Cruets and Lavabo

[Needanswers]

I have several questions regarding the placement and handling of the cruets and the lavabo:

1. Where are the cruets supposed to be placed during Mass? Are they ever allowed on the altar?
2. Where is the lavabo supposed to be during Mass? Is it ever allowed on the altar?
3. What is supposed to be on the Altar just before Mass begins?

References will be very helpful!

Thanks and God Bless,

 

[sacristan1]

At our parish for the weekend masses where we have servers, everything is placed on the credence table prior to mass. NOTHING on the altar until after the offeratory when the servers bring the chalice and cups to the altar. The wine flagon is held by a server until the priest takes it and pours the wine into the chalices and cups, it is then handed back to the server. The water cruet is held by a server until the priest takes it and places water into the wine then it is handed back to the server. The cruet or flagon are never just set on the altar. The lavabo bowl is also held by a server and the towel is offered by another server. Never placed on the altar. At the chapel for weekday masses we have one priest who wants everything on the altar. The chalice, small lavabo bowl w/towel and the cruets are all placed on the altar to the right of the priest. Our pastor prefers everything on the credence table, NOTHING on the altar.

 

[DCNBILL]

At our parish for the weekend masses where we have servers, everything is placed on the credence table prior to mass. NOTHING on the altar until after the offeratory when the servers bring the chalice and cups to the altar. The wine flagon is held by a server until the priest takes it and pours the wine into the chalices and cups, it is then handed back to the server. The water cruet is held by a server until the priest takes it and places water into the wine then it is handed back to the server. The cruet or flagon are never just set on the altar. The lavabo bowl is also held by a server and the towel is offered by another server. Never placed on the altar. At the chapel for weekday masses we have one priest who wants everything on the altar. The chalice, small lavabo bowl w/towel and the cruets are all placed on the altar to the right of the priest. Our pastor prefers everything on the credence table, NOTHING on the altar.

Note that if a Book of Gospels is used at the Mass it is placed on the altar at the entrance procession and removed when it is time to read the Gospel.

 

[DeepeningFaith]

I tried posting but my computer fails. Let’s try this again!

GIRM:

1. The altar is to be covered with at least one white cloth. In addition, on or next to the altar are to be placed candlesticks with lighted candles: at least two in any celebration, or even four or six, especially for a Sunday Mass or a holy day of obligation. If the diocesan Bishop celebrates, then seven candles should be used. Also on or close to the altar, there is to be a cross with a figure of Christ crucified. The candles and the cross adorned with a figure of Christ crucified may also be carried in the Entrance Procession. On the altar itself may be placed the Book of the Gospels, distinct from the book of other readings, unless it is carried in the Entrance Procession.

1. The following are also to be prepared:

Next to the priest’s chair: the Missal and, as needed, a hymnal;

At the ambo: the Lectionary;

On the credence table: the chalice, a corporal, a purificator, and, if appropriate, the pall; the paten and, if needed, ciboria; bread for the Communion of the priest who presides, the deacon, the ministers, and the people; cruets containing the wine and the water, unless all of these are presented by the faithful in procession at the Offertory [They would then be in the back of the Church, not on the altar.]; the vessel of water to be blessed, if the asperges occurs; the Communion-plate for the Communion of the faithful; and whatever is needed for the washing of hands [This would be the lavabo, possibly an additional water cruet, and a lavabo towel] .

Let’s remember that the altar is not a workbench for Mass. It is the Altar of Sacrifice. Also, these rubrics come under the title of “Mass with a Congregation.” It presumes, as does almost all of the GIRM does, that there is an altar server/minister to assist during the Mass. So what to do if there is no server? Nothing different in regards to where things are placed, the only difference that I have seen is that the Priest may read from the Roman Missal at the altar (not sure if this is actually allowed) and move the credence table closer, if not right next to and behind the altar.

Hope this helps!

 

[Needanswers]

Thank you so much! Now I have a new question regarding placement of the Missal, but I’ll create a new thread.

God Bless

 

[mwscott]

If you were to use the hierarchy of the Extraordinary Form Masses (Low Mass, High Mass, Solemn High Mass, etc.) then in a “low” Mass with just one server the Chalice and Ciborium would be placed on the Altar, in “high Masses”, with any of the following: more servers, a procession, deacons, incense, etc., the book of the Gospels is placed on the altar and all other things are placed on the credence table.

This stems from the traditional practice of only allowing ordained ministers to touch the sacred vessels (chalice, ciborium, paten).

 

[sacristan1]

That is interesting. Thank you for that post. I am wondering about the times I have seen the altar servers carry the sacred vessels, (chalice, paten holding the presider’s host, cups) everything except the wine flagon and ciborium which are placed on the offeratory table, to the credence right before mass. Have we moved past the custom of only the ordained handling the most sacred vessels???

 

[Luger]

We also have a clear Lucite stand for our Book of Gospels to hold it up on the altar. It is removed when the book is removed.

We I serve I used two water vessels. One is a cruet for adding water to the wine. The other is an larger ewer carrying warm water for the lavabo.

 

[thomas_jd]

If the priest is celebrating Mass with only one minister, the necessary vessels may be placed at the right side of the altar.

 

[DeepeningFaith]

That is interesting. Thank you for that post. I am wondering about the times I have seen the altar servers carry the sacred vessels, (chalice, paten holding the presider’s host, cups) everything except the wine flagon and ciborium which are placed on the offeratory table, to the credence right before mass. Have we moved past the custom of only the ordained handling the most sacred vessels???

Yes we have. This was neve rthe practice of the early Christian Church. I believe this discipline cam einto being to reduce profanation of the Sacrament. It became more than that however. Part of me thinks when I serve that I shouldn’t be touching the sacred vessels, another part of me thinks it’s ok. I’ve realized that the altar server does serve at the Altar of Sacrifice. The server is the assistant to the Sacrifice. Bringing the sacred vessels can be seen as the server bringing the instruments of sacrifice to the altar. So long as there is no profanation by the server, that they don’t think it is only a cup and bowl, I see no issue. I treat the chalice with great dignity. But yes, this custom has been done away with.

If the priest is celebrating Mass with only one minister, the necessary vessels may be placed at the right side of the altar.

I take it that you are talking about a Mass with only the Priest and a minister:

GIRM:

III. MASS AT WHICH ONLY ONE MINISTER PARTICIPATES
255. Before Mass, the necessary vessels are prepared either at the credence table or on the righthand side of the altar.
256. The priest approaches the altar and, after making a profound bow along with the minister, venerates the altar with a kiss and goes to the chair. If he wishes, the priest may remain at the altar; in this case, the Missal is likewise prepared there…

Sorry for not adding this before. But please note:

1. At a Mass celebrated by a priest with only one minister to assist him and to make the responses, the rite of Mass with a congregation is followed (cf. nos. 120-169) the minister saying the people’s parts as appropriate.

This means that there is basically 1 person there for Mass besides the Priest. Also note:

1. By “Mass with a congregation” is meant a Mass celebrated with the participation of the faithful. It is moreover appropriate, whenever possible, and especially on Sundays and holy days of obligation, that the celebration of this Mass take place with singing and with a suitable number of ministers.[95] It may, however, also be celebrated without singing and with only one minister.

This shows the difference. Using the rubrics for Mass with only one Minister is a very rare occasion. In my over a decade of altar serving, I have only done this once.

I know that at daily Masses, things may be set up differently, however, if there are people in the pews, nothing is to be on the altar expect for what I mentioned before. This is my belief and interpretation. I am simply a lay person with no schooling in Liturgy, so take this all at face value, but I am certain many Priests would agree.

1. Mass should not be celebrated without a minister or at least one of the faithful, except for a just and reasonable cause.

Pax!

 

[thomas_jd]

Yes we have. This was neve rthe practice of the early Christian Church. I believe this discipline cam einto being to reduce profanation of the Sacrament. It became more than that however. Part of me thinks when I serve that I shouldn’t be touching the sacred vessels, another part of me thinks it’s ok. I’ve realized that the altar server does serve at the Altar of Sacrifice. The server is the assistant to the Sacrifice. Bringing the sacred vessels can be seen as the server bringing the instruments of sacrifice to the altar. So long as there is no profanation by the server, that they don’t think it is only a cup and bowl, I see no issue. I treat the chalice with great dignity. But yes, this custom has been done away with.

I take it that you are talking about a Mass with only the Priest and a minister:

GIRM:

Sorry for not adding this before. But please note: This means that there is basically 1 person there for Mass besides the Priest. Also note: This shows the difference. Using the rubrics for Mass with only one Minister is a very rare occasion. In my over a decade of altar serving, I have only done this once.

I know that at daily Masses, things may be set up differently, however, if there are people in the pews, nothing is to be on the altar expect for what I mentioned before. This is my belief and interpretation. I am simply a lay person with no schooling in Liturgy, so take this all at face value, but I am certain many Priests would agree.

Pax!

Mass with one minister means exactly what it says. There is no reference to congregation, but rather to the ministers/minister participating.

254.Mass should not be celebrated without a minister or at least one of the faithful, except for a just and reasonable cause.

I have participated at many masses with the gifts at the altar.

 

[Phemie]

Mass with one minister means exactly what it says. There is no reference to congregation, but rather to the ministers/minister participating.

No, it’s a Mass with only one person in attendance, the person who is serving at the altar. The GIRM states that this person makes the responses that the congregation normally would. # 257 makes it even more obvious that the minister is the only one there with the priest when it says that the priest faces the minister when he does the greeting.

1. Then the priest, standing, makes with the minister the sign of the Cross as the priest says, In nomine Patris (In the name of the Father). Facing the minister, he greets the minister choosing one of the formulas of greeting.

If there were other people in the church he would face the assembly unless he were celebrating ad orientem.

 

[DeepeningFaith]

Thanks Phemie! You clarified what I was trying to say.

I’d like to point out:

I have participated at many masses with the gifts at the altar.

This does not necessarily mean that the action of the Priest was correct. There are many examples in the L&S Forum to show that Priests do do illicit actions on occasions. I personally add not degree to an illicit action. To me there are illicit liturgical actions, and grave abuses, as spelled out in RS. I know that you may say that you will trust your Priest’s decision making over what I have said. You are entirely free to your own opinion. As I stated, this was mine and my interpretation.

Clericalism is the mentality that the Priest is never wrong. This is not always the case. Whenever I see a post that has something along the lines of “Well I have participated in Masses where _____ was done. So I know it is allowed.” I desire to point out that there is a huge difference between something being licit in regards to the rubrics, and it happening without reprocussions. Just because a blind eye is turned to something, that doesn’t mean that it is approved. I think there are many examples of this as of late in the Church.

Pax!

 

[thomas_jd]

No, it’s a Mass with only one person in attendance, the person who is serving at the altar. The GIRM states that this person makes the responses that the congregation normally would. # 257 makes it even more obvious that the minister is the only one there with the priest when it says that the priest faces the minister when he does the greeting.

If there were other people in the church he would face the assembly unless he were celebrating ad orientem.

I reread the GIRM and I stand corrected.

 

[thomas_jd]

Thanks Phemie! You clarified what I was trying to say.

I’d like to point out:

This does not necessarily mean that the action of the Priest was correct. There are many examples in the L&S Forum to show that Priests do do illicit actions on occasions. I personally add not degree to an illicit action. To me there are illicit liturgical actions, and grave abuses, as spelled out in RS. I know that you may say that you will trust your Priest’s decision making over what I have said. You are entirely free to your own opinion. As I stated, this was mine and my interpretation.

Clericalism is the mentality that the Priest is never wrong. This is not always the case. Whenever I see a post that has something along the lines of “Well I have participated in Masses where _____ was done. So I know it is allowed.” I desire to point out that there is a huge difference between something being licit in regards to the rubrics, and it happening without reprocussions. Just because a blind eye is turned to something, that doesn’t mean that it is approved. I think there are many examples of this as of late in the Church.

Pax!

Our pastor, in his later years, was unable to freely move around the altar. He also was experiencing vision problems. The cruets were placed on the altar , in the event that there was no server to assist him. A lector read the Gospel, permissible in this instance.
A replacement priest would not allow the faithful to bring the gifts , but continued with the practice of leaving the cruets on the altar. He cited the GIRM as allowing this practice and I misread #257… It has been my experience that many priests view the GIRM as " General Instructions" that can be modified.
I wish I was able to turn a “blind eye”, as you put it.

 

[DeepeningFaith]

Our pastor, in his later years, was unable to freely move around the altar. He also was experiencing vision problems. The cruets were placed on the altar , in the event that there was no server to assist him. A lector read the Gospel, permissible in this instance.
A replacement priest would not allow the faithful to bring the gifts , but continued with the practice of leaving the cruets on the altar. He cited the GIRM as allowing this practice and I misread #257… It has been my experience that many priests view the GIRM as " General Instructions" that can be modified.
I wish I was able to turn a “blind eye”, as you put it.

The blind eye that I was referring to is that of the Bishop. I wish there was no need for a blind eye to begin with. I’m glad things are clear now.

God bless!