Crumbs

  • Thread starter Thread starter inmaddfox
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I

inmaddfox

Guest
In the Roman Church it is hard enough to keep tract of crumbs that may fall from the Consicrated Host. With the Roman Rite using unlevened bread the amount of crumbs to worry about are minimal. With the Eastern Church using leven bread, it looks like it could be a nightmare trying to contain the crumbs and since each and every crumb is the full Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus, it seems an impossible task. How do you handle this problem.

Thanks
Mike
 
While I can’t speak of how the priest deals with the issue, I can speak of it from the perspective of a layman. The priest breaks up the main piece of bread which has been consecrated and puts it in the chalice. He then communes the faithful with a spoon, scooping out a portion of the body with the blood. There are therefore no crumbs for the laity to come into contact with. I’ve observed the priest sweeping the crumbs from the paten where the body lay into the chalice, then drinking the body and blood together. Does that make sense? It’s a bit difficult to picture if you’ve never seen it.
 
I should have also mentioned that the altar boys (i.e. acolytes) hold a cloth underneath your chin to catch any of the body and blood that might accidently fall.
 
To what dcointin has said I’ll add that the bread is very, very dense. It doesn’t crumble (if it’s made right) very easily, and then when it’s added to the wine that acts like a ‘glue’ holding everything together.
 
We attended a RC parish that used bread (unleavened but made by parishioners). That bread actually looked a lot like the communion bread used in our Byzantine mission. The bread is in small round loaves about five inches in diameter and no more than 3/4 of an inch thick which is why there are no crumbs. Since the body and blood are served together there are no crumbs. As noted the altar servers hold a cloth under the chin of each person receiving communion so there is no possibility of any of the elements falling on the floor. This is far more of a precaution than has ever been used in any RC church I have been in since the use of the patent was discontinued.

By the way, the Polish National Catholic Church uses hosts and in-tincture but even they still hold the patent under the chin of the communicant.

The best thing to do is attend an Eastern Catholic liturgy and take communion. You will be doubly blessed since you will receive both the body and blood of Jesus and the answer to your question.
 
The cutting up of the bread is done before its consecrated. Also since the Body of our Lord is placed into the Blood, there won’t be any crumbs as the intincted Host would stick together. Try dipping bread into any liquid and you’ll see (or better yet try dipping bread in wine). If there’s any crumbs at all it would be on the altar where the priest places the Precious Body into the Precious Blood. If there is any, the priest would spot it immediately.
 
As far as the communion of the faithful goes, the remarks already made are fine. However, during the fraction, it is another story,
  1. As dense as the bread is, it makes crumbs, lots of crumbs. If you are not at the altar, just look at the residue in the antidoron basket.
  2. The fraction is to supposed to be done after the consecration, at jedin svjat. Great care is taken to transfer all of particles and crumbs to the chalice.
  3. However, much care is taken it must be admitted that it is pretty much physically impossible to avoid missing some small number of the smallest particles, especially those embedded, for example, in the sponge.
  4. Perhaps, just perhaps, the idea of using particles cut before consecration - the infamous pre-cut particles - arose out of concern about cutting the consecrated lamb , especially since the restoration of frequent communion, which means that there is a lot of cutting to do.
From previous discussions on this point, I am not entirely sure how this problem is handled. However, my experience is the OCA is that a priest who mishandles the Eucharist, will not only make great efforts to collect everything (even cutting out a piece carpet), and will be suspended and fined by the bishop to underscore the seriousness of the matter.
 
Your right about the fraction rite. Although the bread is fractioned atop the diskos or even the chalice so any particle fall down there. And of course the priest/bishop would be careful enough that they don’t break apart the bread to forcefully that particles fly off.
 
Dear brother RCMico,
RCMico said:
The best thing to do is attend an Eastern Catholic liturgy and take communion. You will be doubly blessed since you will receive both the body and blood of Jesus and the answer to your question.
Click to expand...
To be perfectly fair, Latin Catholics believe they are receiving BOTH the Body and the Blood by recieving EITHER the Bread OR the Wine.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
mardukm said:
Dear brother RCMico,

To be perfectly fair, Latin Catholics believe they are receiving BOTH the Body and the Blood by recieving EITHER the Bread OR the Wine.

Blessings,
Marduk
Click to expand...
I think (although I could be wrong) that RCMico meant that the OP would be doubly blessed by going to an EC liturgy because he would receive both the Eucharist and the answer to his question. That’s how I read it, at any rate.
 
NinjaSnark said:
I think (although I could be wrong) that RCMico meant that the OP would be doubly blessed by going to an EC liturgy because he would receive both the Eucharist and the answer to his question. That’s how I read it, at any rate.
Click to expand...
Or that.😃

Thanks.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
mardukm said:
Dear brother RCMico,

To be perfectly fair, Latin Catholics believe they are receiving BOTH the Body and the Blood by recieving EITHER the Bread OR the Wine.

Blessings,
Marduk
Click to expand...
And to be perfectly accurate, the Church never teaches that you are double blessed for receiving under both species. There’s no such thing as getting “more Jesus”.
 
RCMico said:
We attended a RC parish that used bread (unleavened but made by parishioners). That bread actually looked a lot like the communion bread used in our Byzantine mission. The bread is in small round loaves about five inches in diameter and no more than 3/4 of an inch thick which is why there are no crumbs. Since the body and blood are served together there are no crumbs. As noted the altar servers hold a cloth under the chin of each person receiving communion so there is no possibility of any of the elements falling on the floor. This is far more of a precaution than has ever been used in any RC church I have been in since the use of the patent was discontinued.

By the way, the Polish National Catholic Church uses hosts and in-tincture but even they still hold the patent under the chin of the communicant.

The best thing to do is attend an Eastern Catholic liturgy and take communion. You will be doubly blessed since you will receive both the body and blood of Jesus and the answer to your question.
Click to expand...
It is my understanding that it is fine with the RC Church if a RC attends an Eastern Catholic liturgy, but not so okay with the Eastern Church.
 
inmaddfox said:
It is my understanding that it is fine with the RC Church if a RC attends an Eastern Catholic liturgy, but not so okay with the Eastern Church.
Click to expand...
You know, ever since we have been able to receive the Holy Eucharist in the hand there have been problems. Consecrated hosts have been found on the floor, in the book racks in the pews, and so on. As an Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion I had to talk to a person that I observed putting the Holy Eucharist in his pocket. I did this directly after mass. The person said he consumed the Host after he got back to his pew.Of course I told him he can’t do that. I am really in favor of the RC Church going to INTINCTION, where the Communicant no longer would touch the Host, only Ministers of Holy Communion.The RC Church doesn’t want to do this because they say it would take away the receiving of the host in the hand. Well as I have said there have been too many problems the way it is now. This also includes people taking a Host for Sitanic services. That really amazes me because it seems to me they must somehow believe in the real presence of Our Lord in the Eucharist.
 
inmaddfox said:
It is my understanding that it is fine with the RC Church if a RC attends an Eastern Catholic liturgy, but not so okay with the Eastern Church.
Click to expand...
If Im reading your post correctly youre saying that a Latin Catholic may receive in an Eastern Catholic Church but it might not be fine with the Eastern Catholic Church. If you are referrring to the Orthodox Church then youre right, but youre wrong if you are referring to any of the Eastern Catholic Churchs in communion with Rome. Its fine if Latin Catholics receive in the Eastern Catholic Churchs and its fine if Eastern Catholic`s receive at the Latin Catholic Church!
 
When I was a Lutheran in the pre-seminary program, our director related a story about why the practice of giving communion was changed in the from in the hand to in the mouth. Priests found that the laity held superstitious views about the Eucharist, and believed it could miraculously cure disease, so they would take it, pretend to eat it, bring it home and feed it to sick cattle!
 
kitkatty said:
If Im reading your post correctly youre saying that a Latin Catholic may receive in an Eastern Catholic Church but it might not be fine with the Eastern Catholic Church. If you are referrring to the Orthodox Church then youre right, but youre wrong if you are referring to any of the Eastern Catholic Churchs in communion with Rome. Its fine if Latin Catholics receive in the Eastern Catholic Churchs and its fine if Eastern Catholic`s receive at the Latin Catholic Church!
Click to expand...
That’s right. Any Catholic, regardless of rite, may receive communion at any Catholic parish.
 
inmaddfox said:
You know, ever since we have been able to receive the Holy Eucharist in the hand there have been problems. Consecrated hosts have been found on the floor, in the book racks in the pews, and so on. As an Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion I had to talk to a person that I observed putting the Holy Eucharist in his pocket. I did this directly after mass. The person said he consumed the Host after he got back to his pew.Of course I told him he can’t do that. I am really in favor of the RC Church going to INTINCTION, where the Communicant no longer would touch the Host, only Ministers of Holy Communion.The RC Church doesn’t want to do this because they say it would take away the receiving of the host in the hand. Well as I have said there have been too many problems the way it is now. This also includes people taking a Host for Sitanic services. That really amazes me because it seems to me they must somehow believe in the real presence of Our Lord in the Eucharist.
Click to expand...
Perhaps some of our Latin brethren can clarify, but I though it was a rule that when CITH is practiced, the Host must be consumed in front of the minister, or at least while still at the foot of the altar.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top