Cumorah

[mfbukowski]

Sir thomas moore/ atticus, whatever your alias is today,

Please note that if you really are an attorney, the evidence you have posted is terrible evidence. Random pictures of missionaries are easy to find anywhere. It is not even clear to me that any of the people in the pictures are the same people as in any of the others.

I found the story about L Tom Perry endearing. Auuuah. How sweet.

Incidentally, it is church policy that Baptisms and other church ordinances not be photographed. So it is highly likely that whoever took that picture was either unaware of that rule or was not a church member. In other words a missionary would not allow such a picture to be taken. Perhaps it was taken without the Baptizers knowledge, but in such a case a picture taken in violation of church rules would not be kept.

Would a real attorney post such ridiculous “evidence”? Why would he need to? Are you feeling vulnerable? Maybe a little credibility problem?

Let’s put the shoe on the other foot, and try it on for size.

I have unfortunately in the past been critical of the Catholic church, as an ex-member of that church. I am trying to repent of that- that is one of the reasons I avoid this board, because all you friendly Catholics who post here make me feel so welcome that I am afraid that I may respond in kind. That was sarcasm for those who could not figure it out.

I know you are not representative of the church as a whole though, thank goodness.

Anyway, suppose I came here and alleged that I was not only an ex-Catholic, but also a quasi-official ex-representative of the church- a deacon perhaps, or a teacher of catechism- one who was expected by one’s roll to be familiar with Catholic doctrine.

Suppose I alleged that I was an expert on the New Testament.

Suppose then I repeatedly got Catholic church doctrine wrong in my posts. Not just the fine points, but the very basics.

Suppose I was critical of how you “worship Mary”.

Suppose I said that you worship the saints, or statues.

Then suppose there was another poster here named “Nicodemus”.

Suppose I had a lengthy conversation with this individual regarding doctrinal matters. In the course of arguing about how Catholics believe that babies who die before baptism will go to limbo, I said something like

" Oh that Nico guy- whatever his name is- he’s wrong because…"

Suppose then somebody called me on the fact that I did not know his correct name, and I STILL was unable to make the connection that the individual’s name was “Nicodemus” who was an important character in the New Testament?

Suppose then I said that I “just got his name wrong” and that I hadn’t in fact read the New Testament in 21 years, but I just bought a new copy.

Would you for ONE MINUTE believe that I in fact used to be a catechism teacher?

That I was very familiar with or an expert on the New Testament?

That indeed I had even ever been Catholic, with the kind of mistakes I was making??

I would strongly suggest that if anyone here is interested in sincere dialogue, they go to MADB and ask sincere questions in a sincere tone, and if nothing else PM me when you get there (same name, incidentally) and I will make absolutely positive that that you get treated fairly.

I am interested in promoting Christian understanding, not debates among Christians. I must admit that I still enjoy atheist bashing, however, but I am trying to get better!

I am not interested in answering questions here because I have answered them all before and found it to be a waste of time, and that is a commodity I have very little of.

Besides, you will not believe that my position in my answers is the Mormon position- that is why you need to go to MADB so you will have multiple people telling you the same things.

I will leave it for people more spiritually advanced with more patience like Dianaiad and the others who do such a good job here.

 

[twopekinguys]

Pass.

I have seen how some non mormons asking polite questions over there have been treated.

It seems many (not you particularly) are all too eager to jump on someone and automatically assume they are a troll.

No thanks.

 

[mfbukowski]

Pass.

I have seen how some non mormons asking polite questions over there have been treated.

It seems many (not you particularly) are all too eager to jump on someone and automatically assume they are a troll.

No thanks.

The surest way to be labeled a “troll” over there is to cut and paste some argument from some anti-Mormon site like this one.

But if you ask sincerely like “I read somewhere that you believe…(cut and paste)- Is that true? I really want to know!”

Again, if you PM me here OR there, I will make sure that doesn’t happen. I will give you a full introduction and let you ask your question and will help myself to answer it. I will guarantee anyone who does that that you will not be accused of being a troll.

It’s like here.

If I posted a new topic about Catholics worshiping statues- how many sincere replies would I get?

But if I asked the way I just did- “Hey you guys- I am confused- I have heard that Catholics worship statues- is that really true? I find it hard to believe- but that is what someone said”- such a person would I think get a reasonable answer from most here.

But if I came here and said “Ha Ha you dumb Catholics worship statues! How stupid can you get?” The reaction would understandably be totally different.

Edit: and about this being an anti-mormon site:

shop.catholic.com/product.php?productid=194

You would never see anything like this there. Yes members may refer you to FAIR, but that’s members- not the site itself.

And everything on FAIR is not AGAINST a particular religion - nothing like “What to Argue against Catholics” or JW’s or whatever.

 

[twopekinguys]

The surest way to be labeled a “troll” over there is to cut and paste some argument from some anti-Mormon site like this one.

But if you ask sincerely like “I read somewhere that you believe…(cut and paste)- Is that true? I really want to know!”

Again, if you PM me here OR there, I will make sure that doesn’t happen. I will give you a full introduction and let you ask your question and will help myself to answer it. I will guarantee anyone who does that that you will not be accused of being a troll.

It’s like here.

If I posted a new topic about Catholics worshiping statues- how many sincere replies would I get?

But if I asked the way I just did- “Hey you guys- I am confused- I have heard that Catholics worship statues- is that really true? I find it hard to believe- but that is what someone said”- such a person would I think get a reasonable answer from most here.

But if I came here and said “Ha Ha you dumb Catholics worship statues! How stupid can you get?” The reaction would understandably be totally different.

I agree that the way the question is phrased or presented has everything to do with the response(s) you will get.

Unfortunately, I have seen questions presented in a very polite manner on MADB, and the first response they receive goes directly to a personal attack, instead of any type of dialog.

I understand your willingness to negate this behavior, but do you really think anyone should have to PM you ahead of time in order for their question to be taken seriously? Why should a poster need to be introduced to the community by an established member?

Something to keep in mind, and this works both ways.

If I go over there, and post a thread that isn’t worded “perfectly”, I’m probably going to be ganged up on, and probably insulted.

If you come over here, and post a thread that isn’t worded "perfectly, You’re probably going to be ganged up on, and probably insulted.

Also, tone of conversation can easily be misunderstood when reading something that was typed, as opposed to spoken. Some people are hypersensitive, and automatically see things as an attack instead of sincere dialog. Personally, I do my best to wait until the person has a few posts under their belt so to speak before I try to determine if their tone is really what I think it is.