Crusades response?

[Garyjohn2]

Tell me the names of all the great Muslim advances throughout the ages, such as what was accomplished by the Catholic Church in the areas of healthcare, education, sciences. If Muslims had not been beaten back we would all still be living a life like those in Afganistan,and there would be no education, no healthcare, no scientific discoveries and people would still be stoned to death or have body parts cut off in punishment for perceived offenses.

Well, you should know that Muslim advances from this period, and their contributions to modern society, are HUGE! The telescope, medicine, geometry…not to mention MANY of the teachings of ancient greek scientist/philosophers that were lost during the dark ages were reintroduced to europe during the crusades and muslim occupation in places like Spain. If the dark age/ medieval christians never encountered the muslims of the time, Europe would be quite backwards. The muslims were considerably more advanced in than the European counterparts of the day. In fact, the knowledge, trade, and rediscovery of the classics by the Europeans through interaction with the Islamic world over hundreds of years is what sparked the “renaissance.” This cannot be understated!

Outside of that one of the biggest contributions of the muslim world are the “arabic numerals.” These are the numbers we still use today (1, 2, 3, 4, etc.). Before that, it was roman numerals. Arabic numbers are MUCH better for record keeping and math. The numbers themselves are actually based on Indian numerals, but they were introduced to Europe through Islam. It also introduced a number for “zero”. It’s not quite the same thing as the university or hospital system that the catholic church invented, but it’s quite important, as you can imagine.

Here’s a cool wiki link on that topic:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_in_the_medieval_Islamic_world#On_the_historiography_of_medieval_Islamic_science

 

[vames]

Again ask them if they know how many the Inquisition killed ~5000 in 300 years], whereas the witchcraft trials of the Reformation killed 100,000s in the 1600s. Evoke Salem for a start. Our faith was involved in these as well, but not with the fervor of “others”

This is really gross
How am I less guilty of crime *because *others have managed to kill more people than me? Isn’t *every *life precious?

 

[Lion_of_Narnia]

…Again ask them if they know how many the Inquisition killed ~5000 in 300 years], whereas the witchcraft trials of the Reformation killed 100,000s in the 1600s…

The erratic, spread across Europe witch hysterias is now estimated to have executed 30,000 up to 60,000 people from circa 1450 to 1700–and while most intense in protestant Scotland and Germany, Catholic societies were involved as well. See Sandra Meisel’s Who Killed the Witches

 

[Aelred_Minor]

Well, you should know that Muslim advances from this period, and their contributions to modern society, are HUGE! The telescope, medicine, geometry…not to mention MANY of the teachings of ancient greek scientist/philosophers that were lost during the dark ages were reintroduced to europe during the crusades and muslim occupation in places like Spain. If the dark age/ medieval christians never encountered the muslims of the time, Europe would be quite backwards. The muslims were considerably more advanced in than the European counterparts of the day. In fact, the knowledge, trade, and rediscovery of the classics by the Europeans through interaction with the Islamic world over hundreds of years is what sparked the “renaissance.” This cannot be understated!

Outside of that one of the biggest contributions of the muslim world are the “arabic numerals.” These are the numbers we still use today (1, 2, 3, 4, etc.). Before that, it was roman numerals. Arabic numbers are MUCH better for record keeping and math. The numbers themselves are actually based on Indian numerals, but they were introduced to Europe through Islam. It also introduced a number for “zero”. It’s not quite the same thing as the university or hospital system that the catholic church invented, but it’s quite important, as you can imagine.

Here’s a cool wiki link on that topic:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_in_the_medieval_Islamic_world#On_the_historiography_of_medieval_Islamic_science

“Arabic numerals” really originated in India, and it’s my understanding that speakers of Arabic call them “Indian numerals”. Still, your general point is very correct. In the Middle Ages Islamic culture was highly intellectual and Europe for a time was playing catch-up to it. The anti-intellectual streak of some of the more extreme interpretations of Islam today is a modern phenominon, a reaction against Western intellectual and cultural dominance.

 

[Prieldedi]

This is really gross
How am I less guilty of crime *because *others have managed to kill more people than me? Isn’t *every *life precious?

Life is precious, but put yourself in the period and you would understand. Much precious than life IS the salvation of one’s soul. The heretics were putting their follower’s souls at peril. In those times (as opossed to today) the salvation of the soul was a #1 priority for the society at large. Those who were a menace to salvation had to pay dearly.

The response you read is to correct the notion that floats around much of the world today, that the Inquisition killed millions of europeans. These numbers have been thrown around for several centuries now and many people believe they are true. To say that in reality less than 5,000 heretics were killed in 800 years of Inquisition gives a true perspective of the way the Inquisition actually behaved, compared to what happened right after the reformation.

The individuals condemed by the Inquisition were given the opportunity to amend their errors. They were told to renounce the heresy and live. Those who did it were released and their lives were spared. But many held their position and paid the ultimate price. It must be said that the civil authorities were the ones that executed the heretics. An offense to the Church was considered an offense to the King, and viceversa.

I like to point out that just over 120 years ago in the Old West stealing a horse was punished by death. In the Confederate states (prior to the Civil War) if you were black and were caught stealing as little as a woman’s purse you paid with your life. The Inquisition doesn’t have the monopoly of cruelty, if by applying the “law of the land” which was known to all living souls at the time, is considered cruelty.

 

[Lion_of_Narnia]

While we should not ignore Arab contributions to science and scholarship we should not over-estimate it as well. Like the Romans borrowing from the Greeks only what was immeadietly practical, the Arabs used Indian numbers for navigation across the trackless sands (using astrolabes) and to determine the times for five-times daily prayers.

While a few of the elites became interested in geometry, optics, and the like, the very basis of Islamic religion would not, could not support a scientific mind-set–to Islam, Allah is transcendently inscrutable and explicitly can withdraw all knowledge and all being–in Islam there is no basis for a regular, establish order than God can be depended to maintain, and because it is maintained, scientific laws can be determined. That is why science was born and flourished in the West, why Church founded Universities with the scholastic tradition of free inquiry flourished

 

[Simeon_Hovey]

How do I respond to somebody who brings up the crusades? I know that many objections to the crusades are based on misconceptions and misinformation, but any tips?

Also, how do I respond to things like the Spanish inquisition and the “forced conversions” in the Americas?

Who says you have to?

I’m a “catastrophically disabled” veteran and have been living a life so very different from anything I ever expected. There are times in my struggles to live that the one foundation I have is the absolute believe that He’s still got plans for me here on earth. And despite what I would have previously believed to be an over whelming life that would not be worth living He gives me the strength and faith to continue.

Throughout your life you will find people who will want to make these arguments. Remember what Confucius said, “Never argue with fools, others watching won’t know who is who.”

 

[Aeden]

Who says you have to?

I’m a “catastrophically disabled” veteran and have been living a life so very different from anything I ever expected. There are times in my struggles to live that the one foundation I have is the absolute believe that He’s still got plans for me here on earth. And despite what I would have previously believed to be an over whelming life that would not be worth living He gives me the strength and faith to continue.

Throughout your life you will find people who will want to make these arguments. Remember what Confucius said, “Never argue with fools, others watching won’t know who is who.”

When you’re debating somebody saying “I don’t want to talk about that subject” is usually not acceptable. Plus, there are lots of misconceptions and a lot of misinformation about the subjects, so it’d also be our duty to correct that and defend the Church, assuming the person isn’t belligerent and actually misunderstands.