Crystal Chalice?

[bmadamsberry]

It was at a Papal Mass in Papua, New Guinea, in 1984. Not only the native women were bare breasted but the American student who read was bare breasted. I doubt very much that the Pope had been told in advance that that was going to happen.

Actually, it wouldn’t surprise me if he did know. These were probably native women, and it would not have been as much of a shock value to them (maybe this should be posted on the modest clothing thread going on right now, lol). Because it is cultural and regional, it’s not particularly weird.

Nevertheless, the Pope gives implicit assent to things such as glass chalices when he 1) Does not move the Vatican MC who plans the Masses, after these things happen, and 2) when he does and says nothing to contradict his implicit assent.

Those people that say things such as “well he didn’t know before hand” or “he doesn’t plan his own Masses”… give me a break. He might not know before hand, but he also doesn’t do anything afterwards. Plus, on the example of the glass chalices, it was a news item before hand. He surely knew his itinerary.

 

[superamazingman]

Actually, it wouldn’t surprise me if he did know. These were probably native women, and it would not have been as much of a shock value to them (maybe this should be posted on the modest clothing thread going on right now, lol). Because it is cultural and regional, it’s not particularly weird.

Nevertheless, the Pope gives implicit assent to things such as glass chalices when he 1) Does not move the Vatican MC who plans the Masses, after these things happen, and 2) when he does and says nothing to contradict his implicit assent.

Those people that say things such as “well he didn’t know before hand” or “he doesn’t plan his own Masses”… give me a break. He might not know before hand, but he also doesn’t do anything afterwards. Plus, on the example of the glass chalices, it was a news item before hand. He surely knew his itinerary.

Let me say this: I’ve worked with some of the most conservative bishops in the states. Just because something happens at one of his Masses does not mean he automatically approves, just because he says nothing publicly. Keep that in mind.

 

[bmadamsberry]

Let me say this: I’ve worked with some of the most conservative bishops in the states. Just because something happens at one of his Masses does not mean he automatically approves, just because he says nothing publicly. Keep that in mind.

True, but there are differences between the two. First, most bishops don’t have the same press coverage. The Pope doesn’t celebrate a public Mass without photos and video. Secondly, the Pope is the one to whom many people look for as an example and so has more pressure on him to denounce those practices he disagrees with and with which he participates at a Mass. Besides, the Pope could easily provide a do/don’t list, and one would think that he would be kept well within the loop of what will occur at Mass.

One can see an example: the first televised Mass from Rome was around the time of Vatican II. The way many old cathedrals were built, the celebrant would celebrate “facing the people,” because that would cause the celebrant to be facing East. Word began to get out that celebrating Mass “facing the people” was endorsed and supported by the Vatican… and so it stayed. (Of course, there are other reasons too, but this does illustrate the power of monkey see, monkey do)