Cryonics

  • Thread starter Thread starter stringbeanduck
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

stringbeanduck

Guest
For those of you who watch ABC there was special about living to be 150 last night 4/1/08. They also talked about cryonics. I’ve heard about in the past and I am very much opposed to people trying it. Our ultimate goal is to get to heaven. Not live for ever. I’m all for taking steps to live a long life(i.e eat healthy exercise ect… but cryonics is too far I believe. Trying to play God like this is something I can’t agree with. For those of you who don’t know what it is:

From wikipedia:
Cryonics is the low-temperature preservation of humans and other animals that can no longer be sustained by contemporary medicine until resuscitation may be possible in the future.
Click to expand...
Any thoughts? What are the Church teachings concerning this practice?
 
That’s a good question.

Personally, I don’t want to live longer than I would normally live with basic current medical treatment. I can see a lot of people using Cryonics, though.

I wonder what the Church would think? If somebody were in this state, wouldn’t unhooking them be euthanasia? Would not utilizing this medical advancement be tantamount to euthanasia? I’ve had to ‘let go’ of one of my own children, and I still don’t understand the Church’s take on euthanasia, or if this is even the right term.

To me, the idea of Cryonics would be ‘playing God,’ just like IVF, I just don’t think it’s right based on what little I know about it.
 
The act of freezing someone alive would be murder, as we cannot even revive someone from a cryogenic state, let alone cure whatever disease they may have.
 
Yes I agree that it is trying to play God. Has it come across any of them that you can’t pull a soul out of heaven or hell? I take that most of them have fallen from religion and love of God for if they did truly love God they would desire to live with him.

To have it done according to law the patient must be legally dead in the U.S
 
stringbeanduck said:
Yes I agree that it is trying to play God. Has it come across any of them that you can’t pull a soul out of heaven or hell? I take that most of them have fallen from religion and love of God for if they did truly love God they would desire to live with him.
Click to expand...
Remember the Ted Williams fiasco? How sad. That’s not the way I want to remember Teddy Ballgame.
 
I think that people who resort to being frozen so they can someday be brought back to life miss the point that our lives are already eternal. I don’t need to be “brought back” as my life will continue… not here though… but in heaven, God willing.

Their bodies might be “frozen” but they are already either at their final desination or on their way via purgatory. Science might be able to freeze their bodies, but it certainly can’t freeze their soul.
 
Im gonna go ahead and play devils advocate here and suggest that a couple of hundred years ago people would be having the same type of arguement for blood transfusions.

Its a scientific advancement which will allow people to extend their lives. the same as blood transfusions and various other “experiments” which were dangerous at the time and now part of common practice.

I wont make jokes about the length of peoples lives being longer in the bible and imply that this technology is divinely inspired so our lives are extended to the same.

On the other hand our lives and bodies are not owned by us, they are instead merely held in stewardship for God. When he is ready to call us home we should/ought to and WILL.

Its a very tough question which I havent really had time to consider and have yet to make an informed decision. I look forward to someone posting a comment that will truly enlighten me on the subject.

best wishes.
 
I think it’s only a matter of before genetic manipulation, advanced pharmacuticals, cybernetics, stem cells or nanites (or some combination) will dramatically change human life as we know it.

…it’s not a matter of “if” it’s a mater of WHEN.

…and it needs to be discussed NOW before the really big genies come out.

What used to be sci-fi is slowly becoming reality. As our medical and computer knowlege grows in scope, we will have some very long and some very healthy people out there. At first, it will only be for the rich (the ultimate fantasy trip), but with most advances, it will eventually trickle down to the masses.

Imagine…
  1. Living for several hundred years (if not longer)
  2. Erradicating the big five diseases (heart, cancer, stroke, diabetes, and kidney).
  3. Replacing or repairing any organ to pristine condition.
  4. No loss of mental capacity.
  5. No more need for sleep (or very little).
  6. Eternal youth.
  7. People becoming more isolated/nuerotic as they live longer and lose touch with their human side (aka: “Highlander” series).
  8. The “haves” living to 500 years and the “have-nots” living to 70 with the divisions it could cause.
  9. The fusion of human and technology becoming a hybrid species.
  10. Mankind becoming less inclined towards God as their “Technological hubris” increases.
  11. Designer “perfect” babies (born in artificial wombs) excel while the “norms” get phased out (“Gatica”).
  12. The seduction of “digital bliss” as false fantasy worlds become more disirable than the real world (Matrix)
No matter how much we protest on moral grounds there is a certain segment of the population that would rush to get this. As we’ve noticed already, humanity in it’s current state is becoming less inclined towards God, embracing Humanistic reasoning, and is fearful of death. It’s the perfect combination.

It’s coming…are you ready for the tempation?

Just my two cents.
 
You could think of this is the next evolution of mumification where the deceased will be raised from the dead in a more intact state. Or you could think of this as another way of artificially extending life. Assuming that the soul never leaves the body even though the heart stops.

What is the Churches teaching on artificially extending life? I don’t understand the difference between this and artificial hearts, organ transplants, or other heroic measures to prolong life.
 
This makes me think of when Jesus said "whoever seeks to save their life will lose it and however seeks to lose it will save it.
 
I wouldn’t want to hold my breath waiting for them to thaw me out and then you always have to worry about freezer burn. 😃
 
Well this does raise serious, serious questions. Here are 2 examples:

A triathlete (me) is competing in the Hawaiian Ironman, and has a heat stroke. My heart stops, and I go into cardiac arrest. Because of the heat and lactic acid buildup, even if they somehow got me defibrillated within 5 minutes, I’d be pretty much brain dead.

Now let’s say my friend was doing an ironman in the arctic circle and falls through the ice. It takes them 70 minutes to find his lifeless body, but they warm him up and shock him back to life.

Now did his soul go to Purgatory for 60 minutes and then come on back? When did my soul leave my body?

The most important question to ask is: when does the soul actually leave the body. Someone in the Middle ages who went into cardiac arrest was immediately declared dead. Nowadays, you can be brought back upwards of 30 minutes. Does the available medical technology determine when the soul leaves?

Let’s say that when the soul leaves is determined by the extent of damage to the body. So X amount of brain damage causes the soul to leave. But what if in 100 years we can use nanotechnology to fully repair that damage? Will that affect when the soul leaves the body? I mean it is possible that nanotechnology could repair days worth of damage after death. It is therefore possible that the body would be repaired, and the soul would revert back? Or would the soul never leave until it was currently medically impossible to repair the body? Think of the Middle ages and now. We CAN revive people after extended periods of time.
 
BioCatholic said:
…The most important question to ask is: when does the soul actually leave the body. …
Click to expand...
That sort of reminds me of a scene from a BBC television series on Robin Hood. Where Robin thought an enemy had died but later encountered that enemy. The enemy went into a monolouge something like When does someone die, when they stop breathing, when their heart stops, when their corpse rots? and what if their corpse does not rot?.. I guess God will allow your corpse to rot when it is no longer needed.

Isn’t one of the criteria for saint hood when the body is preserved with out human intervention?
 
stringbeanduck said:
For those of you who watch ABC there was special about living to be 150 last night 4/1/08. They also talked about cryonics. I’ve heard about in the past and I am very much opposed to people trying it. Our ultimate goal is to get to heaven. Not live for ever. I’m all for taking steps to live a long life(i.e eat healthy exercise ect… but cryonics is too far I believe. Trying to play God like this is something I can’t agree with. For those of you who don’t know what it is:

From wikipedia:

Any thoughts? What are the Church teachings concerning this practice?
Click to expand...
Did some bearded guy talk on the documentary? Did Aubrey de Grey appear?
 
I saw it.

Everybody in the liquid nitrogen was already dead before they were frozen. Already dead.

The pipe dream that they can be thawed and revived is plain nuts. Morseo when you consider they offer “brain only” perservation for lower cost! BRAIN ONLY. Think about THAT for a few. :eek:
 
Whether it be possible or not its still trying to play God. To me it seems people who try this practice care more about their earthly life rather than spending an eternity with God.
 
aksarben said:
I think it’s only a matter of before genetic manipulation, advanced pharmacuticals, cybernetics, stem cells or nanites (or some combination) will dramatically change human life as we know it.

…it’s not a matter of “if” it’s a mater of WHEN.

…and it needs to be discussed NOW before the really big genies come out.

What used to be sci-fi is slowly becoming reality. As our medical and computer knowlege grows in scope, we will have some very long and some very healthy people out there. At first, it will only be for the rich (the ultimate fantasy trip), but with most advances, it will eventually trickle down to the masses.

Imagine…
  1. Living for several hundred years (if not longer)
  2. Erradicating the big five diseases (heart, cancer, stroke, diabetes, and kidney).
  3. Replacing or repairing any organ to pristine condition.
  4. No loss of mental capacity.
  5. No more need for sleep (or very little).
  6. Eternal youth.
  7. People becoming more isolated/nuerotic as they live longer and lose touch with their human side (aka: “Highlander” series).
  8. The “haves” living to 500 years and the “have-nots” living to 70 with the divisions it could cause.
  9. The fusion of human and technology becoming a hybrid species.
  10. Mankind becoming less inclined towards God as their “Technological hubris” increases.
  11. Designer “perfect” babies (born in artificial wombs) excel while the “norms” get phased out (“Gatica”).
  12. The seduction of “digital bliss” as false fantasy worlds become more disirable than the real world (Matrix)
No matter how much we protest on moral grounds there is a certain segment of the population that would rush to get this. As we’ve noticed already, humanity in it’s current state is becoming less inclined towards God, embracing Humanistic reasoning, and is fearful of death. It’s the perfect combination.

It’s coming…are you ready for the tempation?

Just my two cents.
Click to expand...
You’re right. Churches and individual Christians need to be discussing the ethics and morality of these things, and very few are. These things aren’t even on the radar screens of a lot of Christians.
We are on the verge of a lot of this.
If people can extend their lives hundreds of years, having children will probably become rare.
I don’t think we are wired to live that long in our sinful state.
 
Vanny said:
You’re right. Churches and individual Christians need to be discussing the ethics and morality of these things, and very few are. These things aren’t even on the radar screens of a lot of Christians.
We are on the verge of a lot of this.
If people can extend their lives hundreds of years, having children will probably become rare.
I don’t think we are wired to live that long in our sinful state.
Click to expand...
But where is the sin in extending your life? Obviously, if you are doing it at the expense of others (i.e. taking stem cells from aborted embryos or harvesting the organs unwillingly taken from other people, such as what goes on in China), then there maybe sin, but otherwise, we’re kind of entering into an area that neither Scripture nor anything else (i.e. Sacred Tradition) directly address.

Although there have always been schemes to find eternal youth/eternal life (the alchemists searching for the Elixir of Life, Ponce de Leon searching for the Fountain of Youth, stories like Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade), never in history as there been a serious realization that such a thing might be possible. After all, if you figure out a way to reverse aging (basically, so that continuously, your bodily molecules reproduce as fast as they died, even in the brain’s neurons, which naturally do not mitotically reproduce…although as mitosis increases, the risk of mutation also increases) and a way to combat major illnesses (some, such as organ diseases, could be dealt with by creating a new organ for someone and something like cancer by figuring out a way to alter the genetic code in the cancer cells so that they stop reproducing as such and/or even start destroying other cancerous cells), you could have the idea of ‘unending life’ (not to be confused with immortality).

Immortality=unable to die. Unending life=you won’t succomb to death by natural causes.
 
Wow, interesting topic. Is anyone here a Tolkien fan? The story of the Numenorians is very relevant here:

Sauron, former sevant of Melkor, was brought to Numenor as a prisoner after he was defeated. He rose to the point where he was the chief advisor to the Numenorian king. The Numenorians had been given longer life by the Valar because they assisted in the great war against Melkor. The Numenorians (because of Sauron) became so enticed by the idea of the immortal life of the elves that Sauron convinced the king to invade Valinor. Eru destroyed the Numenorians and sunk their island into the sea.

They were consumed by their desire for longer life.

Towards the end of Bilbo Baggins’ possesion of The One Ring, he described himself as, “spread thin, like butter scraped over to much bread.” The Ring brought unnatural long life to him, and it caused his soul unrest.

I think the desire for long life is dangerous. There are important questions that have been raised here that I have no hope of answering.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top