Cult vs Religion

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TexanKnight said:
“God” is a vague term in the company of some churches, Mormons being one, because their “god” is not THE God. So, any “god” they try to lead you to would be considered bad fruits.
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Interesting point. I don’t know much about the protestant faith but do they worship THE God or is it like the mormon God and is completely different?

would you consider bad fruits to be an indication of a cult?
 
Stephen168 said:
The authority the Pope has now; he did not have then. Christianity has never had a “prophet” figure as its leader.
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I’m sorry, i’m a little confused now. Can you explain a little more please?
 
TheIrishman said:
I’m sorry, i’m a little confused now. Can you explain a little more please?
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I’ve had Mormons try to explain the “Great Apostasy” by using the analogy of the telephone game. I correct them by explaining it is more like a ‘room game.’ When Christ died there were over 50 people in the room. When one died someone else entered the room and the others explained the teachings and traditions of Christ. Over time there were more and more people (Bishops) in the room. In the early days of the Church you knew you were in the right room if the Bishop of Rome was there. The Bishops as a group are the leadership of the Church. In a cult there would only be one person in the ‘room.’
 
Also, “the telephone game” isn’t protected and guided by the Holy Spirit. 😃
 
Stephen168 said:
I’ve had Mormons try to explain the “Great Apostasy” by using the analogy of the telephone game. I correct them by explaining it is more like a ‘room game.’ When Christ died there were over 50 people in the room. When one died someone else entered the room and the others explained the teachings and traditions of Christ. Over time there were more and more people (Bishops) in the room. In the early days of the Church you knew you were in the right room if the Bishop of Rome was there. The Bishops as a group are the leadership of the Church. In a cult there would only be one person in the ‘room.’
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Love your take on this. 👍
 
Stephen168 said:
I’ve had Mormons try to explain the “Great Apostasy” by using the analogy of the telephone game. I correct them by explaining it is more like a ‘room game.’ When Christ died there were over 50 people in the room. When one died someone else entered the room and the others explained the teachings and traditions of Christ. Over time there were more and more people (Bishops) in the room. In the early days of the Church you knew you were in the right room if the Bishop of Rome was there. The Bishops as a group are the leadership of the Church. In a cult there would only be one person in the ‘room.’
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So when did the Bishop of Rome become officially known as the pope and leader of Christians?
 
Not to be rude or disrespectful but I see many of the traits of the popular definition of cult in the Mormons or LDS.

Charismatic founder…Joseph Smith
Shunning ex members or “apostate”, for sure.
Their own book … BOM, D&C, POGP, the bible but only if it is translated “correctly”.
Claiming to be the only way, only true church, check.
Easy to get into, they will rebaptise you after only one missionarie’s lesson.
Hard to leave, yes. There a thousands on Mormon rolls who were only Mormon a couple of months who refuse to go through a bishops excommunication court. And get tired of tiresome attempts to have their names removed. So they are still listed as Mormons.
 
andrewstx said:
Not to be rude or disrespectful but I see many of the traits of the popular definition of cult in the Mormons or LDS.

Charismatic founder…Joseph Smith
Shunning ex members or “apostate”, for sure.
Their own book … BOM, D&C, POGP, the bible but only if it is translated “correctly”.
Claiming to be the only way, only true church, check.
Easy to get into, they will rebaptise you after only one missionarie’s lesson.
Hard to leave, yes. There a thousands on Mormon rolls who were only Mormon a couple of months who refuse to go through a bishops excommunication court. And get tired of tiresome attempts to have their names removed. So they are still listed as Mormons.
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None taken, I’m a member of the LDS faith and i’ve said many times to my friends and family members that we have cult-ish like customs.
 
TheIrishman said:
So when did the Bishop of Rome become officially known as the pope and leader of Christians?
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Peter’s Confession about Jesus.

13 When Jesus went into the region of Caesarea Philippi* he asked his disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” 14i They replied, “Some say John the Baptist,* others Elijah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” 15He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”

16* Simon Peter said in reply, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” 17Jesus said to him in reply, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood* has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. 18k And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church,* and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.

19l I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven.* Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” 20* m Then he strictly ordered his disciples to tell no one that he was the Messiah.

- Jesus Christ, NAB Matthew 16:13-19
 
runningdude said:
Peter’s Confession about Jesus.

13 When Jesus went into the region of Caesarea Philippi* he asked his disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” 14i They replied, “Some say John the Baptist,* others Elijah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” 15He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”

16* Simon Peter said in reply, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” 17Jesus said to him in reply, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood* has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. 18k And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church,* and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.

19l I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven.* Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” 20* m Then he strictly ordered his disciples to tell no one that he was the Messiah.

- Jesus Christ, NAB Matthew 16:13-19
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I think i’m just naive and don’t know Catholicism all to well but the other poster, stephen i think is his name, said that Christians have never had a leader. So is the Pope the leader? I’m just not sure whats going on here.
 
TheIrishman said:
So when did the Bishop of Rome become officially known as the pope and leader of Christians?
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This should be two questions:

So when did the Bishop of Rome become officially known as the pope?
Starting in the third century with the Bishop of Alexandria many Bishops were lovingly referred to as father/papa/pope. Many centuries later it was used just to refer to the Bishop of Rome.

So when did the Bishop of Rome become the leader of Christians? From the beginning when Christ gave the keys to Peter, and his successors.
 
Stephen168 said:
This should be two questions:

So when did the Bishop of Rome become officially known as the pope?
Starting in the third century with the Bishop of Alexandria many Bishops were lovingly referred to as father/papa/pope. Many centuries later it was used just to refer to the Bishop of Rome.

So when did the Bishop of Rome become the leader of Christians? From the beginning when Christ gave the keys to Peter, and his successors.
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So then Christian’s do have a leader? The Pope
 
TheIrishman said:
I think i’m just naive and don’t know Catholicism all to well but the other poster, stephen i think is his name, said that Christians have never had a leader. So is the Pope the leader? I’m just not sure whats going on here.
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Actually he said:
Stephen168 said:
The authority the Pope has now; he did not have then. Christianity has never had a “prophet” figure as its leader.
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I think the confusion might be in the word “leader” Christianity did not have a central absolute authority based in one man, so I would not think the early Christians would be thought of as a cult.
 
andrewstx said:
Not to be rude or disrespectful but I see many of the traits of the popular definition of cult in the Mormons or LDS.

Charismatic founder…Joseph Smith
Shunning ex members or “apostate”, for sure.
Their own book … BOM, D&C, POGP, the bible but only if it is translated “correctly”.
Claiming to be the only way, only true church, check.
Easy to get into, they will rebaptise you after only one missionarie’s lesson.
Hard to leave, yes. There a thousands on Mormon rolls who were only Mormon a couple of months who refuse to go through a bishops excommunication court. And get tired of tiresome attempts to have their names removed. So they are still listed as Mormons.
Click to expand...
You hit the nail right on the head. Though it is easy to get out, just they won’t take your name off the rolls (to inflate their membership numbers).

Cool fact: The Mormon Church doesn’t actually have 14.7 million members. It only has 4-5 million active members… that’s even smaller then the Jehovah’s Witnesses and Oneness Pentecostals!
 
Kanuckistani said:
You hit the nail right on the head. Though it is easy to get out, just they won’t take your name off the rolls (to inflate their membership numbers).

Cool fact: The Mormon Church doesn’t actually have 14.7 million members. It only has 4-5 million active members… that’s even smaller then the Jehovah’s Witnesses and Oneness Pentecostals!
Click to expand...
Another fun fact, I baptized 36 people while on my mission. Only 10 stayed active while I was on my mission. Only 2 are active today. I returned 3 years ago.
 
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