cruise

[12345678]

Travel would be a valid reason to miss mass.

A cruise is a just or grave reason to miss Mass says… who?

A priest can give dispensation… that would be on his shoulders to make the correct judgement, but the comment that it is not even necessary to get dispensation because going on vacation/on a cruise (wait, a specific cruise that makes it impossible to attend Mass, because I have been on a cruise without missing Mass) is a serious reason enough… I am just asking for a Church document/source that supports that. I know a lot of people on here support it, I have seen different apologists with different opinions, but I was asking if there is an authorative source that supports this.

 

[12345678]

I wonder. Does this mean I can take out the boat for the weekend and miss mass? Last time I checked there is no mass offered in the Gulf of Mexico.

I was getting ready to post this, but with camping. What if I want to leave out Saturday morning drive 6 hours away from any Mass, and then come home Sunday evening, when there are no Masses around here…? (if I wait until after Mass Saturday it would be too late to go, if I come home in time for Mass Sunday I would have to leave the camp site way too early)

 

[KostyaJMJ]

I was getting ready to post this, but with camping. What if I want to leave out Saturday morning drive 6 hours away from any Mass, and then come home Sunday evening, when there are no Masses around here…? (if I wait until after Mass Saturday it would be too late to go, if I come home in time for Mass Sunday I would have to leave the camp site way too early)

You have an obligation to attend mass if there is one available. A prohibition against traveling too far from an available mass would amount to a prohibition against catholics exploring, sailing, mountaineering, hiking, spelunking…ect

 

[Owlpride]

In all seriousness, Catholic should do nothing but pray & go to church. All other activites are gravely sinful and should be avoided at all costs.

 

[aicirt]

In all seriousness, Catholic should do nothing but pray & go to church. All other activites are gravely sinful and should be avoided at all costs.

Wow! A little out there aren’t you? God created a wonderful world and you should be enjoying it. Christ did not sit down in one town and pray. He went out and met people. He went to weddings, drank wine, visited His friends and relatives, went fishing, took care of his parents, joked around, worked as a carpenter and enjoyed children. Plus we have no idea what He did between the ages of 12 and 30.

Christ chose a varied lot to be His apostles. These were men in a hard world. I don’t think they would have been easily impressed with an overly pious sanctimounious leader.

 

[12345678]

You have an obligation to attend mass if there is one available. A prohibition against traveling too far from an available mass would amount to a prohibition against catholics exploring, sailing, mountaineering, hiking, spelunking…ect

Wow! A little out there aren’t you? God created a wonderful world and you should be enjoying it. Christ did not sit down in one town and pray. He went out and met people. He went to weddings, drank wine, visited His friends and relatives, went fishing, took care of his parents, joked around, worked as a carpenter and enjoyed children. Plus we have no idea what He did between the ages of 12 and 30.

Christ chose a varied lot to be His apostles. These were men in a hard world. I don’t think they would have been easily impressed with an overly pious sanctimounious leader.

Exactly! I think Blessed JPII is an awesome example of someone who enjoyed all sorts of active lifestyle activities without leaving his obligations hanging. There is room to seek a dispensation when needed, but that does not mean we can just go around assuming the Sunday obligation is to be taken lightly. It almost seems ungrateful to think of what the early Christians went through, and even some Christians nowadays, to be able to attend Mass, and we just assume we don’t need to go if we want to go on a trip for pleasure that is in conflict with our obligation.

I do believe it is possible to participate in activities such as camping, sailing etc and still meet our obligations towards God (at least, I know of people that have done so), and if for some reasons our hobbies lead us to not be able to meet our obligations, then maybe we do need to reevaluate them.

We have to live our lives among everyone, not in a hole in the corner, but that doesn’t mean that whenever we feel like doing something that would be in conflict with our obligation to go to Mass Sunday (or Saturday evening) it is perfectly OK.

 

[Rascalking]

Wow! A little out there aren’t you? God created a wonderful world and you should be enjoying it. Christ did not sit down in one town and pray. He went out and met people. He went to weddings, drank wine, visited His friends and relatives, went fishing, took care of his parents, joked around, worked as a carpenter and enjoyed children. Plus we have no idea what He did between the ages of 12 and 30.

Christ chose a varied lot to be His apostles. These were men in a hard world. I don’t think they would have been easily impressed with an overly pious sanctimounious leader.

Owlpride was probably kidding. Key word-Probably.

 

[EasterJoy]

A cruise is a just or grave reason to miss Mass says… who?

A priest can give dispensation… that would be on his shoulders to make the correct judgement, but the comment that it is not even necessary to get dispensation because going on vacation/on a cruise (wait, a specific cruise that makes it impossible to attend Mass, because I have been on a cruise without missing Mass) is a serious reason enough… I am just asking for a Church document/source that supports that. I know a lot of people on here support it, I have seen different apologists with different opinions, but I was asking if there is an authorative source that supports this.

Obviously, there is no precept binding the faithful to do the impossible. Romans do not write laws like that. The faithful, for instance, are not required to live in places where Mass is offered on a regular basis. The church can’t always come to you, and obviously you can’t always make it to church. So obviously it is within the purview of the faithful to recognize when something that is otherwise required is impossible.

A priest acting within the prescripts of his bishop has the authority to grant dispensations. It is not rare for bishops to find travel a just cause for missing Mass on Sunday, particularly if the absence is not in any way habitual:

**Can. 1245 **Without prejudice to the right of diocesan bishops mentioned in ⇒ can. 87, for a just cause and according to the prescripts of the diocesan bishop, a pastor can grant in individual cases a dispensation from the obligation of observing a feast day or a day of penance or can grant a commutation of the obligation into other pious works. A superior of a religious institute or society of apostolic life, if they are clerical and of pontifical right, can also do this in regard to his own subjects and others living in the house day and night.

Now, that is not to say that the faithful do not have an obligation to abstain from affairs that hinder worship. We do. It is to say that a bishop may find travel a just cause to miss Mass, when missing Mass cannot be helped, and so he may direct his priests to give dispensations accordingly.

Even where a dispensation is proper, Catholics are strongly encouraged to observe Sunday as he or she can, under the circumstances:
**Can. 1248 §2. **If participation in the eucharistic celebration becomes impossible because of the absence of a sacred minister or for another grave cause, it is strongly recommended that the faithful take part in a liturgy of the word if such a liturgy is celebrated in a parish church or other sacred place according to the prescripts of the diocesan bishop or that they devote themselves to prayer for a suitable time alone, as a family, or, as the occasion permits, in groups of families.

When a member of the faithful is in doubt about what is possible or not or what is a just cause or not…well, that is why we have pastors. We can ask.

 

[bluerose]

I have been on two Holland America cruises. The most recent in November, 2011. There was a Priest on board both times and both daily and Sunday Mass was offered. Sunday Mass was very well attended.
Enjoy!

Was that the winemakers’ cruise to the Carribbean? If so, I was supposed to have won a spot on that trip (but the contest sponsor didn’t book enough reservations ) We’re supposed to go THIS year!

 

[12345678]

Obviously, there is no precept binding the faithful to do the impossible. Romans do not write laws like that. The faithful, for instance, are not required to live in places where Mass is offered on a regular basis. The church can’t always come to you, and obviously you can’t always make it to church. So obviously it is within the purview of the faithful to recognize when something that is otherwise required is impossible.

A priest acting within the prescripts of his bishop has the authority to grant dispensations. It is not rare for bishops to find travel a just cause for missing Mass on Sunday, particularly if the absence is not in any way habitual:

**Can. 1245 **Without prejudice to the right of diocesan bishops mentioned in ⇒ can. 87, for a just cause and according to the prescripts of the diocesan bishop, a pastor can grant in individual cases a dispensation from the obligation of observing a feast day or a day of penance or can grant a commutation of the obligation into other pious works. A superior of a religious institute or society of apostolic life, if they are clerical and of pontifical right, can also do this in regard to his own subjects and others living in the house day and night.

Now, that is not to say that the faithful do not have an obligation to abstain from affairs that hinder worship. We do. It is to say that a bishop may find travel a just cause to miss Mass, when missing Mass cannot be helped, and so he may direct his priests to give dispensations accordingly.

Even where a dispensation is proper, Catholics are strongly encouraged to observe Sunday as he or she can, under the circumstances:
**Can. 1248 §2. **If participation in the eucharistic celebration becomes impossible because of the absence of a sacred minister or for another grave cause, it is strongly recommended that the faithful take part in a liturgy of the word if such a liturgy is celebrated in a parish church or other sacred place according to the prescripts of the diocesan bishop or that they devote themselves to prayer for a suitable time alone, as a family, or, as the occasion permits, in groups of families.

When a member of the faithful is in doubt about what is possible or not or what is a just cause or not…well, that is why we have pastors. We can ask.

Exactly, no precept to do the impossible, and the Church is very wise in allowing the dispensation if needed, but it still doesn’t say that we can go any any trip willy nilly and assume we don’t have the obligation because the trip we chose is not compatible with the obligation.

I agree with finding a good priest whose judgement you trust and asking them when in doubt. And if you feel you have a good reason to miss Mass then definitely ask your pastor about dispensation.

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

What do you mean by “willy nilly?” I don’t think anyone chooses a $5,000 cruise so they can rub their hands together and say “Gee, now I don’t have to go to Mass!” There is no reason to believe the Church forbids us from visiting areas of the planet where no Mass is available or assumes we do so for the purpose of violating the Sunday obligation. Any trip or vacation to an area so remote almost by definition requires significant planning, preparation, arrangements, and expense – hardly something undertaken “willy nilly.”

 

[KostyaJMJ]

What do you mean by “willy nilly?” I don’t think anyone chooses a $5,000 cruise so they can rub their hands together and say “Gee, now I don’t have to go to Mass!”

Well I know I would.

But then again I enjoy the flu as long as it comes on a Sunday.

 

[Luvz2travel]

Can I take a cruise for vacation knowing that it will be not mass on sundays on board?

Just don’t go on an Italian boat and you’ll do fine.

 

[GEddie]

Just don’t go on an Italian boat and you’ll do fine.

Here’s where all the Italian ship captain jokes begin…,…,

 

[EasterJoy]

Exactly, no precept to do the impossible, and the Church is very wise in allowing the dispensation if needed, but it still doesn’t say that we can go any any trip willy nilly and assume we don’t have the obligation because the trip we chose is not compatible with the obligation.

I agree with finding a good priest whose judgement you trust and asking them when in doubt. And if you feel you have a good reason to miss Mass then definitely ask your pastor about dispensation.

Good grief. The OP did not ask if it was permissible to make one’s vacation plans precisely so as to evade the obligation to attend Sunday Mass. Who would ask a question like that, and excuse me, but what kind of a fool would think they were pulling the wool over God’s eyes by doing so? I don’t doubt that someone somewhere has actually convinced himself to try to run this gambit on Heaven, but the whole idea is silly.

The OP was asking if a travel iternary needs to be automatically disqualified because it does not *appear *to allow an opportunity to attend Sunday Mass. The answer is no. While we are bound to make a reasonable effort to attend Mass and ought to take that obligation seriously, the absence of an available Sunday Mass does not constitute an automatic disqualification for a planned course of action, even if one is going so far as to choose where to live.

It is commendable to make one’s vacation plans so as to always include Sunday Mass, but the binding obligation to attend Mass when possible does not mean that one may not engage in any activities that one knows will render fulfillment of the obligation impossible.

Having said that, I was taught to ask one’s pastor for a dispensation whenever one was faced with such a choice, so that the discretion of the primary physician of one’s soul was always involved in the choice. Not only is this practice implied in canon law, but IMHO it is just a common-sense safeguard against sloth and self-deception.

 

[EasterJoy]

Well I know I would.

But then again I enjoy the flu as long as it comes on a Sunday.

Be careful what you ask for!

 

[LightBound]

Wow! A little out there aren’t you? God created a wonderful world and you should be enjoying it. Christ did not sit down in one town and pray. He went out and met people. He went to weddings, drank wine, visited His friends and relatives, went fishing, took care of his parents, joked around, worked as a carpenter and enjoyed children. Plus we have no idea what He did between the ages of 12 and 30.

Christ chose a varied lot to be His apostles. These were men in a hard world. I don’t think they would have been easily impressed with an overly pious sanctimounious leader.

He’s joking! See his other posts…just has an extremely dry sense of humor and an apparent aversion to using emoticons to show other CAF members that his comments such as this one (and the hilarious one on dating) are just poking fun at some of the over-scrupulous people that have been known to post some oddities!

 

[KostyaJMJ]

Be careful what you ask for!

I know. God has a wicked sense of humor.

It would be a lot easier to miss mass for a valid reason if I didn’t enjoy not going so much.

 

[EasterJoy]

I know. God has a wicked sense of humor.

It would be a lot easier to miss mass for a valid reason if I didn’t enjoy not going so much.

I’ve heard about cases like you. Keep up with the cleverness, and you’ll wake up in the seminary!

 

[12345678]

Lol,oh sorry, I didn’t mean that people go on cruises (nor catch the flu) just to miss Mass, my bad for not being clear!

Hahaha… yeah, good suggestion on skipping out on Italian cruises with captains that trip into lifeboats (although maybe they do offer Mass on those)…