Crush the TULIP & Defense of Calvinism - a theological exercise to draw us closer to Christ

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cyberwolf001 said:
What is TULIP?
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Calvinism is simply a nickname for biblical Christianity.
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The TULIP doctrine of Calvinism is not a comprehensive look at the doctrine.  Calvinism is often seen as the five-point doctrine but this is a common misconception.  Calvinism is hundreds of points which come together in a unified whole.  TULIP is only a very brief, basic, look at Calvinism and an easy way to remember it. Sometimes people will say they are a three point Calvinist or a four point Calvinist, but this cannot be so. Calvinism as a whole cannot be broken down into separate parts just because that person doesn't feel that he\she cannot cope with a certain perspective. Three and four point Calvinists are simply confused Arminians.
Calvin’s theology is not a unique theology; Calvin did not create this theology single-handed. It is only a rehashing of the teachings of Augustine of Hippo and the Apostle Paul, not to mention the rest of the Biblical authors. His theology is a systematic approach to the promise, covenant, and providence teachings of the grace of God found throughout the Scriptures.

The above is from the link source: apuritansmind.com/Reformation/ShortHistoryCalvinism.htm

“The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else be false to my conscience and my God. I cannot shape the truth; I know of no such thing as paring off the rough edges of a doctrine. John Knox’s gospel is my gospel. That which thundered through Scotland must thunder through England again.”—C. H. Spurgeon
 
cyberwolf001 said:
What is TULIP?
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T= Total Depravity. Humanity is affected totally by sin. The image of God is marred by sin. It is not, you are as evil as can be…ie we are all not Hitler. But we are all sinners.

U= Unconditional Election. God chose you, you did nothing in the process.

L=Limitied Atonement. Christ death is sufficient for all, but efficient only for the elected.

I=Irresistible Grace. When and if the Holy Spirit chooses you, you can not say no. Or the Holy Spirit will only choose those who will say yes. Basically you can not resist the will of God. Now some will say the convert will agree as it is in his nature.

P= Perseverance of the Saints. God will perserve His children until the end. If you fall away, you were not saved. It is sometimes confused with Once Saved Always Saved, which is a conclusion that can be drawn from this doctrine. Reformed will reject OSAS. Salvation is not a license to sin.

This was created in response to the “5 points” created and presented to the Dutch government in 1618 by those who did not want to be part of the national church. They were the followers of a theologian named Armimius.

Neither Calvin nor Armimius wrote the respective 5 points. The competing points were created by followers trying to interpret their teachings.

Hope that helps.

Peace

Fr.Mark
ACNA
 
MarkBrown said:
T= Total Depravity. Humanity is affected totally by sin. The image of God is marred by sin. It is not, you are as evil as can be…ie we are all not Hitler. But we are all sinners.

U= Unconditional Election. God chose you, you did nothing in the process.

L=Limitied Atonement. Christ death is sufficient for all, but efficient only for the elected.

I=Irresistible Grace. When and if the Holy Spirit chooses you, you can not say no. Or the Holy Spirit will only choose those who will say yes. Basically you can not resist the will of God. Now some will say the convert will agree as it is in his nature.

P= Perseverance of the Saints. God will perserve His children until the end. If you fall away, you were not saved. It is sometimes confused with Once Saved Always Saved, which is a conclusion that can be drawn from this doctrine. Reformed will reject OSAS. Salvation is not a license to sin.

This was created in response to the “5 points” created and presented to the Dutch government in 1618 by those who did not want to be part of the national church. They were the followers of a theologian named Armimius.

Neither Calvin nor Armimius wrote the respective 5 points. The competing points were created by followers trying to interpret their teachings.

Hope that helps.

Peace

Fr.Mark
ACNA
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That’s really good! Thank you Mark. Are you a Pastor?
 
Thank you for the explanation. One that is true for me. Once the HS got ahold of me I had to say yes and I am thankful everyday that I did. I have strayed more times than i care to admit, but Gods continuing Grace has drawn me back into shape.
 
2nd_Adam said:
That’s really good! Thank you Mark. Are you a Pastor?
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Yes, I am a priest in the Anglican Church of North American. Reformed Episcopal Church
jurisdiction. My Bishop use to teach, when he was in the Orthodox Presbyterain Church, at the Reformed Theological Seminary in Jackson, Mississippi. I attended, for while, RTS out of Charlotte, NC.

Fr. Mark
ACNA
 
http://www.nloma.org/Portals/0/sunset_cross.jpg
tweetymom said:
Thank you for the explanation. One that is true for me. Once the HS got ahold of me I had to say yes and I am thankful everyday that I did. I have strayed more times than i care to admit, but Gods continuing Grace has drawn me back into shape.
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This is a hymn in which Calvinists can understand deep down in our souls. It was written by a staunch Calvinist who was a Captain on slave ships. You might be familar with John Newton. I’m glad “Amazing Grace” is used as an allowable hymn at Catholic Parishes around the world. I think you can rejoce with me over this hymn too, for it is our story.

Amazing Grace

"Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
That saved a wretch like me…
I once was lost but now am found,
Was blind, but now, I see.

T’was Grace that taught…
my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear…
the hour I first believed.

Through many dangers, toils and snares…
we have already come.
T’was Grace that brought us safe thus far…
and Grace will lead us home.

The Lord has promised good to me…
His word my hope secures.
He will my shield and portion be…
as long as life endures.

When we’ve been here ten thousand years…
bright shining as the sun.
We’ve no less days to sing God’s praise…
then when we’ve first begun.

"Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
That saved a wretch like me…
I once was lost but now am found,
Was blind, but now, I see.
 
2nd_Adam said:
This is a hymn in which Calvinist can understand deep down in our souls. It was written by a staunch Calvinist who was a Captain on a slave ship. You might be familar with John Newton. I’m glad “Amazing Grace” is used as an allowable hymn at Catholic Parishes around the world.

Amazing Grace

"Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
That saved a wretch like me…
I once was lost but now am found,
Was blind, but now, I see.

T’was Grace that taught…
my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear…
the hour I first believed.

Through many dangers, toils and snares…
we have already come.
T’was Grace that brought us safe thus far…
and Grace will lead us home.

The Lord has promised good to me…
His word my hope secures.
He will my shield and portion be…
as long as life endures.

When we’ve been here ten thousand years…
bright shining as the sun.
We’ve no less days to sing God’s praise…
then when we’ve first begun.

"Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
That saved a wretch like me…
I once was lost but now am found,
Was blind, but now, I see.
Click to expand...
Adam thank you. I think it was writtn for me.I was a wretch and grace has brought me safe thus far and will continue.
 
MarkBrown said:
Yes, I am a priest in the Anglican Church of North American. Reformed Episcopal Church
jurisdiction. My Bishop use to teach, when he was in the Orthodox Presbyterain Church, at the Reformed Theological Seminary in Jackson, Mississippi. I attended, for while, RTS out of Charlotte, NC.

Fr. Mark
ACNA
Click to expand...
I want to thank your for being on this thread. It is an honor to have an Anglican Priest on this thread to provide edifying discussions and answers for my dear Catholic siblings in Christ. Many here enjoy discussing TULIP and related issues. Are you familar with the “Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals” consisting of multiple denominations such as Presbyterian, Baptist, Anglican, Reformed, Lutheran, etc?

alliancenet.org/

Who We Are

The Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals is a broad coalition of evangelical Christians from various denominations, including Baptist, Congregational (Independent), Anglican (Episcopal), Presbyterian, Reformed, and Lutheran. The purpose of the Alliance’s existence is to call the Church, amidst a dying culture, to repent of its worldliness, to recover and confess the truth of God’s Word as did the reformers, and to see that truth embodied in doctrine, worship, and life… see link to continue.
 
ralphinal said:
How does Irresistible Grace not negate free will?
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That is a great place to start. One of Luther’s greatest work is called the Bondage of the Will. The famous Puritian Pastor Jonathan Edwards from the 1st Great Awakening wrote a similar book called the “Freedom of the will”. Maybe we should say that all mankind is commanded to repent and believe in Jesus Christ, and God will never refuse anyone who comes to him on their own free will. So, we can make this personal and ask why we as siblings in Christ came to Christ for life. Why did we freely choose Christ, and most others do not?
 
2nd_Adam said:
That is a great place to start. One of Luther’s greatest work is called the Bondage of the Will. The famous Puritian Pastor Jonathan Edwards from the 1st Great Awakening wrote a similar book called the “Freedom of the will”. Maybe we should say that all mankind is commanded to repent and believe in Jesus Christ, and God will never refuse anyone who comes to him on their own free will. So, we can make this personal and ask why we as siblings in Christ came to Christ for life. Why did we freely choose Christ, and most others do not?
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You have not answered. In fact, you are making it look like the two are not compatible.
 
2nd_Adam said:
That is a great place to start. One of Luther’s greatest work is called the Bondage of the Will. The famous Puritian Pastor Jonathan Edwards from the 1st Great Awakening wrote a similar book called the “Freedom of the will”. Maybe we should say that all mankind is commanded to repent and believe in Jesus Christ, and God will never refuse anyone who comes to him on their own free will. So, we can make this personal and ask why we as siblings in Christ came to Christ for life. Why did we freely choose Christ, and most others do not?
Click to expand...
Because God knows who will accept and who won’t, still He gives us all a chance Like He did the Pharroh in Geneses:thumbsup:
 
ralphinal said:
I thought God hardened Pharroh’s heart
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He did but God still gave him a chance to repent . But he didn’t so God knowing he wouldn’t harden it for His purpose. And so God (I brlieve) that God does the same with us. He gives all the chance to repent, but just like Pharroh there will come a time when God will give up on us.:eek:
 
ralphinal said:
I thought God hardened Pharroh’s heart
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In what way did God harden Pharaoh’s heart, actively or passively? If you understand this point, you are on your road of embracing double predestination. Of course Catholics reject double-predestination… but the Catholic Thomist view of predestination is really double predestination in which God withholds a certain kind of grace from the retrobrate.
 
ralphinal said:
You have not answered. In fact, you are making it look like the two are not compatible.
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Catholics and Protestants both believe that we don’t come to Christ apart from the draw of God the Holy Spirit. We both reject pelagism in which we come to Christ apart from the work of the Spirit. You see this draw of the Spirit to be resistible. I see this draw which is received by the elect only as being irresistible. What do you think Jesus meant by many are called but few are chosen?
 
tweetymom said:
He did but God still gave him a chance to repent . But he didn’t so God knowing he wouldn’t harden it for His purpose. And so God (I brlieve) that God does the same with us. He gives all the chance to repent, but just like Pharroh there will come a time when God will give up on us.:eek:
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I encourage everyone to study that account again. Focus on the bigger picture in why God hardened Pharoah heart over and over again.

Matthew 22:14

For many are called, but few are chosen.”
 
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