas D. Beven, Bishop of Springfield.)

Pope Eugenius III, at the earnest request of St. Bernard, granted three thousand years Indulgence to all who with a contrite heart, recite the Lord’s Prayer and the Hail Mary 3 times, in honor of the Wound on the Shoulder of Our Blessed Redeemer.

Chaplet of the Seven Wounds of Christ
Promises of Our Lord for those who are Devoted to His Wounds:

More here: [Devotional]

• At each word that you pronounce of the Chaplet of the Holy Wounds, I allow a drop of My Blood to fall upon the soul of a sinner.
• Each time that you offer to My Father the merits of My divine Wounds, you win an immense fortune.
• Souls that will have contemplated and honored My crown of thorns on earth, will be My crown of glory in Heaven!
• I will grant all that is asked of Me through the invocation of My Holy Wounds. You will obtain everything, because it is through the merit of My Blood, which is of infinite price. With My Wounds and My Divine Heart, everything can be obtained.
• From My Wounds proceed fruits of sanctity. As gold purified in the crucible becomes more beautiful, *so you must put your soul and those of your companions *into My sacred Wounds; there they will become perfected as gold in the furnace. You can always purify yourself in My Wounds.
• My Wounds will repair yours. My Wounds will cover all your faults. Those who honor them will have a true knowledge of Jesus Christ. In meditation on them, you will always find a new love. My wounds will cover all your sins.
• Plunge your actions into My Wounds and they will be of value. All your actions, even the least, soaked in My Blood, will acquire by this alone an infinite merit and will please My Heart.
• In offering My Wounds for the conversion of sinners, even though the sinners are not converted, you will have the same merit before God as if they were.
• When you have some trouble, something to suffer, quickly place it in My Wounds, and the pain will be alleviated.
• This aspiration must often be repeated near the sick: “My Jesus, pardon and mercy through the merits of Your Holy Wounds!” This prayer will solace soul and body.
• **A sinner who will say the following prayer will obtain conversion: “Eternal Father, I offer You the Wounds of our Lord Jesus Christ to heal those of our souls.” **
• There will be no death for the soul that expires in My Holy Wounds; they give true life.
• **This chaplet is a counterpoise to My justice; it restrains My vengeance. **
• Those who pray with humility and who meditate on My Passion, will one day participate in the glory of My divine Wounds.
• The more you will have contemplated My painful Wounds on this earth, the higher will be your contemplation of them glorious in Heaven.
• The soul who during life has honored the Wounds of our Lord Jesus Christ and has offered them to the Eternal Father for the Souls in Purgatory, will be accompanied at the moment of death by the Holy Virgin and the angels; and Our Lord on the Cross, all brillant in glory, will receive her and crown her.
• The invocations of the Holy Wounds will obtain an incessant victory for the Church.

(Nihil obstat: Rev. Terry Tekippe, Censor Librorum. Imprimatur: + Most Rev. Francis B. Shulte, Archbishop of New Orleans, 29 December 1989.)

James

 

[Mattapoisett64]

Yea, dogs are round about me; a company of evildoers encircle me; they have pierced my hands and feet–I can count all my bones. (Ps 22:16-17)

Saint Bernard of Clairvaux
It is related in the annals of Clairvaux that St. Bernard asked Our Lord which was His greatest unrecorded suffering, and He answered: "I had on My Shoulder while I bore My Cross on the Way of Sorrows, a grevious Wound which was more painful than the others, and which is not recorded by men. Honor this Wound with thy devotion, and I will grant thee whatsoever thou does ask through its virtue and merit. And in regard to all those who shall venerate this wound, I will remit to them all their venial sins, and will no longer remember their mortal sins"

Prayer to the Shoulder Wound of Christ:

Most loving Jesus, meek Lamb of God, I, a miserable sinner, salute and worship the most Sacred Wound of Thy Shoulder on which Thou didst bear Thy heavy Cross which so toreThy flesh and laid bareThy Bones as to inflict on Thee an anguish greater than any other wound of Thy Most Blessed Body. I adore Thee, O Jesus most sorrowful; I praise and glorify Thee, and give The thanks for this most sacred and painful Wound, beseeching Thee by that exceeding pain, and by the crushing burden of Thy heavy Cross to be merciful to me, a sinner, to forgive me all my mortal and venial sins, and to lead me on towards Heaven along the Way of Thy Cross. Amen.

(Imprimatur: +Thomas D. Beven, Bishop of Springfield.)

Pope Eugenius III, at the earnest request of St. Bernard, granted three thousand years Indulgence to all who with a contrite heart, recite the Lord’s Prayer and the Hail Mary 3 times, in honor of the Wound on the Shoulder of Our Blessed Redeemer.

Chaplet of the Seven Wounds of Christ

James

I’m sorry, but praying to a wound? I’ve never heard of this. And how does this not confirm the misconceptions of those who claim that we Catholics “keep Christ on the cross?”

 

[CentralFLJames]

I’m sorry, but praying to a wound? I’ve never heard of this. And how does this not confirm the misconceptions of those who claim that we Catholics “keep Christ on the cross?”

*Luke 9:26
26 “For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when He comes in His glory, and the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.

Luke 9:23
And He was saying to them all, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me.

Romans 6:3
3Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
*

You have never heard of praying to the Sacred Heart of Jesus? If not, you apparently don’t know much about Catholic devotional followings do you?

This devotion to the shoulder wound of Christ is no different than praying to Jesus in a specific focus of devotion (Divine Mercy, Sacred Heart, etc.).

Hear this, no Catholic is ever justified in amending or being embarrassed to profess and promote our beloved beliefs and traditional ways of honoring Christ just to appease the ignorant fundamentalist misconceptions out there. To remove Christ from the Cross is to try to seperate Christ’s Passion from His Salvation - IMPOSSIBLE and HERESY!

By adapting an accommodating attitude that waters down our forms of devotion to Christ just to appease ignorant people’s weak and shallow understandings and misperceptions of Christology and Catholic spirituality is to compromise and bend to the errors of fractional teachings. Those who are infantile in their faith need to step up to the full offering and start maturing in their understandings.

Some non-Catholics do not like to see Christ on the cross since it forces them to face the reality that Jesus taught that to follow Christ means we are required to deny ourselves and associate with His suffering - not just an easy reward of His salvation. This is a lazy attitude of false followers and those who pay lip-service and who are not willing to walk the walk. Such are only interested in talking the talk and clapping hands while chanting “hallelujah brother”.This is an incomplete and mediocre Christian perspective and you are pandering to it by even suggesting we amend our devotional practises. Do you ever read about the prayer life and practices of the most devout saints?

By the way - we Pray to Jesus but simply honor the wound and recognize it as an expression of His love.
James

 

[Mattapoisett64]

*Luke 9:26
26 “For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when He comes in His glory, and the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.

Luke 9:23
And He was saying to them all, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily* and follow Me.

Romans 6:3
3Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?

You have never heard of praying to the Sacred Heart of Jesus? If not, you apparently don’t know much about Catholic devotional followings do you?

This devotion to the shoulder wound of Christ is no different than praying to Jesus in a specific focus of devotion (Divine Mercy, Sacred Heart, etc.).

Hear this, no Catholic is ever justified in amending or being embarrassed to profess and promote our beloved beliefs and traditional ways of honoring Christ just to appease the ignorant fundamentalist misconceptions out there. To remove Christ from the Cross is to try to seperate Christ’s Passion from His Salvation - IMPOSSIBLE and HERESY!

By adapting an accommodating attitude that waters down our forms of devotion to Christ just to appease ignorant people’s weak and shallow understandings and misperceptions of Christology and Catholic spirituality is to compromise and bend to the errors of fractional teachings. Those who are infantile in their faith need to step up to the full offering and start maturing in their understandings.

Some non-Catholics do not like to see Christ on the cross since it forces them to face the reality that Jesus taught that to follow Christ means we are required to deny ourselves and associate with His suffering - not just an easy reward of His salvation. This is a lazy attitude of false followers and those who pay lip-service and who are not willing to walk the walk. Such are only interested in talking the talk and clapping hands while chanting “hallelujah brother”.This is an incomplete and mediocre Christian perspective and you are pandering to it by even suggesting we amend our devotional practises. Do you ever read about the prayer life and practices of the most devout saints?

By the way - we Pray to Jesus but simply honor the wound and recognize it as an expression of His love.
James

After implying that I am an ignorant, heretical, weak, infantile, lazy, and unread person who is also ashamed of my faith and pandering to “incomplete Christian perspectives,” you ended up confirming what I have believed all along (and which was the basis of my question) : that we pray to Jesus, and that the imagery associated with “Sacred Heart” and “Divine Mercy” are devotional frameworks for specific aspects of Christ’s message and mercy.

I guess I should be grateful that this isn’t your week to report people to the Holy Office. Thanks so much. Do you always respond to honest questions with a torch in your hands?

 

[CentralFLJames]

After implying that I am an ignorant, heretical, weak, infantile, lazy, and unread person who is also ashamed of my faith and pandering to “incomplete Christian perspectives,” you ended up confirming what I have believed all along (and which was the basis of my question) : that we pray to Jesus, and that the imagery associated with “Sacred Heart” and “Divine Mercy” are devotional frameworks for specific aspects of Christ’s message and mercy.

I guess I should be grateful that this isn’t your week to report people to the Holy Office. Thanks so much. Do you always respond to honest questions with a torch in your hands?

No, the implications you list are directed toward non-Catholics that hold the aversion to Jesus crucified as symbolized by the crucifix. I was more explicit with you and stated that it did not appear you knew much about Catholic spirituality in the areas of the devotionals or if you did where willing to sacrifice the promulgation of this very important dimension of Catholic spirituality for the sake of making Catholicism seem less objectionable to non-Catholics. If you had read the actual prayer I took the pains to copy here rather than just the prayer title you would have seen virtually ever sentence of the prayer is directed in the esteemed name of Jesus and in recognition of the severity of His suffering for us.

I apologize for becoming emotional here but I happen to identify very passionately with Christ’s suffering at a level deeper than just text book recognition of the words “pain and suffering” for our sins. We are called to make a real connection beyond the mere adjectives and to identify and endure with Christ’s suffering at an emotional level. Your statements sounded less like inquiry as they did a grating polemic, overly sympathetic to the Protestant perspective that rubbed and opened more raw wounds that I could relate to personally. Where Christ would have just cringed and bore that sort of abrasive pain I am of course not of the same highly developed constitution of Christ and am more reflexive to strike out (as Peter was with the sword severing the servants ear). Its a fault of mine that I recognize and am working on. But the timing of the post caught me at a moment where I was coming off deep contemplation of Christ’s suffering and it made me angry that a fellow Catholic would disparage the promulgation of such a profoundly powerful devotional that needs to be practised by more people.

I apologize.

James