"Crumbs that fall from the Master's table" theology?

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reen12

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I am about to express a highly negative view of the
writings of Saul of Tarsus, aka St. Paul.

I came upon a reference, today, that there is a group which
says that a Catholic may find sanctity - “without abandoning secular life.”
I find that an odd way of thinking.

Jesus, Joseph and Mary lived family life, and kept the Mosaic Law.

Whence comes this thought that - hundreds of millions
of Catholics, worldwide - can “attain sanctity,” praise be! -
without entering an abbey or the clerical life?

The “crumbs that fall from the Master’s table” theology, :confused:
vocationally speaking?

Part of the problem, with the Roman church, is this caste system - where one vocation is considered higher - and more blessed - by God. What an odd thought, I find. Perhaps this is why, in principle, I am far more akin to Judaic thought. In Judaism, priestly rank was a matter of birth into the Aaronic tribe.
These priests married and raised a family. e.g., the father of John the Baptist.]

Jews born into another tribe were not considered “runners-up”- in the sanctity sweepstakes.

But now, for Catholics - here’s our chance. You too! can be holy, even in “secular life.”

God told Adam and Eve “Go forth, and multiply.”

Then we have this individual, Saul, speaking of “it’s better to marry than to burn.”

How jolly of him. [A direct contradiction to God’s command to Adam and Eve, to go forth and to “increase and multiply.”]
Mere detail, right? All changed with the New Covenant?

I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn. [Ephesians 7: 7-8]

And this is considered Holy Writ! First, Saul is all gung-ho to defend Judaic beliefs. Then he has an “episode” - on the way to persecute the new Christians.
He then makes a bootleggers turn, and joins the rank of Christians, becoming a champion of the new religion.
We would not have to look too far - in the roster of symptoms of psychological impairment - to find an apt description of such “change in direction.” It is refered to, in Christianity,
as a ‘conversion.’ I think it more ‘conversion hysteria.’
And now he wants to lecture others on marriage! Good grief.

And 'twas Paul who ‘introduced’ the concept of “Original Sin” -
and who maundered on about a “thorn” in his side. Maybe that’s why he came up with Original Sin. That way,* whatever *his trouble was, it was not his fault. That pesky original sin could be blamed.

As to the “caste” system:

When I was a kid, I thought it odd, that my mother -
taking care of 3 little kids, had to fast in Lent - while the priest
in the rectory had a housekeeper to prepare his meals and do his laundry.

He did not have to do these chores for himself - while my mother
had to do chores for all five in our family. Father gets served by
his housekeeper, Mom works and works. He is served his fasting meal, Mom had to make her own. What a complete farce. I did not know the word farce, as a kid. I only knew that there was something very wrong about all of this. I didn’t know the word 'hypocrite" either.

But I do, now.

reen12 :coffeeread:
 
I am about to express a highly negative view of the
writings of Saul of Tarsus, aka St. Paul.

I came upon a reference, today, that there is a group which
says that a Catholic may find sanctity - “without abandoning secular life.”
I find that an odd way of thinking.

Jesus, Joseph and Mary lived family life, and kept the Mosaic Law.

Whence comes this thought that - hundreds of millions
of Catholics, worldwide - can “attain sanctity,” praise be! -
without entering an abbey or the clerical life?

The “crumbs that fall from the Master’s table” theology, :confused:
vocationally speaking?

Part of the problem, with the Roman church, is this caste system - where one vocation is considered higher - and more blessed - by God. What an odd thought, I find. Perhaps this is why, in principle, I am far more akin to Judaic thought. In Judaism, priestly rank was a matter of birth into the Aaronic tribe.
These priests married and raised a family. e.g., the father of John the Baptist.]

Jews born into another tribe were not considered “runners-up”- in the sanctity sweepstakes.

But now, for Catholics - here’s our chance. You too! can be holy, even in “secular life.”

God told Adam and Eve “Go forth, and multiply.”

Then we have this individual, Saul, speaking of “it’s better to marry than to burn.”

How jolly of him. [A direct contradiction to God’s command to Adam and Eve, to go forth and to “increase and multiply.”]
Mere detail, right? All changed with the New Covenant?

I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn. [Ephesians 7: 7-8]

And this is considered Holy Writ! First, Saul is all gung-ho to defend Judaic beliefs. Then he has an “episode” - on the way to persecute the new Christians.
He then makes a bootleggers turn, and joins the rank of Christians, becoming a champion of the new religion.
We would not have to look too far - in the roster of symptoms of psychological impairment - to find an apt description of such “change in direction.” It is refered to, in Christianity,
as a ‘conversion.’ I think it more ‘conversion hysteria.’
And now he wants to lecture others on marriage! Good grief.

And 'twas Paul who ‘introduced’ the concept of “Original Sin” -
and who maundered on about a “thorn” in his side. Maybe that’s why he came up with Original Sin. That way,* whatever *his trouble was, it was not his fault. That pesky original sin could be blamed.

As to the “caste” system:

When I was a kid, I thought it odd, that my mother -
taking care of 3 little kids, had to fast in Lent - while the priest
in the rectory had a housekeeper to prepare his meals and do his laundry.

He did not have to do these chores for himself - while my mother
had to do chores for all five in our family. Father gets served by
his housekeeper, Mom works and works. He is served his fasting meal, Mom had to make her own. What a complete farce. I did not know the word farce, as a kid. I only knew that there was something very wrong about all of this. I didn’t know the word 'hypocrite" either.

But I do, now.

reen12 :coffeeread:
Sorry but to my simple mind the above is incomprehensible. Do you have a question or point to make and if so, can you do plainly?
 
Whence comes this thought that - hundreds of millions
of Catholics, worldwide - can “attain sanctity,” praise be! -
without entering an abbey or the clerical life?

We can attain sanctity by infused grace,which helps us to keep the commandments.

Part of the problem, with the Roman church, is this caste system - where one vocation is considered higher - and more blessed - by God. What an odd thought, I find.

The heirarchy in the clergy doesn’t necessarily mean that one clerical office is more blessed than another.
Perhaps this is why, in principle, I am far more akin to Judaic thought. In Judaism, priestly rank was a matter of birth into the Aaronic tribe.
These priests married and raised a family. e.g., the father of John the Baptist.]

Do you think that an inherited priestly rank is better than being called to the priesthood by the grace of God?

Jews born into another tribe were not considered “runners-up”- in the sanctity sweepstakes.

But now, for Catholics - here’s our chance. You too! can be holy, even in “secular life.”

Inner holiness and being a priest are two different things.

God told Adam and Eve “Go forth, and multiply.”

Then we have this individual, Saul, speaking of “it’s better to marry than to burn.”

He means that it is better to marry than to be tormented by sexual desire.

How jolly of him. [A direct contradiction to God’s command to Adam and Eve, to go forth and to “increase and multiply.”]
Mere detail, right? All changed with the New Covenant?

How does what Paul said about it being better to marry contradict God’s command to increase and multiply?
No – celibacy is not for everybody.

I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn. [Ephesians 7: 7-8]

And this is considered Holy Writ! First, Saul is all gung-ho to defend Judaic beliefs. Then he has an “episode” - on the way to persecute the new Christians.
He then makes a bootleggers turn, and joins the rank of Christians, becoming a champion of the new religion.
We would not have to look too far - in the roster of symptoms of psychological impairment - to find an apt description of such “change in direction.” It is refered to, in Christianity,
as a ‘conversion.’ I think it more ‘conversion hysteria.’

What must you think of Moses and the other prophets?

And now he wants to lecture others on marriage! Good grief.

And 'twas Paul who ‘introduced’ the concept of “Original Sin” -
and who maundered on about a “thorn” in his side. Maybe that’s why he came up with Original Sin. That way,* whatever *his trouble was, it was not his fault. That pesky original sin could be blamed.

Even the Jews believed that man’s heart was from youth inclined toward evil. That goes back to the sin of Adam and fallen human nature.

As to the “caste” system:

When I was a kid, I thought it odd, that my mother -
taking care of 3 little kids, had to fast in Lent - while the priest
in the rectory had a housekeeper to prepare his meals and do his laundry.

He did not have to do these chores for himself - while my mother
had to do chores for all five in our family. Father gets served by
his housekeeper, Mom works and works. He is served his fasting meal, Mom had to make her own. What a complete farce. I did not know the word farce, as a kid. I only knew that there was something very wrong about all of this. I didn’t know the word 'hypocrite" either.

What does that have to do with hypocricy? That’s just a traditional familiy arrangement.
 
Very few priests have house keepers. Every priest I know (save the Jesuits, who live in community) make their own meals and work often to the point of exaustion.
 
Whence comes this thought that - hundreds of millions
of Catholics, worldwide - can “attain sanctity,” praise be! -
without entering an abbey or the clerical life?

Part of the problem, with the Roman church, is this caste system - where one vocation is considered higher - and more blessed - by God. What an odd thought, I find.
We are all called to sanctity as followers of Christ. We can achieve varying levels of it, depending on our devotion to prayer, reading the scriptures, receiving the sacraments and God’s grace.

I don’t think one vocation is considered higher or more blessed than another – they are just different vocations. Some people are called to marriage and family life, to shepherd their children; others are called to shepherd entire parishes of people.
1 Corinthians 12
Spiritual Gifts: Unity in Diversity
4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same** Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.
Unity and Diversity in One Body

12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into[c] one Spirit. 14 For in fact the body is not one member but many.
15 If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I am not of the body,” is it therefore not of the body? 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I am not of the body,” is it therefore not of the body? 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would be the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where would be the smelling? 18 But now God has set the members, each one of them, in the body just as He pleased. 19 And if they were all one member, where would the body be?
20 But now indeed there are many members, yet one body. 21 And the eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you”; nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” 22 No, much rather, those members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary. 23 And those members of the body which we think to be less honorable, on these we bestow greater honor; and our unpresentable parts have greater modesty, 24 but our presentable parts have no need. But God composed the body, having given greater honor to that part which lacks it, 25 that there should be no schism in the body, but that the members should have the same care for one another. 26 And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; or if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. 28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the best[d] gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.**
I hope this helps. 🙂 :hug1:
Very few priests have house keepers. Every priest I know (save the Jesuits, who live in community) make their own meals and work often to the point of exaustion.

Ditto. 👍
 
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