Cupich: 'Respect must be real, not rhetorical'

[johnnyc176]

Let me rephrase myself: we should respect the person following his conscience, but I agree we shouldn’t countenance error. But we must be charitable in how we approach error

Jesus said go and sin no more…out of love.

 

[ProVobis]

For all those who are confused, its not a big secret that Bishop Cupic isnt cut from the same cloth as his predecessor Cardinal George. He said as much himself.

Definitely not. His comments could very well be directed at the press, who so far has given him much coverage. Too much perhaps when it comes to supporting local sports teams, among other things. It’s like the city has found a new friend, never mind he’s Catholic.

 

[Beircheart]

I agree that doing those things are essential but as citizens with the responsbility of voting for our representatives, we can’t simply shrug our shoulders and pretend it has nothing to do with us. We need to mobilize people of faith to vote out those who are imposing such evils on us all as well as pray and evangelize.

My discomfort with the decision emanates from several sources. Della has hit on one of the major ones. Regardless of whom we vote for, the Judicial Branch has egregiously overstepped its constitutional authority and forayed into the territory of the Legislative Branch. The Executive Branch has been doing this for nearly a century. No one cared. Now that the Judicial has done it in what appears to be a popular direction, no one cares. My question would be what makes any voter honestly believe voting will change much of anything when a) two branches of government are legislating inappropriately and 2) our electoral system has devolved into requiring quid-pro-quo from interest groups otherwise winning any election is financially out of the question?

 

[anthony022071]

The archbishop’s response is weak. It shows that he does not intend to oppose sodomite marriage. He supposes that we will all just move forward together,meaning that the Church will accept the evil law and peacefully coexist with sodomite marriage and sodomites. He is more concerned with treating sodomites with respect than with speaking the truth and acting on it. The need to respect others is not absolute. We do not need to respect people who stubbornly hold to their evil ways and who promote evil,calling it good. The people who advocate for homosexual rights and march in homosexual parades are not worthy of respect beyond that which is due to their intrinsic dignity as humans. They are not due any special courtesy. They are due sharp rebukes and forceful resistance.

This is how bishops should speak about homosexuality.

St. John Chrysostom :

“All passions are dishonorable, for the soul is even more prejudiced and degraded by sin than is the body by disease; but the worst of all passions is lust between men. . . . The sins against nature are more difficult and less rewarding, so much so that one cannot even say that they procure pleasure, since true pleasure is only the one according to nature. But when God abandons a man, everything is turned upside down! Therefore, not only are their passions [of the homosexuals] satanic, but their lives are diabolic. . . . So I say to you that these are even worse than murderers, and that it would be better to die than to live in such dishonor. A murderer only separates the soul from the body, whereas these destroy the soul inside the body. . . . There is nothing, absolutely nothing more mad or damaging than this perversity.”

St. Augustine :

“Those offences which be contrary to nature are everywhere and at all times to be held in detestation and punished; such were those of the Sodomites, which should all nations commit, they should all be held guilty of the same crime by the divine law, which hath not so made men that they should in that way abuse one another. For even that fellowship which should be between God and us is violated, when that same nature of which He is author is polluted by the perversity of lust.”

St. Peter Damian :

"Truly, this vice is never to be compared with any other vice because it surpasses the enormity of all vices.… It defiles everything, stains everything, pollutes everything. And as for itself, it permits nothing pure, nothing clean, nothing other than filth.…

"The miserable flesh burns with the heat of lust; the cold mind trembles with the rancor of suspicion; and in the heart of the miserable man chaos boils like Tartarus [Hell]…. In fact, after this most poisonous serpent once sinks its fangs into the unhappy soul, sense is snatched away, memory is borne off, the sharpness of the mind is obscured. It becomes unmindful of God and even forgetful of itself. This plague undermines the foundation of faith, weakens the strength of hope, destroys the bond of charity; it takes away justice, subverts fortitude, banishes temperance, blunts the keenness of prudence.

“And what more should I say since it expels the whole host of the virtues from the chamber of the human heart and introduces every barbarous vice as if the bolts of the doors were pulled out.”

St. Pope Pius V :

“That horrible crime, on account of which corrupt and obscene cities were burned by virtue of divine condemnation, causes Us most bitter sorrow and shocks Our mind, impelling it to repress such a crime with the highest possible zeal."

St. Bernardine of Sienna :

“No sin in the world grips the soul as the accursed sodomy; this sin has always been detested by all those who live according to God.… Deviant passion is close to madness; this vice disturbs the intellect, destroys elevation and generosity of soul, brings the mind down from great thoughts to the lowliest, makes the person slothful, irascible, obstinate and obdurate, servile and soft and incapable of anything; furthermore, agitated by an insatiable craving for pleasure, the person follows not reason but frenzy.… They become blind and, when their thoughts should soar to high and great things, they are broken down and reduced to vile and useless and putrid things, which could never make them happy… Just as people participate in the glory of God in different degrees, so also in hell some suffer more than others. He who lived with this vice of sodomy suffers more than another, for this is the greatest sin.”

tfpstudentaction.org/politically-incorrect/homosexuality/12-quotes-against-sodomy-that-every-catholic-should-know.html

tfpstudentaction.org/politically-incorrect/homosexuality/12-quotes-against-sodomy-that-every-catholic-should-know.html

 

[boar2roar]

The archbishop’s response is weak. It shows that he does not intend to oppose sodomite marriage. He supposes that we will all just move forward together,meaning that the Church will accept the evil law and peacefully coexist with sodomite marriage and sodomites. He is more concerned with treating sodomites with respect than with speaking the truth and acting on it. The need to respect others is not absolute. We do not need to respect people who stubbornly hold to their evil ways and who promote evil,calling it good. The people who advocate for homosexual rights and march in homosexual parades are not worthy of respect beyond that which is due to their intrinsic dignity as humans. They are not due any special courtesy. They are due sharp rebukes and forceful resistance.

This is how bishops should speak about homosexuality.

St. John Chrysostom :

“All passions are dishonorable, for the soul is even more prejudiced and degraded by sin than is the body by disease; but the worst of all passions is lust between men. . . . The sins against nature are more difficult and less rewarding, so much so that one cannot even say that they procure pleasure, since true pleasure is only the one according to nature. But when God abandons a man, everything is turned upside down! Therefore, not only are their passions [of the homosexuals] satanic, but their lives are diabolic. . . . So I say to you that these are even worse than murderers, and that it would be better to die than to live in such dishonor. A murderer only separates the soul from the body, whereas these destroy the soul inside the body. . . . There is nothing, absolutely nothing more mad or damaging than this perversity.”

St. Augustine :

“Those offences which be contrary to nature are everywhere and at all times to be held in detestation and punished; such were those of the Sodomites, which should all nations commit, they should all be held guilty of the same crime by the divine law, which hath not so made men that they should in that way abuse one another. For even that fellowship which should be between God and us is violated, when that same nature of which He is author is polluted by the perversity of lust.”

St. Peter Damian :

"Truly, this vice is never to be compared with any other vice because it surpasses the enormity of all vices.… It defiles everything, stains everything, pollutes everything. And as for itself, it permits nothing pure, nothing clean, nothing other than filth.…

"The miserable flesh burns with the heat of lust; the cold mind trembles with the rancor of suspicion; and in the heart of the miserable man chaos boils like Tartarus [Hell]…. In fact, after this most poisonous serpent once sinks its fangs into the unhappy soul, sense is snatched away, memory is borne off, the sharpness of the mind is obscured. It becomes unmindful of God and even forgetful of itself. This plague undermines the foundation of faith, weakens the strength of hope, destroys the bond of charity; it takes away justice, subverts fortitude, banishes temperance, blunts the keenness of prudence.

“And what more should I say since it expels the whole host of the virtues from the chamber of the human heart and introduces every barbarous vice as if the bolts of the doors were pulled out.”

St. Pope Pius V :

“That horrible crime, on account of which corrupt and obscene cities were burned by virtue of divine condemnation, causes Us most bitter sorrow and shocks Our mind, impelling it to repress such a crime with the highest possible zeal."

St. Bernardine of Sienna :

“No sin in the world grips the soul as the accursed sodomy; this sin has always been detested by all those who live according to God.… Deviant passion is close to madness; this vice disturbs the intellect, destroys elevation and generosity of soul, brings the mind down from great thoughts to the lowliest, makes the person slothful, irascible, obstinate and obdurate, servile and soft and incapable of anything; furthermore, agitated by an insatiable craving for pleasure, the person follows not reason but frenzy.… They become blind and, when their thoughts should soar to high and great things, they are broken down and reduced to vile and useless and putrid things, which could never make them happy… Just as people participate in the glory of God in different degrees, so also in hell some suffer more than others. He who lived with this vice of sodomy suffers more than another, for this is the greatest sin.”

tfpstudentaction.org/politically-incorrect/homosexuality/12-quotes-against-sodomy-that-every-catholic-should-know.html

tfpstudentaction.org/politically-incorrect/homosexuality/12-quotes-against-sodomy-that-every-catholic-should-know.html

You’d be surprised how many people as high ranking as cardinal are essentially pro homosexual marriage. If you exclude the African, Asian, and Eastern European bishops it would be a hair biting close vote I’d predict on whether they are okay with it in society (legalization) and a good chunk of that would probably support blessing/church marriage. Their have always been uber liberal bishops and cardinals but secret/implied support for something against dogma on such a wide scale will have more consequences. Forget about opposing it in the civil sphere when we have a bishops who attack the people who fight for traditional marriage always playing for “both sides” while one side is always winning. We have the pro homosexual catholic arm of the media like Stephen Colbert doesn’t get challenged but praised and rewarded. With the homosexual lobby being so powerful and aggressive they aren’t going to stop until religions get in line and with a divided church how long can it hold on when the homosexuals own the media and control the culture?

 

[zz912]

I enjoyed One Mad Mom’s take on his statement:

I didn’t see Archbishop Cupich’s statement on the SCOTUS ruling until after I posted last night. Wow! And here I was complaining about McElroy’s ambiguous statement! I think I’d take that over the Cupich’s statement! It seems this Archbishop thinks a lot of his ability to send a message without really saying anything at all, and he also seems to think he’s getting the “red hat” no matter what the heck he says or doesn’t say. Where is the Catholicism in his statement (below)? I’m really going to hope and pray the “red hat” doesn’t head to Chicago anytime soon. We need a Cardinal Cordileone, not a Cardinal Cupich! We need someone who’s going to bleed Church doctrine, not one who wants to confound and confuse everyone.

onemadmomblog.wordpress.com/2015/06/30/ab-cupich-lectures-us-instead-of-scotus/

 

[JimG]

Another quote from “One Mad Mom,” in her analysis of Archbishop Cupich’s statement.

“What the heck does that even mean? Umm, no. I don’t have to respect the false political demands of equality. In fact, I shouldn’t. There’s only one kind of marriage, and there is NOTHING equal about it. Suffice it to say that Church teaching was rather lacking in this statement. There’s no surprise that there was not one mention of the children who are going to be harmed by this.”

onemadmomblog.wordpress.com/2015/06/30/ab-cupich-lectures-us-instead-of-scotus/

 

[zz912]

Has Cardinal Dolan issued a response to the ruling yet?

 

[Crossbones]

The archbishop’s response is weak. It shows that he does not intend to oppose sodomite marriage. He supposes that we will all just move forward together,meaning that the Church will accept the evil law and peacefully coexist with sodomite marriage and sodomites. He is more concerned with treating sodomites with respect than with speaking the truth and acting on it. The need to respect others is not absolute. We do not need to respect people who stubbornly hold to their evil ways and who promote evil,calling it good. The people who advocate for homosexual rights and march in homosexual parades are not worthy of respect beyond that which is due to their intrinsic dignity as humans. They are not due any special courtesy. They are due sharp rebukes and forceful resistance.

It’s funny how uncharitable some posters are towards an Archbishop. Don’t you want to be a priest, Anthony? You are going to have to obey your bishop, you know.

 

[ringil]

Speeders have no rights either, but people still speed on the highway.

Given that the highest courts in both our countries (Canada and the US) have ruled on this issue, what do you propose we do to correct this “error”?

Mine idea is rather simple, but may take a very long time: catechize Catholics and evangelize non-Catholics.

It’s the only hope we have of making others see the beauty in Truth.

I think your statement captures the “mature and serene” approach the Bishop refers to in his statement.

We, oftentimes, see Catholic and non-Catholics respond in a strident and bombastic manner regarding the issue of same-sex marriage.

While following the lead of Pope Francis we will “catch more bees with honey than with vinegar”

 

[ringil]

It’s funny how uncharitable some posters are towards an Archbishop. Don’t you want to be a priest, Anthony? You are going to have to obey your bishop, you know.

And refrain from calling folks “sodomites”.

 

[Elizium23]

And refrain from calling folks “sodomites”.

If you aspire to being a venerable bishop, you should START calling folks sodomites, because it is in the honored tradition of the Early Church Fathers:

Justin Martyr

“[W]e have been taught that to expose newly-born children is the part of wicked men; and this we have been taught lest we should do anyone harm and lest we should sin against God, first, because we see that almost all so exposed (not only the girls, but also the males) are brought up to prostitution. And for this pollution a multitude of females and hermaphrodites, and those who commit unmentionable iniquities, are found in every nation. And you receive the hire of these, and duty and taxes from them, whom you ought to exterminate from your realm. And anyone who uses such persons, besides the godless and infamous and impure intercourse, may possibly be having intercourse with his own child, or relative, or brother. And there are some who prostitute even their own children and wives, and some are openly mutilated for the purpose of sodomy; and they refer these mysteries to the mother of the gods” (First Apology 27 [A.D. 151]).

Clement of Alexandria

“In accordance with these remarks, conversation about deeds of wickedness is appropriately termed filthy [shameful] speaking, as talk about adultery and pederasty and the like” (The Instructor6, ca. A.D. 193).

“The fate of the Sodomites was judgment to those who had done wrong, instruction to those who hear. The Sodomites having, through much luxury, fallen into uncleanness, practicing adultery shamelessly, and burning with insane love for boys; the All-seeing Word, whose notice those who commit impieties cannot escape, cast his eye on them. Nor did the sleepless guard of humanity observe their licentiousness in silence; but dissuading us from the imitation of them, and training us up to his own temperance, and falling on some sinners, lest lust being unavenged, should break loose from all the restraints of fear, ordered Sodom to be burned,
pouring forth a little of the sagacious fire on licentiousness; lest lust, through want of punishment, should throw wide the gates to those that were rushing into voluptuousness. Accordingly, the just punishment of the Sodomites became to men an image of the salvation which is well calculated for men. For those who have not committed like sins with those who are punished, will never receive a like punishment” (ibid., 8).

Augustine

“[T]hose shameful acts against nature, such as were committed in Sodom, ought everywhere and always to be detested and punished. If all nations were to do such things, they would be held guilty of the same crime by the law of God, which has not made men so that they should use one another in this way” (Confessions 3:8:15 [A.D. 400]).

Irenaeus

The Holy Ghost, throughout the Old Testament Scriptures, made mention of no other God or Lord, save him who is the true God.

1. Therefore neither would the Lord, nor the Holy Spirit, nor the apostles, have ever named as God, definitely and absolutely, him who was not God, unless he were truly God; nor would they have named any one in his own person Lord, except God the Father ruling over all, and His Son who has received dominion from His Father over all creation, as this passage has it: The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit at my right hand, until I make Your enemies Your footstool. Here the [Scripture] represents to us the Father addressing the Son; He who gave Him the inheritance of the heathen, and subjected to Him all His enemies. Since, therefore, the Father is truly Lord, and the Son truly Lord, the Holy Spirit has fitly designated them by the title of Lord. And again, referring to the destruction of the Sodomites, the Scripture says, Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrha fire and brimstone from the Lord out of heaven. Genesis 19:24 For it here points out that the Son, who had also been talking with Abraham, had received power to judge the Sodomites for their wickedness. And this [text following] does declare the same truth: Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever; the sceptre of Your kingdom is a right sceptre. You have loved righteousness, and hated iniquity: therefore God, Your God, has anointed You. For the Spirit designates both [of them] by the name, of God— both Him who is anointed as Son, and Him who does anoint, that is, the Father. And again: God stood in the congregation of the gods, He judges among the gods. He [here] refers to the Father and the Son, and those who have received the adoption; but these are the Church. For she is the synagogue of God, which God— that is, the Son Himself— has gathered by Himself. Of whom He again speaks: The God of gods, the Lord has spoken, and has called the earth. Who is meant by God? He of whom He has said, God shall come openly, our God, and shall not keep silence; that is, the Son, who came manifested to men who said, I have openly appeared to those who seek Me not. Isaiah 65:1 But of what gods [does he speak]? [Of those] to whom He says, I have said, You are gods, and all sons of the Most High. To those, no doubt, who have received the grace of the adoption, by which we cry, Abba Father. Romans 8:15

 

[ComplineSanFran]

And refrain from calling folks “sodomites”.

Agree.

That is an EXTREMELY disrespectful word, unless you are referring to the people who live in a city by that name. Even then, I would be loathe to call a person that.

It’s the 21st Century.

 

[Elizium23]

Agree.

That is an EXTREMELY disrespectful word, unless you are referring to the people who live in a city by that name. Even then, I would be loathe to call a person that.

It’s the 21st Century.

I think it’s useful. As a synonym for “homosexualists” it rings better. And it has the support of thousands of years of Tradition behind it. I think I will use this term in preference from now on.

 

[ringil]

If you aspire to being a venerable bishop, you should START calling folks sodomites, because it is in the honored tradition of the Early Church Fathers:

People were called all kinds of things historically.

Why not start calling women harlots, handicapped people cripples, and mentally challenged folks mongaloids- these are historical terms.

But bring it up to your vocations director and see what he has to tell you about calling folks “sodomites”. I’m serious.

 

[ringil]

I think it’s useful. As a synonym for “homosexualists” it rings better. And it has the support of thousands of years of Tradition behind it. I think I will use this term in preference from now on.

That’s certainly your choice.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

I think it’s useful. As a synonym for “homosexualists” it rings better. And it has the support of thousands of years of Tradition behind it. I think I will use this term in preference from now on.

It would be interesting to watch you introduce your hypothetical lesbian sibling, saying, ‘This is my Sodomite sister.’ I’m sure it would go over quite well in polite company.

 

[zz912]

I think your statement captures the “mature and serene” approach the Bishop refers to in his statement.

We, oftentimes, see Catholic and non-Catholics respond in a strident and bombastic manner regarding the issue of same-sex marriage.

While following the lead of Pope Francis we will “catch more bees with honey than with vinegar”

Thankfully Jesus didn’t take your advice when talking to people about sin.

 

[TMC]

Interesting how quickly this thread abandoned both real and rhetorical respect.