Cultural Differences in the Music sung in Mass

[OraLabora]

Try the Cistercian Monks of Stift Heiligenkreuz. It is some of the most beautiful music you will ever listen to.

Give it a try for free at pandora.com/cistercian-monks-of-stift-heiligenkreuz

-Tim-

The one CD (well, actually, it’s now an iPhone playlist!) I do often listen to in my car; especially their recording of Compline. Sometimes if I drive home from a choir rehearsal late at night, I listen to Compline in my car so I can get straight to bed when I get home (our choir is based an hour’s drive away). I alternate with a CD from Solesmes that also has monastic Compline.

There’s an interesting difference between the two: the Cistercian monks recorded during Lent. There’s no alleluia, and the hymn melody is the Lenten one. So I listen to that recording during Lent. The Solesmes monks chant it for Ordinary Time (Salve Regina is the Marian antiphon and the Sunday melody for OT is used for the hymn).

Interestingly, the Cistercians always use the Salve Regina as Marian antiphon after Compline, whereas the Benedictines follow the Roman pattern: Alma Redemptoris at Advent and Christmas, Ave Regina Caelorum after Christmas and up to Paschal time, Regina Caeli in Eastertide, and Salve Regina for Ordinary Time after Pentecost.

The rest of the recording of the monks from Stift Heiligenkreuz ain’t bad either

I also have a nice recording of the Carthusians from Parkminster in England. It includes part of Vigils and the also the readings from Vigils which are great. Like many anglophones chanting in Gregorian chant, they have problems rolling their "R"s, but their voices are heavenly.

 

[OraLabora]

divide the Church into subsections by language.

Well there are already 23 Churches in communion making up the wider Catholic Church, and not all of them used Latin throughout their ancient existence

Everything was “new” at some time, including the New Covenant; some people died at the hands of the people of the Old Covenant defending it

 

[FAB]

Is chant, Latin, classical and/or similar forms of music used in the Mass more desirable than other cultural styles of music that one might find in different cultures such as Mexican, African or any other culture? If so, please help me to understand why.

As I understand, the cultural expression of music used in Traditional Masses is European in origin, so what makes this music more desirable than others, provided the Mass is executed properly, with respect and dignity?

Or am I mistaken in my interpretation of what others are saying? Please help me to understand. It seems some who prefer the Latin Mass may be discounting other musical expressions of worship and I would like to gain some clarity on the matter.

Thanks!

The GIRM for the mass allows for the mass to be celebrated based on culture and language including the type and style of music. In my diocese mass is celebrated each Sunday in over 170 languages and I guess the music is just as varied.
This is wonderful for the church, as Christ told us as we hear in the Gospel, “go make disciples of all nations”.
Nothing in those words include, use only Latin and the Gregorian Chant.
Dcn Frank

 

[ProVobis]

Well there are already 23 Churches in communion making up the wider Catholic Church, and not all of them used Latin throughout their ancient existence

St. John XXIII addressed and paid respects to these ancient languages. Nonetheless his Apostolic Constitution VETERUM SAPIENTIA (the highest level of decree by a Pope) gave clear instruction on preserving Latin in “religious matters” while effectively banning the vernacular. Was issued just a few months before he convened Vatican II. Words of wisdom that should have been better heeded IMO.

 

[janeway529]

Is chant, Latin, classical and/or similar forms of music used in the Mass more desirable than other cultural styles of music that one might find in different cultures such as Mexican, African or any other culture? If so, please help me to understand why.

As I understand, the cultural expression of music used in Traditional Masses is European in origin, so what makes this music more desirable than others, provided the Mass is executed properly, with respect and dignity?

Or am I mistaken in my interpretation of what others are saying? Please help me to understand. It seems some who prefer the Latin Mass may be discounting other musical expressions of worship and I would like to gain some clarity on the matter.

Thanks!

Because culture shapes the liturgy, chant is given a place of honor due to its elderly status. But this honored status should not mean that other cultural expressions are somehow inferior or lacking. More and more the model has gone from “national churches” of one culture to integrated multicultural parishes, with each culture bringing their shared gifts to the table.

 

[ProVobis]

Because culture shapes the liturgy, chant is given a place of honor due to its elderly status. But this honored status should not mean that other cultural expressions are somehow inferior or lacking. More and more the model has gone from “national churches” of one culture to integrated multicultural parishes, with each culture bringing their shared gifts to the table.

Then why did Pope Paul issue Jubilate Deo in order to achieve unity?

In April 1974 Pope Paul VI sent to every bishop in the world a booklet of some of the simplest selections of Gregorian Chant, much of it drawn from the Graduale Romanum. This booklet, called Jubilate Deo, was intended as a “minimum repertoire of Gregorian chant”. It is, in other words, an official Latin “core repertoire” for the Roman Rite. It was prepared, the Pope said, in order “to make it easier for Christians to achieve unity and spiritual harmony with their brothers and with the living tradition of the past. Hence it is that those who are trying to improve the quality of congregational singing cannot refuse Gregorian chant the place which is due to it” (Voluntati Obsequens).

Pope Paul VI gave permission for the selections in Jubilate Deo to be freely reprinted. The booklet was accompanied by a letter in which the Holy Father made this request of the bishops:

“Would you therefore, in collaboration with the competent diocesan and national agencies for the liturgy, sacred music and catechetics, decide on the best ways of teaching the faithful the Latin chants of Jubilate Deo and of having them sing them…. You will thus be performing a new service for the Church in the domain of liturgical renewal” (Voluntati Obsequens).

Jubilate Deo contains simple chant settings in Latin of the parts of the Ordinary of the Mass: Kyrie, Gloria, Credo, Sanctus, Memorial Acclamation, Agnus Dei. It also provides musical settings for the dialogues between priest and people, such as before the Preface, and the Ite Missa est, the response to the Prayer of the Faithful, and others.

An, expanded edition of Jubilate Deo was later issued by the Congregation for Divine Worship in 1987.

adoremus.org/JubilateDeo.html

 

[OraLabora]

St. John XXIII addressed and paid respects to these ancient languages. Nonetheless his Apostolic Constitution VETERUM SAPIENTIA (the highest level of decree by a Pope) gave clear instruction on preserving Latin in “religious matters” while effectively banning the vernacular. Was issued just a few months before he convened Vatican II. Words of wisdom that should have been better heeded IMO.

If they had, perhaps we’d still be teaching Latin in school and it would have made the whole vernacular vs. Latin debate, moot.

Alas, we can’t put the genie back into the bottle.

 

[creationlover]

A word to all - I appreciate everyone’s gracious replies; you have given me much to ponder. I hope this thread continues as I am learning much. I wish I could add more to the conversation. I am a convert who was raised in a traditional African American Baptist setting and grew up listening and worshipping in a musical context where the music was originally designed to help the congregation express the pains and woes of slavery, Jim Crow laws and trials and tribulations of life specific to the African American experience. Interestingly enough some the music has a “chant-like” quality; it was taken from the communication chants, songs and calls used by the African slaves when they were in the fields to communicate information such escape plans and even Psalms for those who had access to Bibles and could read. As this music evolved, other elements were added such as jazz, and today in some predominately African American Protestant churches, R & B.

To make a long story short, the Holy Spirit led me down the liturgical road - I ended up in a “baptistic” seminary, occasionally attended church at Episcopal churches and through circumstances ended up in a conservative Presbyterian church with a strong set liturgy and a focus on reverent, classical music which I thoroughly enjoyed. Their covenantal theology and worship style opened the door for my later conversion and appreciation of, for lack of better terms, chant and more “traditional” forms of Catholic music.

Today I have the privilege of singing in a choir where we do a quite a bit of chant and I would say, roughly 60 percent of what we sing is in Latin. I love being in this choir (I am one of the cantors) and find the music draws me in a way few other forms of music can do. Our director was trained at Catholic University in Washington DC and does the best she can with folks like me. From an ethnic perspective, the choir consists of Whites, Hispanics, one person of Asian descent and myself - a small reflection of the one, holy, apostolic and universal Catholic Church

Yet considering my own rich African American ethnic heritage (and how gospel music fed the souls of African American Christians from early colonial America in an environment of harsh discrimination through the 1960s) and enjoying the immense universal cultural musical heritage of the Catholic Church (which I now affectionately call “my home”) I am seeking to strike a balance in my own understanding and approach to worship as a Catholic.

I hope this response adds a little more background to the “why” of my op. Again, I appreciate the gracious and informational responses.

 

[27lw]

Hi Creationlover.
You have a really interesting background, and story! Thanks for bringing up such good questions, and bringing out good answers.
I’m wondering if you have ever been to the website for the Church Music Association of America, musicasacra.com?
They have a ton of wonderful articles, sources, etc.
I thought this was an interesting article:

“Liturgical Culture, Seafood, and 31 Flavors of Ice Cream”
musicasacra.com/commentaries/31flavors/

Here’s a short excerpt:​

Recently, a friend of mine came to Mass one Sunday at the collegiate chapel where I am the music director. He normally goes to the parish church. Afterwards he commented, “My, you do a lot of Gregorian chant! Is that really necessary? Isn’t that too much!?”

I felt like saying, “If you go to a seafood restaurant would you complain to the manager that there is too much fish on the menu?”…​

Thanks for bringing up such good questions, and bringing out good answers!

 

[creationlover]

Hi Creationlover.
You have a really interesting background, and story! Thanks for bringing up such good questions, and bringing out good answers.
I’m wondering if you have ever been to the website for the Church Music Association of America, musicasacra.com?
They have a ton of wonderful articles, sources, etc.
I thought this was an interesting article:

“Liturgical Culture, Seafood, and 31 Flavors of Ice Cream”
musicasacra.com/commentaries/31flavors/

Here’s a short excerpt:​

Recently, a friend of mine came to Mass one Sunday at the collegiate chapel where I am the music director. He normally goes to the parish church. Afterwards he commented, “My, you do a lot of Gregorian chant! Is that really necessary? Isn’t that too much!?”

I felt like saying, “If you go to a seafood restaurant would you complain to the manager that there is too much fish on the menu?”…​

Thanks for bringing up such good questions, and bringing out good answers!

Great article! I liked this para:
This is not to deny that these valid “substitutions” can happen to varying degrees based upon pastoral prudence and even subjective choice. The problem is that these subjective choices have been allowed and practiced to such a great degree over the past forty years that the Roman Rite’s very own music has been almost totally erased in the actual experience of probably a majority of Catholics.

I know of a predominately African American parish in which the pastor is using African American gospel music but he inserts Latin and is slowly moving the parish toward a style that is distinctly Catholic and African American. I attended the parish for a while, but my preference is for the traditional music of the Church.

My kids prefer the traditional music of the Church yet I am a bit saddened that they are not familiar with their ethnic church traditions. Still figuring this all out. I am most comfortable with the fact they know what a reverent Mass with a liberal use of Latin/chant is like - and seem to prefer it.