Cult with no way out!!!

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Since you started this thread on the subject of JWs (nothing to do with Mormonism), but a bunch of Mormon apostates (as usual) have decided to divert it away from the subject to throw jibes at Mormonism; allow me to inform you that I am a Mormon, and know that it is true! 😃

zerinus
It’s not a diversion at all. To those of us who leave JWs or Mormonism the similarities are very much there.
Allow me to inform you that when I left Mormonism I did not do so on a whim. I left it because of many factors but certainly not light-heartedly.

Oh and FYI? It’s really not insulting for us that you name us “apostates” of Mormonism. We glory in that fact. At least I do. 🤷

in Christ
Steph
 
This dose not apply in my opinion To Jehovah’s witnesses, because I don’t see where Christ has asked exjw’s to stop association with active Jehovah’s witnesses.
Nobody wants to stop association with JWs. It is the JWs who don’t want to associate with other people. Where does Christ say that you should forcibly associate with people who don’t want to associate with you?

zerinus
 
Excaliber,
I agree with you. I see no reason to reveal your new faith to your family at this time. It is indeed possible that at some point in the future, they might discover it, but why start a problem if you don’t have to? That said, I’d try to avoid JW functions. What is your status within the JW’s right now? Are you considered inactive, and if so, exactly what does that mean for you? You’ve been learning about Catholicism for over a year, and so far there haven’t been any problems, so I’d say just continue what you’re doing. If there’s one thing that Christians have been good at over the years, it’s practicing their faith underground. That said, it is unfair that you should HAVE to, but if you want to preserve those relationships, it seems the best solution for now. If you eventually save some money and can move from home, then you will be able to practice more openly.

By the way, if I recall correctly, don’t you have a sister that lives down my way that is converting to Catholicism? Is she still going to do that? That would be at least one relative. Also, if I remember, your dad isn’t a JW either, although he’s no less hostile toward Catholicism. This may at least give you some hope.

Finally, I’d add that what you’re experiencing right now is VERY common. You’re just seven weeks from Easter Vigil and converting to a brand new faith. Almost all converts experience some second thoughts and doubts at this point. It’s hard to change from the only faith you’ve ever known. Your heart and mind tell you that what you’re about to do is the right thing, but your comfort zone, habits, and family might give you pause and make you want to stay where you are. That feeling usually passes either just before the conversion or some time after. You should know that you do have almost 20% of the world behind you though in our Catholic faith. It may also be good to dwell upon all the things that you enjoy about Catholicism and the truths that you find within it. That tends to help. In any case, I’ll be praying for you. Oh, and be sure to get your sponsor to get someone to take some pictures of your sacraments at the Vigil Mass! It’s an important moment in your life, plus I’d personally like to see them!

If you want to talk further, just send me a private message. 👍
 
I have finaly come to realize, that
there is no way out of Jehovah’s witnesses FOR ME.
I am sure you feel this way now, but it isn’t true.
I am in RCIA and I want a christian
baptism, I can easily see where Jehovah’s witnesses are wrong theologicaly.
Such knowledge is more powerfull than any WMD. Congratulations and let me offer a pre-Easter welcome to the Church.
And yet I canot leave it!!
My whole family is there, all my friends…If I plan on getting married anytime soon then there is a 90 percent chance that iit will be to a Jehovah’s witness.
This cult was NOT designed for people to leave.
Think of the orphan, the widow, and those truly alone in life. They survive and thrive and so can you.
I have NO family ties to the catholic church. Why is this important? Because a faithfull Jehovah’s witness has NO close relationships with ANYONE outside
there organization. That means leaving is social suicide, and in this
economy I would lose ALMOST EVERY relationship I ever built.
I will not sugar coat the personal, emotional and maybe financial suffering you may experience, but I will say such suffering is redemptive and strengthening to your mental and spiritual being. It’s very Catholic.
anyone else see a way out, that I don’t see?
I see one of three choices:
1.) Continue to wallow in uncertainty between the past and future.
2.) Cloak your new spirituality so you can maintain some semblance of the life you knew before.
3.) Embrace the truth of the faith with determination to live it as fully as possible.

Keep in mind what is important.

God bless and good luck.
 
It’s not a diversion at all. To those of us who leave JWs or Mormonism the similarities are very much there.
Allow me to inform you that when I left Mormonism I did not do so on a whim. I left it because of many factors but certainly not light-heartedly.

Oh and FYI? It’s really not insulting for us that you name us “apostates” of Mormonism. We glory in that fact. At least I do. 🤷

in Christ
Steph
Hi Iknow you say you are a ex morman but I dont think Morman and the JW you can use in the same breath, I think the JW are way out if left field,.as they say its just my opinion
 
Hi Iknow you say you are a ex morman but I dont think Morman and the JW you can use in the same breath, I think the JW are way out if left field,.as they say its just my opinion
Hi Bill,

I am not being contentious, just very curious, " What field " would you put Mormons ???

For what it may be worth, the two ( LDS and JW ) can certainly be used in the same breath. ( Just My opinion 🙂 )

Peace,
CJ
 
I have finaly come to realize, that
there is no way out of Jehovah’s witnesses FOR ME.

I am in RCIA and I want a christian
baptism, I can easily see where Jehovah’s witnesses are wrong theologicaly.

And yet I canot leave it!!
My whole family is there, all my friends…If I plan on getting married anytime soon then there is a 90 percent chance that iit will be to a Jehovah’s witness.
This cult was NOT designed for people to leave.

I have NO family ties to the catholic church. Why is this important? Because a faithfull Jehovah’s witness has NO close relationships with ANYONE outside
there organization. That means leaving is social suicide, and in this
economy I would lose ALMOST EVERY relationship I ever built.

exjw’s Im sure understand.
I guess I am doomed to be a Catholic, stuck in the Jehovah’s witness organization.

anyone else see a way out, that I don’t see?
You have a very hard choice to make. From what I understand, the Jehovah’s Witnesses are a little hard on those who leave. I don’t know how your family is going to react—have you spoken to them?

Sometimes a family will think more of the family than of the religion–and you won’t lose them; but don’t surprise them. Let them in on what’s going on.

As well, I see that you are being given lots of advice regarding expanding your circle of acquaintances…and they are right. You have to do that. However, your new friends will NOT be family. They can’t be expected to fill that hole in your heart or your life.

So you need to be very, very certain that you are going to something better than what you have now. When you ARE that certain, then…just go there. It’s going to be very, very, VERY hard.

It’s going to be lonely. It’s going to be heartbreaking. But if you truly have found your faith elsewhere, you have to go.

If I were you…how old are you? If you are young enough to be in college, or are unmarried, or…I would go to a Catholic school, immerse yourself in all things Catholic, get yourself a Catholic girlfriend…a DEVOUT Catholic girlfriend with a very big family.

And fast. You will need the family, because you are about to lose yours. The good news is that if you do this, as hard as it is to lose what you have, the joy of what you find will more than compensate you for it.

Are you surprised to hear this from a Mormon?

Don’t be. 😉 You need to go where God wants you.
 
Hi there. I, too, saw no way out of Mormonism. I grew up in Utah County. My entire family is Mormon. Every single one. (that I know of) for generations.

At one point, for me, I had to come to the crucial decision. Jesus? Or Mormonism. They are both exclusive.

The choice was simple… not easy. But SOOOO worth it.

I haven’t seen my family in 15 years. My Mother and sisters have not met my kids. (their choice, not mine)

Take the leap. God will not abandon you and there is a new family for you here in His church.

in Christ
Steph
Steph, judging from your posts, I think…it’s your choice.
 
Hi Iknow you say you are a ex morman but I dont think Morman and the JW you can use in the same breath, I think the JW are way out if left field,.as they say its just my opinion
I think the effect on the individual is the same although they may differ in other ways.

Just as painful
Just as freeing

In fact… exactly the same culture shock. You’re “in” and then suddenly you’re not and sometimes you just don’t know which way is up… The GREATEST consolation is that Jesus has His arms wrapped around you, which is incomparable.

in Christ
Steph
 
Steph, judging from your posts, I think…it’s your choice.
Nope. I really don’t care what you think of my posts. It isn’t my choice. I have had every single card I have sent, including school pictures of the girls, sent back refused.

To the rest…

This is a typical “mormon shunning”. Although not quite as blatant as a JW would experience when leaving. Nevertheless, it always comes back to the apostate and their guilt.

One cannot possibly have left without being a sinner in the mormon sense… (we are all sinners and only Jesus can step in our place) , not being “good enough”, not trying hard enough et al. It’s not possible that one can leave and be shunned. It must be because the person themselves is defective.

in Christ
Steph
 
Hi Bill,

I am not being contentious, just very curious, " What field " would you put Mormons ???

For what it may be worth, the two ( LDS and JW ) can certainly be used in the same breath. ( Just My opinion 🙂 )

Peace,
CJ
No.

They can not. Our beliefs are very different, as are our methods. Of course, if you want to classify us as 'groups that Nick doesn’t like" I suppose that we can be 'used in the same breath," but I imagine that using that standard might put us in some very interesting company.
 
Nope. I really don’t care what you think of my posts. It isn’t my choice. I have had every single card I have sent, including school pictures of the girls, sent back refused.

To the rest…

This is a typical “mormon shunning”. Although not quite as blatant as a JW would experience when leaving. Nevertheless, it always comes back to the apostate and their guilt.

One cannot possibly have left without being a sinner in the mormon sense… (we are all sinners and only Jesus can step in our place) , not being “good enough”, not trying hard enough et al. It’s not possible that one can leave and be shunned. It must be because the person themselves is defective.

in Christ
Steph
Ok, I’ve read your posts. I’ve read some of the things you have to say about Mormons, and your family.

While I am very sorry that your family seems to have thrown you out, you need to know that this is NOT what Mormons are counseled to do with those who leave the church. It is the opposite of what we are supposed to do. Human nature, of course, tends to rear its ugly head no matter what, but still.

Here’s what I think happened, though, at least in part. You ‘found religion’ elsewhere. You became so convinced that your new faith was the all in all, and that your old one was so heinous, and the people who still believed so doomed to hellfire and damnation that you wore your conversion on your sleeve, your neck, in your car–you carried it in and about you everywhere you went. You went to family get togethers with a chip on your shoulder big enough to make a schooner mast, and every single conversation with you became about your new faith and how you were convinced that Mormonism was a cult and everybody in it either worthless or hellbound or stupid or brainwashed.

This is, of course, assuming that you actually did not do anything that would have gotten you excommunicated–like sleeping around or breaking Temple vows or something like that. This is simply assuming that you lost your faith in Mormonism and went elsewhere.

In fact, you behaved with your family and friends precisely the way you behave with Mormons right here…and they got tired of it.

Your behavior, coupled with their heartbreak and disappointment, caused a family rift; partly their fault, partly yours…and they simply cut their losses.

Can you tell me that if you went home, you could actually attend a family get together and NOT be obnoxiously ‘ex Mormon’ and behave as if you are doing them a huge favor by showing up?

That you would respect their beliefs and keep your opinions about religion to yourself?

That you would simply…enjoy the birthday party without making some snide remark about the absence of coffee, say…or the rules about no dating until they were sixteen, or children ‘bearing testimonies’ in church?

Could you actually attend Sacrament meeting without looking like you had eaten two lemons and a persimmon?

I’ll bet…not.

But that opinion is based only on the way you treat Mormons in here, so I could be wrong. You COULD be a long suffering, patient and sweet person who never insulted any member of her family because of the faith they still have, and keep. You COULD be the purest innocent victim who does her level best to keep bridges open with her family, apologizes for any offense, and is willing to allow them to be Mormon and still keep your respect for being your family.

It could happen. It would be interesting to hear what your family’s side of this is.
 
No.

They can not. Our beliefs are very different, as are our methods. Of course, if you want to classify us as 'groups that Nick doesn’t like" I suppose that we can be 'used in the same breath," but I imagine that using that standard might put us in some very interesting company.
Hello dianaiad,

You say " NO " with so much authority :confused:

It may indeed be your " opinion " but please understand that I have one of those as well 🙂

I must say, with all due respect dianaiad, your bold posting on these threads ( not the least of which was the last one to Steph regarding his enormously painful family story ) is highly insulting and very judgemental, to say the least.

At any rate, Peace,
CJ
 
how are you (diana) supposed to assume that tundramom has haughtily shunned her relatives by leaving Mormonism?

That is a completely backwards assessment. The apostate in his or her heart probably would like to continue talking to his or her family but it’s the family that doesn’t want to give the apostate the time of day.

Of course, for people who are embedded so strongly in systems that shun apostates, they can’t possibly begin to understand that feeling. They are too busy looking down on the apostate.

You may say you are not looking down but you are DEFINITELY more willing to give the apostate’s FAMILY MORE benefit of the doubt than the apostate. What does that say about your true colors?
 
Ok, I’ve read your posts. I’ve read some of the things you have to say about Mormons, and your family.

While I am very sorry that your family seems to have thrown you out, you need to know that this is NOT what Mormons are counseled to do with those who leave the church. It is the opposite of what we are supposed to do. Human nature, of course, tends to rear its ugly head no matter what, but still.

Here’s what I think happened, though, at least in part. You ‘found religion’ elsewhere. You became so convinced that your new faith was the all in all, and that your old one was so heinous, and the people who still believed so doomed to hellfire and damnation that you wore your conversion on your sleeve, your neck, in your car–you carried it in and about you everywhere you went. You went to family get togethers with a chip on your shoulder big enough to make a schooner mast, and every single conversation with you became about your new faith and how you were convinced that Mormonism was a cult and everybody in it either worthless or hellbound or stupid or brainwashed.

This is, of course, assuming that you actually did not do anything that would have gotten you excommunicated–like sleeping around or breaking Temple vows or something like that. This is simply assuming that you lost your faith in Mormonism and went elsewhere.

In fact, you behaved with your family and friends precisely the way you behave with Mormons right here…and they got tired of it.

Your behavior, coupled with their heartbreak and disappointment, caused a family rift; partly their fault, partly yours…and they simply cut their losses.

Can you tell me that if you went home, you could actually attend a family get together and NOT be obnoxiously ‘ex Mormon’ and behave as if you are doing them a huge favor by showing up?

That you would respect their beliefs and keep your opinions about religion to yourself?

That you would simply…enjoy the birthday party without making some snide remark about the absence of coffee, say…or the rules about no dating until they were sixteen, or children ‘bearing testimonies’ in church?

Could you actually attend Sacrament meeting without looking like you had eaten two lemons and a persimmon?

I’ll bet…not.

But that opinion is based only on the way you treat Mormons in here, so I could be wrong. You COULD be a long suffering, patient and sweet person who never insulted any member of her family because of the faith they still have, and keep. You COULD be the purest innocent victim who does her level best to keep bridges open with her family, apologizes for any offense, and is willing to allow them to be Mormon and still keep your respect for being your family.

It could happen. It would be interesting to hear what your family’s side of this is.
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

:eek: :eek:

CJ
 
You have a very hard choice to make. From what I understand, the Jehovah’s Witnesses are a little hard on those who leave. I don’t know how your family is going to react—have you spoken to them?
The problem with the Jehovah’s Witnesses is that those who leave the organization are essentially considered to be hopelessly lost. Their influence could be corrupting to other members, and the policy is that they are “disfellowed”. It’s similar to shunning in the Amish communities. Other members, including family, are officially banned from all contact with them. This is often done at a formal disfellowing trial (I’m not sure the proper term) in front of church leaders. Notice is then given to the entire church body to avoid them. As far as they’re concerned, it’s as if they are dead already. I know of people who have left the organization who haven’t heard a single word from their family again, despite many attempts at contact, for more than 30 years.

My advice to Excaliber is to keep his conversion hidden from his family for now. He lives at home. Because of his years of volunteer work for the JW’s at their headquarters in Brooklyn, he has no schooling, and can’t afford to live on his own. Since JW’s believe that the final judgement will occur within their lifetime, there’s really no point to education. He has absolutely no resources. He should practice Catholicism in secret (for now), save up money, and then move out. Then, he will be free to practice somewhat more openly. So far, this has worked for him. Plus, if he still is able to maintain contact with his family, he can begin to get them to question their beliefs more slowly, perhaps opening a door for them to question their faith at some point in the future by having subtle discussions with them and planting seeds.

I was one of those people that first helped lead Excaliber on the path to the Catholic Church more than a year and a half ago on Catholic Community Forums. I’m very familiar with his family situation. The reason he questioned the JW’s in the first place is because he was thrown out from the Watchtower in New York, where he worked and lived (in dorm-style housing), with no warning, no money, no home, and no place to go. I would hate to see him in a similar situation once again.
 
Excalibur, this is indeed a time of being able to join in the suffering of Christ. I would suggest that your fears of being shunned, your belief that you must marry a JW girl, that you must stay in the org for awhile, etc., may be tricks of the evil one who does NOT want you to be baptized and join in Christ’s true Church.

You will not be alone. You will not be abandoned. You will not be homeless, penniless, and twenty pounds overweight. You will not be single, celibate, and isolated for the rest of your life unless you discern you have a monastic vocation (well, not isolated, but silent :))

When I left the monastery after two years, it was a very, very difficult transition. I was cut off from family (long story) and I was in a city and state I had never lived in outside of the monastery. I had two years of college but no degree. I worked at a variety of jobs (live-in aid to elderly woman, preschool teacher’s aide, fast food, etc.) and returned to college. My church community welcomed me with open arms and gave me the strength to get through the difficult times. I never went without a place to live, even in the early weeks when I had to live on a friend’s couch for lack of funds and nowhere else to stay.

When you place your trust in Him, He will not abandon you. Jesus promised to return our sacrifices one hundred fold in this life and eternal life as well. You would be amazed at the powerful witness you will be setting for your family, and you never know how your willingness to put Christ above all in your life may lead others to Him as well.

Be at peace, dear one, and move in the direction He is leading you. Talk with your pastor, talk with your RCIA sponsor, request help forming those important relationships with others in the parish. Talk with others in your RCIA “class” and see what support might be there.

My experience is that there is an abundance of support out there, but that we forget to ask for help. Ask for help and see what opens up.

And remember, God keeps His Word. You can trust in this. And He has promised to care for all your needs. All of them. He said so – trust in Him 👍

God bless you, dear one.

Gertie
 
Excalibur,

One other thought that occurred to me: You might find out if it is possible for you to be a boarder at the rectory of your parish or another close by (or even far away if that be to your liking). You might also consult with the pastor about a family that might be willing to take you in until you get your bearings. You could do odd jobs, help with the cooking, cleaning, yardwork, etc.

When I was in the monastery, we actually took in a single mom and her two children because they were without housing for about six weeks. The abbess felt comfortable making this offer because we knew them from daily mass and prayers, and because she had a lengthy talk with the mom before they moved into one of our guest houses. Perhaps another monastery could offer you the same help?

I know these suggestions are somewhat random, but then I do tend to think “outside the box.” I may be over-equating your situation with mine of leaving the monastery?

Anyway, you are still in my prayers!

Gertie
 
Yup. Typical “mormon shunning” just like I said.

Just a couple of more experiences of mine… (of course only MY side of it since that’s all I have!) But I’m sharing it in the third person for some reason. LOL :confused:

Steph has a real “born again” experience wherein she absolutely knows that God has answered her heartfelt prayer… alone… without an altar call… in her own Living Room. Afterwards, she immediately calls her Mom back in Utah. Steph has had her first absolutely spiritual awakening and wants to share. Mom’s reaction is, “you can’t get that outside of the Temple. Why don’t you get your act together and get that husband converted and you’ll see what true spiritual awakening is.” Steph, deflated, takes her Mom’s words to heart and begins reading the Book of Mormon again. Calls Missionaries and asks if they can start at the beginning again with her… They do. Which ensues a couple of years of another spiritual desert for Steph.

Steph continues to search for Truth. She studies with JWs, goes to Mass with Catholic hubby, Keeps trying to believe in Mormonism. Most of all, opens up her Bible frequently and reads and prays.

Mom asks Steph about her progress on getting hubby converted. Steph tells Mom where she’s been on everything. Mom asks why she isn’t excited. Steph opens up her feelings to her Mom and Mom tells her that everything will be ok once she gets to the temple.

After everything… after conversion…

Steph drives her family out to Utah with her newborn daughter to meet Grandma. We knock on the front door. Mom is heard behind the door whispering to Steph’s sister, “It’s Stephanie, don’t open the door!” Dejected, and since it’s almost Father’s Day, Steph and her family go to her Dad’s grave to put flowers on it. The next day we go back to water the flowers. They are gone. Left where they were placed, is a note. “You have no right to place flowers here. You are no longer his daughter.”

Steph’s FIL dies and she is heartbroken. Her MIL died 18 months before. The WTC has just happened and the world seems to be going crazy. She needs comfort that only a Mom can give, so she calls. “Mom, this is Steph… Jack just died while we were watching the Presidential address…” Mom replies, “Who is this? Oh, yeah. I understand… my bird just died a few days ago.” “You know at least we know that my husband will be with us in Heaven… too bad we can’t say the same for Jack.” click

Yup. It’s all in the apostate’s hands. We are at fault, after all.

in Christ
Steph
 
Hello dianaiad,

You say " NO " with so much authority :confused:
Well, yeah. I’m a Mormon, y’see, and know what my beliefs are.
It may indeed be your " opinion " but please understand that I have one of those as well 🙂
And one to which you are entitled. I’m just expressing my own. Am I not entitled?
I must say, with all due respect dianaiad, your bold posting on these threads ( not the least of which was the last one to Steph regarding his enormously painful family story ) is highly insulting and very judgemental, to say the least.

At any rate, Peace,
CJ
yeah, well…when the things that were said TO me are criticized with as much…concern…as those which I say, I’ll consider your words. (shrug)

I think, though, that I need a break.

Or at least a good night’s sleep.
 
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