Cultural split

[Samwise1]

I posted this some time ago in the prayer section.

But now I can’t keep it no longer. Our marriage has been a struggle and the birth of our beautiful child, with Down syndrome, and with traumatic experiences afterwards, for both of us, just in different aspects.

It’s always the same circle. Wife tells her difficulty with something and I step in to comfort, and often sacrifice something to make her feel better and because I know that’s what you do to help your significant other.
Then later on, I notice too I have a hard time, I throw a tantrum to her but get no actual support in regaining peace.
I feel alone and don’t know what to do. Is it a burnout, is it spiritual dryness (and if so, how do I get out? - I have enough spiritual help and baggage but now just feel so alone that everything heavenly is too far away). Or is it something else? A sign to review the basic things (my marriage)?

 

[Lou2U]

I’m sorry to hear this. Would you and your wife be able to go to marital counseling? It’ll help you to communicate better so you both feel heard and you can work towards supporting each other in the way you need.

Lou

 

[Xantippe]

I posted this some time ago in the prayer section.

But now I can’t keep it no longer. Our marriage has been a struggle and the birth of our beautiful child, with Down syndrome, and with traumatic experiences afterwards, for both of us, just in different aspects.

It’s always the same circle. Wife tells her difficulty with something and I step in to comfort, and often sacrifice something to make her feel better and because I know that’s what you do to help your significant other.
Then later on, I notice too I have a hard time,** I throw a tantrum to her but get no actual support in regaining peace.**
I feel alone and don’t know what to do. Is it a burnout, is it spiritual dryness (and if so, how do I get out? - I have enough spiritual help and baggage but now just feel so alone that everything heavenly is too far away). Or is it something else? A sign to review the basic things (my marriage)?

Does your wife even know that that’s what you want?

If you are throwing a “tantrum” she may not be interpreting it as a request for support.

How about asking for support when you want support, and maybe making up a list of things that you would find supportive.

The book “The Five Love Languages” might be a helpful read for you and your wife right now.

Also, do you belong to a support group yet for Downs Syndrome or special needs parents? You need at least some support from outside your marriage, otherwise you’re just cannibalizing each other.

Best wishes!

 

[Samwise1]

We both have our different spiritualities and priests we would trust right now. But it might be a good idea to ask someone…

Maybe there is homesickness involved from her side right now.

But the problem is, she indicates she likes my strength but as soon as I decide things that ensure this strength, she disapproves.
Maybe the tantrums are not the best way, but that’s why they are tantrums. But I keep telling her that instead I need her help very clearly.
If I’m crying, she looks at me like im silly but I have supported her all the time. Boys don’t cry, maybe, in her matriarchal society. But I do cry.

I do have connections for support. But my wife is still even in denial of the diagnosis.

Sum of it all, I’m exhausted… And afraid my marriage is really falling apart. Add to that the logic that if she goes, she will take our child…
I can’t make any more compromises, I feel already im losing my identity.

 

[reggieM]

You definitely need support. Spiritual guidance, marriage help, some support for Downs Syndrome - any or all of those.
Then you have to work on your personal issues. Little at a time - focus on improving yourself.
Without judging, you’re in a people-pleasing mode, trying to control the emotions of your wife. That’s burning you out. Her feelings are hers. If she’s upset, you can’t try to manipulate her into feeling better - that’s not your job. She starts thinking of you as her caretaker. Sure, she likes your strength but she’s just feeding off of it. She has to get her own strength. And you’re probably not going to get much from her anyway for a while - but you can be ok with that, as long as you’re doing what is right for you.
This may seem like a lack of closeness, but it’s really not. It’s surrendering more by faith to God and taking less ownership and controlling attitude onto yourself (by yourself). You need the inner solitude. An hour of adoration. Definitely important to talk with another man, priest or just guy in the parish, or men’s group.
No need to break up your marriage - it’s just building new skills.
A child with Downs syndrome can be a very loving and beautiful person - as I’m sure you know. Yes, more special needs are involved, but Our Lord gave you that special cross because He knows you can do wonders with it!
All this amateur counselling offered with a grain of salt - hope some may be helpful.
P.s. - don’t lose your sense of humor. Find some joy. Ligthen up. Take a break. Find a way to have some fun. Laugh when you can. It will really help.

 

[Xantippe]

We both have our different spiritualities and priests we would trust right now. But it might be a good idea to ask someone…

Maybe there is homesickness involved from her side right now.

But the problem is, she indicates she likes my strength but as soon as I decide things that ensure this strength, she disapproves.
Maybe the tantrums are not the best way, but that’s why they are tantrums. But I keep telling her that instead I need her help very clearly.
If I’m crying, she looks at me like im silly but I have supported her all the time. Boys don’t cry, maybe, in her matriarchal society. But I do cry.

I do have connections for support. But my wife is still even in denial of the diagnosis.

Sum of it all, I’m exhausted… And afraid my marriage is really falling apart. Add to that the logic that if she goes, she will take our child…
I can’t make any more compromises, I feel already im losing my identity.

What does she say when the doctor says, “Your child has Down Syndrome blah blah blah?” Is there anybody in her family or among her friends that she would listen to? If she is far from home, is there anybody from her family who could could come and visit? Can you get her to go with you to a support group or find her a Down Syndrome parent mentor? Even an online forum could be helpful.

Denial is extremely common among special needs parents. There’s often a time lag in terms of where parents are in terms of accepting a disability.

I agree with reggieM. Don’t feel bad about building yourself up or making sure that you get support–but ideally you shouldn’t be leaning on your wife right now.

 

[Samwise1]

Yes,
Agree totally with the “Take care of yourself”. She indeed has been feeding off me, which went very well for a while during my strength-time. It was like climbing on the ladder together, her holding on to me. But now I fall several times, it seems we keep pulling each other down. I depend too much on her for emotional support.

I have ensured support, even feel I have defected unwanted support.
And yes, I need time for myself. Jokes, fun, sleep.

Problem is, I want to ensure medical attention for our child while my wife says she’s not ready for it. But she’s the one who always is close to her.
We had traumatic experiences in one hospital, and I subscribed to another already. However I’m still not confident that she wants to go with me and I need her as Sara’s parent. There’s no medical urgency right now, but for myself I just want us to have a fresh start.

On a trip yesterday I again had an outburst. This makes me more and more afraid that she has had enough and will leave us.

So there are two things I mostly need support for:
-Confidence, prayers, advice how to know my wife won’t leave me. I know that apologies won’t work anymore when I don’t show I’m working on my attitude. Although - she seems to know and realize that I needed rest yesterday after the trip, and said she loved me. I just am not sure how I should come home today.

-How can I take the ‘medical attention’ part? I am so worried about her acceptance of it, but also know I want to receive what they offer here because I know here is specialized care for Down-children. Tomorrow she will visit the hosptial for herself, maybe that will open a way.

 

[Xantippe]

Yes,
Agree totally with the “Take care of yourself”. She indeed has been feeding off me, which went very well for a while during my strength-time. It was like climbing on the ladder together, her holding on to me. But now I fall several times, it seems we keep pulling each other down. I depend too much on her for emotional support.

I have ensured support, even feel I have defected unwanted support.
And yes, I need time for myself. Jokes, fun, sleep.

Problem is, I want to ensure medical attention for our child while my wife says she’s not ready for it. But she’s the one who always is close to her.
We had traumatic experiences in one hospital, and I subscribed to another already. However I’m still not confident that she wants to go with me and I need her as Sara’s parent. There’s no medical urgency right now, but for myself I just want us to have a fresh start.

On a trip yesterday I again had an outburst. This makes me more and more afraid that she has had enough and will leave us.

So there are two things I mostly need support for:
-Confidence, prayers, advice how to know my wife won’t leave me. I know that apologies won’t work anymore when I don’t show I’m working on my attitude. Although - she seems to know and realize that I needed rest yesterday after the trip, and said she loved me. I just am not sure how I should come home today.

-How can I take the ‘medical attention’ part? I am so worried about her acceptance of it, but also know I want to receive what they offer here because I know here is specialized care for Down-children.** Tomorrow she will visit the hosptial for herself, maybe that will open a way.**

Very good.

 

[Samwise1]

Very good.

Can you extrapolate on those 2 questions? Would help me a lot? I am planning to apologize, but just don’t know if that’s sounds credible. And in fact, if I should apologize or just let it go.
Propose to her that she can take control of the medical situation?

 

[Xantippe]

Can you extrapolate on those 2 questions? Would help me a lot? I am planning to apologize, but just don’t know if that’s sounds credible. And in fact, if I should apologize or just let it go.
Propose to her that she can take control of the medical situation?

Without knowing more than you’ve said, I would suggest not apologizing unless your wife is asking for an apology.

Normally, apologies are great, but there’s the potential in your particular situation that it will make you look weak to your wife, which will make her feel more vulnerable.

Ideally, your wife would be the one in charge of the medical situation (if she’s home more) but it sounds like you’re going to have to keep taking charge for the time being. I suggest that for the following reasons:

a) even though you’re not doing well, it sounds like you have a better grasp of the reality of the situation than your wife does.
b) she doesn’t sound like she’s emotionally capable of dealing with it at this point.
c) you are on your home turf (right?) and she is not, so you’re going to understand the medical situation with less effort than your wife. There are a lot of nuances that may be lost on your wife during medical appointments if this is not her home country/culture.

I would not underestimate the importance of c). It’s really HARD dealing with a medical situation in a foreign environment.

I don’t think you should have to carry your family forever or that you are going to have to do so, but I think you are going to need to do the heavy lifting with regard to special needs issues NOW. But, to be fair to your wife, she’s probably doing 90% of the basic baby care now.

The question is, how do you get from here to where you want to be (a more equitable division of emotional labor dealing with your child’s disability)?

I think you need to make sure that your wife has a lot of interactions with third parties–doctors, nurses, counselors, mentors, etc. If you’re both at an appointment, step back sometimes and let her do the talking to make sure she’s taking it in and that she actually knows what is going on.

If English (or whatever) is not your wife’s native language, bear in mind that the situation you describe is not ideal for her to be making progress with her language learning. I would expect that the demands of young parenthood, not to mention the specific stresses of the Down Syndrome situation, may be causing her language ability to either flatline or deteriorate. Do not underestimate the language aspect in your relationship–if you two are communicating in YOUR language, those conversations are going to be much more taxing on your wife, just by virtue of (again) not being on her home turf.

(I’m a former Peace Corps volunteer, former ESL teacher and current special needs parent of two high-functioning autistic girls.)

Does your wife have any books in her language about Down Syndrome parenting? And is she going to language classes/does she have a language tutor?

Best wishes!

 

[Samwise1]

Xantippe,
From your reaction, I think you’ve got a pretty good grasp of the situation.

I talked with my boss (who is familiar with this kind of coaching), and more importantly I prayed in God’s presence, and both led me to the thought “Showing weakness right now is a sign of strength”.
There’s no medical urgency right now, as far as we can see, and my wife is visiting the ‘regular’ checks herself and I checked back with the doctor there and know she is faithful to that visit.

It’s just that thinking about the medical program stresses me out completely and makes me react this tantrum because I feel there’s no way to talk about this. I feel that opening my side, that is ‘insisting on a visit’, might help her give way and accept the visit anyway. Because then we’ll go together; otherwise she’ll be dragged along and will not support subsequent treatments and checks.

In a few weeks, she wants to go to her home country with our daughter, for some practical reasons, for touching base with the home turf (grieving process), and as a side-object to get a second opinion - which is understandable judging the way they treated us here in the beginning, and the fact that symptoms are difficult to see.
I heard it’s pretty common and some friends backed me up in supporting this. Though I don’t like it, I think this temporal distance will alleviate the stress between us.

I will pray a bit more about the apology and the ‘letting go’. Let’s see where this leads us.

 

[Xantippe]

Speaking as a naturally hot-tempered person who has had my share of meltdowns, I have to urge you to watch it with the “tantrums.”

From the point of view of the person having the meltdown, it’s a relief, but it’s a burden on the people who have to deal with it. It took me a loooong time to realize that.

I wouldn’t say that I am 100% under control, but it’s probably a solid 95%. I’m a lot more calibrated than I used to be, and it’s paid off in terms of being a better wife to my husband and having a much better relationship with my teenage daughter. (It turns out that being calm and logical is essential in dealing with teen girls–who knew?)

It’s probably a good thing that your wife is going for a “second opinion” from people whose opinion she will be able to trust–and who she will certainly be able to understand better.

While your wife and child are away, how about reading some marriage books?

Here are some possibilities:

–The Five Love Languages (I suspect you and your wife have very different love languages)
–Boundaries in Marriage
–7 Principles for Making Marriage Work (probably a less easy read than some of the others, but there’s a lot of good material.)
–How Not to Hate Your Husband After Kids

I would suggest beginning with that last book, because it’s especially devoted to the problems of young parents and it covers a lot of hot issues. It’s mostly written for a female audience (as you can tell from the title), but I think that you are going to recognize a lot of situations in the book. It’s also a relatively quick read.

One of the big insights (perhaps from the 7 Principles book or another Gottman book) is that there needs to be a 5:1 ratio between positive and negative things said. For every negative thing you say to your wife, you need to say 5 positive things, or you will wind up “bankrupting” your relationship. Ditto your wife–for every negative thing she says to you, she needs to “pay” with 5 positive things.

This is very counterintuitive (because we tend to assume a 1:1 ratio), but negativity is very “expensive” in a relationship. This is not just some sort of cheesy made-up fact–it’s also been found to be the case in corporations.

hbr.org/2013/03/the-ideal-praise-to-criticism

“The average ratio for the highest-performing teams was 5.6 (that is, nearly six positive comments for every negative one). The medium-performance teams averaged 1.9 (almost twice as many positive comments than negative ones.) But the average for the low-performing teams, at 0.36 to 1, was almost three negative comments for every positive one.”

Good luck!

 

[Samwise1]

Speaking as a naturally hot-tempered person who has had my share of meltdowns, I have to urge you to watch it with the “tantrums.”

From the point of view of the person having the meltdown, it’s a relief, but it’s a burden on the people who have to deal with it. It took me a loooong time to realize that.!

It’s not even a relief for me. I know the havoc I cause.
It’s really uplifting to know you got over it, and that I’m not the only catholic struggling with it. For me it also appears to be what saint Ignatius calls discomfort (?).
But, how did you overcome it?

While your wife and child are away, how about reading some marriage books?

Here are some possibilities:

–The Five Love Languages (I suspect you and your wife have very different love languages)
–Boundaries in Marriage
–7 Principles for Making Marriage Work (probably a less easy read than some of the others, but there’s a lot of good material.)
–How Not to Hate Your Husband After Kids

What a title for the last one! But, good idea. I do have some books gifted at our marriage that I never really opened. That would be a great time. But I’m also planning some fun activities.

One of the big insights (perhaps from the 7 Principles book or another Gottman book) is that there needs to be a 5:1 ratio between positive and negative things said. For every negative thing you say to your wife, you need to say 5 positive things, or you will wind up “bankrupting” your relationship. Ditto your wife–for every negative thing she says to you, she needs to “pay” with 5 positive things.

This is very counterintuitive (because we tend to assume a 1:1 ratio), but negativity is very “expensive” in a relationship. This is not just some sort of cheesy made-up fact–it’s also been found to be the case in corporations.

hbr.org/2013/03/the-ideal-praise-to-criticism

“The average ratio for the highest-performing teams was 5.6 (that is, nearly six positive comments for every negative one). The medium-performance teams averaged 1.9 (almost twice as many positive comments than negative ones.) But the average for the low-performing teams, at 0.36 to 1, was almost three negative comments for every positive one.”

Good luck!

Yes.i need to find time and space to relax, pray and sleep. Now I feel burned out myself so generating positivity is really difficult.
By comments, could that also include things like news topics? Talking about “us” is difficult right now, but I also caught myself only sharing bad world news instead of something else.

Just had a short talk. I want to let her know that Im not reacting like this out of arrogance but because I feel powerless like her. She understands it’s difficult for me too, which in itself is hopeful.

From your general comments, I deduct that you still see hope. For me too, now, it doesn’t seem like the end, but almost as the absolute bottom of our relationship. The straw is bend to the maximum, but not broken.

 

[pensmama87]

I don’t mean to be unnecessarily grim, but there’s a part of me that worries a little bit about your wife taking the baby to another country without you, especially depending on the culture. You paint a pretty dire picture here - is there a possibility your wife would not return? Do you know her family and their attitude toward children with disabilities? Is there a concerning cultural attitude about Down syndrome?

If that is not in any way a concern, please disregard. But there are places and cultural attitudes that would make me very reluctant to let a spouse with whom I was having major marital difficulties travel a far distance (crossing international borders) with a child that requires special care, that the spouse has been reluctant about getting. So you might want to do a little research, or if you can, go with them.

Adjusting to a new baby is so hard, and you’ve got a lot of extra curveballs thrown your way. Please be assured of my prayers for your family.

 

[Samwise1]

There’s an option I could accompany her, but I choose not to, to show trust. And because I think my presence there will interrupt her healing. The family in fact mostly lives across the border. And I got the assurance from her that she will come back.

Yes, medical practice is different. Doesn’t mean it’s worse. I consulted with our doctor and he told me he supports this and even feels a necessity.
Of course, I will miss them. But it’s about the long run. And I need to trust that the good times outweigh the bad.

She told me she will go to hospitals if needed, just is reluctant about the preventive care offered here.

 

[pensmama87]

There’s an option I could accompany her, but I choose not to, to show trust. And because I think my presence there will interrupt her healing. The family in fact mostly lives across the border. And I got the assurance from her that she will come back.

Yes, medical practice is different. Doesn’t mean it’s worse. I consulted with our doctor and he told me he supports this and even feels a necessity.
Of course, I will miss them. But it’s about the long run. And I need to trust that the good times outweigh the bad.

She told me she will go to hospitals if needed, just is reluctant about the preventive care offered here.

OK, that’s reassuring. I didn’t mean that medical care would be subpar, necessarily, but more about cultural attitudes surrounding people with disabilities. Perhaps on her own “turf” she would feel more comfortable. That could be a very good thing.

 

[Samwise1]

Well, there’s a reasoning in her family:
No symptoms → no Down → no worry so no care needed.
Down → sign of imperfection from whatever what.

From what I know, the kind of doctor she has in mind is good and will be able to bring the nuance.

But do you mean this kind of attitude?

 

[pensmama87]

Well, there’s a reasoning in her family:
No symptoms → no Down → no worry so no care needed.
Down → sign of imperfection from whatever what.

From what I know, the kind of doctor she has in mind is good and will be able to bring the nuance.

But do you mean this kind of attitude?

I’m not sure I’m following exactly, but if you mean, the attitude that says that if a person has a disability, it’s deserved, yeah, that could be part of it. There’s also parts of the world where abandoning children is commonplace, and people with disabilities are seen as not full people or deserving of respect or compassion or love. These children get dumped in orphanages where they are neglected, or worse.

If your wife did refuse to return, or refused to bring your child back, would you have legal recourse?

 

[Samwise1]

Yes that’s what I mean.
I understand your concern. But I know her and her country (Latin America, high level class) enough that she wouldn’t do that. She loves our daughter too much for that.
So I’m not thinking about her returning without baby.
Her not returning at all? Yes that’s a risk. But that would at least mean clarity about our relationship. Though I think she is catholic enough to get back in the end.

 

[Samwise1]

Furthermore, this episode finally got me activated to put a mirror to myself.

I felt empty the last weeks, but now I feel ready to really listen to myself. Sleep, prayer, functionally reviewing myself.