crusade;why some ppl thought it as a violence?

[morning_star777]

the crusade occured against the muslim caliphat.now many christians feel shame for it.but if crusader wanted back their land from muslims how can it inhuman?muslims always proclaimed jihad againt not muslim if it was fare to them so why crusade was unfair?

 

[ralphinal]

Let me put this into modern terms.

Imagine a nation invaded another country. NOw, the people of that country called out for the UN to do something. The UN called upon the invader to leave at once. They do not. The UN then calls for sanctions. It does not matter. Finally, the UN allows for force to solve the problem. They send in an army and drive the invador out. That is how it is supposed to work. It never does. In reality, the UN cannot do squat. A coalition of nations, generally headed by US forces invades and fights. We get blamed for being oppressors and making ourselves police of the world and the UN acts like it did its job.

Here is how the Crusades occured. A nation, the Muslim Caliphate, invaded the Holy Land. The Christians there called for help. the Muslims would not negotiate. The pope called for all Christians to help the oppressed people of Palestine. No problem, right? Well, as time went on, some of the Crusades overstepped the job. Constantinople was sacked, for no reason. There were widespread abuses.

The need was there, the execution was bad. I will not apologise for defending the faith. I will for performing evil acts.

 

[1ke]

the crusade occured against the muslim caliphat.now many christians feel shame for it.but if crusader wanted back their land from muslims how can it inhuman?muslims always proclaimed jihad againt not muslim if it was fare to them so why crusade was unfair?

You are correct. The Crusades were called to defend Christians and repel the invading Muslims.

You are also correct that many people misunderstand the Crusades and are ‘ashamed’ of them-- but there is no need to be ashamed.

 

[Hesychios]

We must be careful not to over simplify this topic. The whole thing is so complex, and with so many separate events and participants that it cannot even possibly be discussed in one thread.

The crusading era was more than just the middle east, and much more than just fighting Muslims. There were crusades into eastern Europe and against religious dissenters in the west. There was the long running crusade to conquer Spain, and the conquest of Sicily and Malta could probably be considered likewise.

But most people think automatically of the Crusades in the east.

By the time of the Crusades, the Muslims had been resident in the Holy Land for some three hundred years at least. They were not “invaders” at that point, many (if not most) of them were descendants of the original inhabitants of Palestine, with some Christian and Jewish ancestry as well as some Arabic.

The actual events that touched off the Crusades were persecution by a Caliph Hakim, it lasted ten years and resulted in a lot of destruction of churches. Especially notable being the fate of the great church of the Resurrection (called the Holy Sepulchre in the west).

By the time of the launching of Crusades it was all over, another local regime was in place and the situation was fairly normal, churches were being rebuilt, etc.

I think that the original motivation, supplied by Pope Urban, was noble enough, but the people who (by and large) answered the call were not the flower of Christianity, and they were (by and large) very greedy, cruel and triumphalistic.

Pope Urban responded to a request for mercenaries by the Byzantine emperor. The territory of the Holy Land was Byzantine-Roman/Christian before the coming of the Muslims, he hoped that a supply of mercenaries from the west supporting his own professional military would make it possible to drive the Muslims out of important cities and (hopefully) down the Mediterranean coast to Egypt.

The Crusades were more than he asked for, and even after vowing to serve under the Byzantine banners the Crusading leadership acted quite independently, eventually abandoning all pretense and declaring themselve sovereign powers.

Their own natural allies should have been the local Christians, and they initially received cooperation from these people. They made a terrible mess of it, alienating everyone.

Michael

 

[Crusader4Jesus]

The Crusades were fror the protection of people (and most importantly their souls) it was necessary to have the Crusades to prevent the spread of the sword of Islam against the ‘infidels’ throughout Europe. Instead of defending the Crusades against those who think it was an error of the Church,(although its impossible as she is infallible in her decisions in faith and morals) we should ask the critics whether they like the freedom they have today due to the sacrifice that our Catholic forefathers made for us those centuries ago for Christ.

If anyone is interested in joining a new one, an online Catholic Crusade to spread the Gospel and refute error, then please pray and consider it, dont need to be an expert by any means, all thats wanted is just a willingness and a love of our Lord and a desire to share that.
because…

:knight1:


The Catholic Crusade for Jesus Christ wants you!!

%between%

(click the above links or PM me for more details)
God bless you all.

 

[morning_star777]

welcome crusadar4jesus,i like ur user ID.believe me we really need true crusaders against those jihadist.but who will crusade for our lord jesus?day by day western country christians faith are declining i think.neither why some christian leave their religion just for marriage?but i desperately want a reall crusade.but i can’t do anything except pray.jesus bless you.

 

[rpp]

Crusader4Jesus, Based on your rude, very disturbing and quite offensive picture which you have put on every one of your posts, you can be certain that I would never involve myself in and project you are affiliated with.

 

[Sepharad]

the crusade occured against the muslim caliphat.now many christians feel shame for it.but if crusader wanted back their land from muslims how can it inhuman?muslims always proclaimed jihad againt not muslim if it was fare to them so why crusade was unfair?

When Pope Urban II called the Crusade the first time, many uneducated, ignorant people from the masses joined in because they were promised forgiveness for sins if they did it.

Sadly, as they ventured to the Near East, they slaughtered and otherwise abused many Jewish communities in France and Germany as well.

More info: aish.com/literacy/jewishhistory/Crash_Course_in_Jewish_History_Part_45_-_The_Crusades.asp

 

[morning_star777]

hello crusadar,can you send me the web address via PM?i tried to send u PM but your only contact information is contact via mail.thanks

 

[morning_star777]

Sadly, as they ventured to the Near East, they slaughtered and otherwise abused many Jewish communities in France and Germany as well.

actually crusade had been declared against inhuman muslim caliphate.but i agree that some crusaders
did wrong with innocent jewish ppl.we apologize for that.I believe that our church never ordered crusaders to fight against innocent jews.but unfortunately some crusaders did it.

 

[Contarini]

the crusade occured against the muslim caliphat.now many christians feel shame for it.but if crusader wanted back their land from muslims how can it inhuman?muslims always proclaimed jihad againt not muslim if it was fare to them so why crusade was unfair?

There are a number of logical problems with the way you are putting this. Obviously the crusades were violent. They were military operations, which are by definition violent. Whether this use of force was unjustified is another question. The crusaders were not winning back “their” lands from the Muslims, unless you want to argue that the Holy Land was rightfully the property of the Catholic Church, which I think is a highly dubious argument. The legitimate purpose of the Crusades was to defend the Eastern Empire. But in fact the Crusades did not do this–in the end the Fourth Crusade actually sacked Constantinople. From a purely pragmatic basis, the use of violence in a righteous cause is highly dubious. From the point of view of the Christian ideals that the Crusades invoked, it is probably blasphemous. We do not “take the Cross” by riding out to smite the unbeliever. We take the Cross the same way Jesus did–by refusing to do violence in God’s name.

That being said, the Muslims have no legitimate reason to complain of the Crusades as some kind of imperialistic aggression. They were indeed a counterattack against centuries of Islamic jihad.

Edwin

 

[Crusader4Jesus]

Crusader4Jesus, Based on your rude, very disturbing and quite offensive picture which you have put on every one of your posts, you can be certain that I would never involve myself in and project you are affiliated with.

Hello RPP, i’m sorry if you took offense to my post, I’m very sorry as thats the last thing I wanted to do. All I am attempting to do is catch the eye of any readers, incase they are interested in joining in the evangelizing of Catholicism, the Crusade is 100% fully for the Roman Catholic faith if thats what you implied, once again I’m sorry for any offense, I have another image that I would consider using if you decided it better. Please don’t view the Crusade in a bad light because of any of my posts, I am just a new member of it, and pray about it, if you don’t feel called to spread the Gospel via the Crusade, then please pray for our efforts.
Thank you and may God bless you.
In Christ.

The Catholic Crusade for Jesus Christ wants you

poyntsource.com/IOTAmanual/Preview_files/Pointing_Finger.jpg

(this is an alternative picture, do you think this would be more suitable?)

 

[rpp]

Crusader4Jesus,

Changing your photo to a line drawing does nothing to make it any less offensive.

You do not see anyone else posting pictures like this. Especially that size.

Furthermore your presumption that Catholic here are somehow complacent in the faith and that only you, by being aggressive and offensive can change us is , at best, great hubris.

You will find that that utter lack of humility and aggressive style will make you very unpopular here.

Congratulations, you have just set the record for the fewest number of posts to get added to my Ignore list.

 

[Crusader4Jesus]

Once again Rpp, I am sorry for having offended you, you are mistaken if you believe that I think that there is a lax of faith in Catholics here, it is exactly why I know that Catholics here have a strong faith is why I am posting. The Crusade is not for this forum, it is for areas of the internet where there is an absense of Catholicism or a hatred towards it (or rather as Fr. Fulton Sheen used say a hatred towards “what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church - which is quite a different thing”) my posting in on this thread has nothing to do with my views on Catholics here, who I know to be good people. I apologize for any other misinterpretations you recieved from my posts, although the image size is intended to be out of the ordinary (it is exactly for the reason that you mentioned about not seeing them this large), because I deliberately want Catholics not to miss it. I understand that you may not be willing to do this particular type of evangelization, but for those that would like to this is aimed towards them, and I once again ask prayers for the Crusade.
God bless you,
your brother in Christ.

 

[Cathdefender]

the crusade occured against the muslim caliphat.now many christians feel shame for it.but if crusader wanted back their land from muslims how can it inhuman?muslims always proclaimed jihad againt not muslim if it was fare to them so why crusade was unfair?

I doubt that many Christians are “ashamed” of the Crusades. They had to do what they had to do.

 

[Cathdefender]

When Pope Urban II called the Crusade the first time, many uneducated, ignorant people from the masses joined in because they were promised forgiveness for sins if they did it.

Sadly, as they ventured to the Near East, they slaughtered and otherwise abused many Jewish communities in France and Germany as well.

More info: aish.com/literacy/jewishhistory/Crash_Course_in_Jewish_History_Part_45_-_The_Crusades.asp

Myth: the Crusades were also waged against the Jews;

No Pope has EVER called a Crusade against Jews. During the first Crusade a large band of riffraff, not associated with the main army, descended on the towns of Rhineland and decided to rob and kill the Jews they found there. In part this was pure greed. In part it also stemmed from the INCORRECT BELIEF that the Jews, as the crucifiers of Christ, were legitimate targets of the war.
Pope Urban II and subsequent popes strongly condemned these attacks on Jews. Local bishops and other clergy and laity attempted to defend the Jews, although with limited success. Similarly, during the opening phase of the Second Crusade, a group of renegades killed many Jews in Germany before St. Bernard was able to catch up to them and put a stop to it.
The misfires of the movement were an unfortunate byproduct of Crusade enthusiasm, but they were NOT the purpose of the Crusades.
Here is a modern analogy:

During the second world war, some American soldiers committed crimes while overseas. They were arrested and punished for these crimes. But the purpose of the second world war was not to commit crimes…

 

[bobzills]

the crusade occured against the muslim caliphat.now many christians feel shame for it.but if crusader wanted back their land from muslims how can it inhuman?muslims always proclaimed jihad againt not muslim if it was fare to them so why crusade was unfair?

The Fourth Crusade was a disaster as it involved the wanton looting and destruction of Orthodox Churches and Catholic Crusaders violently raping Orthodox nuns who had dedicated themselves to the service of God.

 

[morning_star777]

The Fourth Crusade was a disaster as it involved the wanton looting and destruction of Orthodox Churches and Catholic Crusaders violently raping Orthodox nuns who had dedicated themselves to the service of God.

ya 4th crusade was a disaster&if some crusaders rape nuns then it was really horrible.but we can’t blame catholics for that.because just some crusaders did that not all of them.

 

[morning_star777]

buddies,its a very old thread.yesterday a new user open it again.my personal opinion is crusades were good except some disasters or odds.but i think we shouldn’t go further.so pls lets end this topics.atleast i will try not to respond any post of this thread though i am the thread poster.so its better that we shouldn’t discuss about it.so pls lets end this topic.thank all of you

 

[swariffin]

the crusade occured against the muslim caliphat.now many christians feel shame for it.but if crusader wanted back their land from muslims how can it inhuman?muslims always proclaimed jihad againt not muslim if it was fare to them so why crusade was unfair?

Dear Morningstar,

Blood bath was never meant by God. No killing is authorized by God, especially done in his name. This is true in whatever religion of the world.