Curia Resists Papal Policies, Italian Magazine Says

[Caesar]

Jesus did not state that “upon this Curia I will build my church” did he?

If the church is suffering through some sort of Curial disease it discredits the claims of Petrine supremacy. It is demonstrating that one man cannot run the church from Roma. It tells us that the system has gone off the rails.

If the Vicar of Christ on Earth is not in complete charge of the church, how do we define what IS in charge?

This is the man whom the church claims is above even an ecumenical Council, and from whose decisions there is no appeal. Quite frankly, if the Pope’s own agenda is being thwarted by a few Curial officials or lower level hacks he’s not a real Pope.

Because that is not even conceivable, I am sure the article’s main premise is a bunch of bunk.

Michael

No need to be sarcastic.

The Pope may be the Vicar of Christ but he cannot hold people, not even the Roman Curia, against their own will.

 

[Hesychios]

Hello Ceasar,

No need to be sarcastic.

I am sorry to have offended you.

I feel fairly strongly about this issue though. I believe the church is moving at the Pope’s pace, it’s just that so many people are disappointed in that pace they are grasping for reasons, naturally it seems His Holiness is being obstructed by insiders.

I don’t buy it.

The Pope may be the Vicar of Christ but he cannot hold people, not even the Roman Curia, against their own will.

He can fire them. They are his to command.

Michael

 

[Resurrexit]

He can fire them. They are his to command.

Of course he could fire them, just as George Bush could probably order a nuclear bomb to be dropped on London. What is within his power, and what it would be wise to do, are two very different things.

His Holiness firing people left right and centre would have political reprecussions worse than them staying there and being awkward.

Similarly, it would be nice to abolish the Novus Ordo tomorrow, and He certainly could do so, but any Pope with half a brain would not. Despite His power, it is still all about politics. We must be patient, and realise that the best results take time.

 

[TNT]

…

Similarly, it would be nice to abolish the Novus Ordo tomorrow, and He certainly could do so, but any Pope with half a brain would not…

Ah, Paul VI did it just that way. One day TLM next day NO…more or less. I think it was all of 5 months to complete. & forbid the TLM as an ordinary Mass.

 

[Resurrexit]

Ah, Paul VI did it just that way. One day TLM next day NO…more or less. I think it was all of 5 months to complete. & forbid the TLM as an ordinary Mass.

Yep! And what did that do to the church? What a Pope can do and what he should are often very different.

 

[Hesychios]

Yep! And what did that do to the church? What a Pope can do and what he should are often very different.

Interesting…

**882 **The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter’s successor, “is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful.” “For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered.” CCC

“The Roman Pontiff is the true vicar of Christ, the head of the whole Church and the father and teacher of all Christians; and to him was committed in blessed Peter, by our lord Jesus Christ, the full power of tending, ruling and governing the whole Church.” Council Florence, Session 6

What is the reason for giving him this power, if he needs a Curia to restrain him? Or if he should be reluctant to change advisors?

What I am seeing on this thread is people praying for the Pope to perservere against the resistance of the Curia, with someone here actually envisioning the end of days as predicted in the Fatima third secret.

Then on the other side we hear that the Curia can function as some sort of check or fail safe to discourage a Pope from doing something stupid, as if Peter cannot be trusted.

Something is not right. I am not claiming that a Pope is impeccable, but it is clearly his job to tend and rule according to these documents.

Most peculiar, what is one to pray for?
*
Michael*

 

[Ecce_homo_1]

Of course he could fire them, just as George Bush could probably order a nuclear bomb to be dropped on London. What is within his power, and what it would be wise to do, are two very different things.

His Holiness firing people left right and centre would have political reprecussions worse than them staying there and being awkward.

Similarly, it would be nice to abolish the Novus Ordo tomorrow, and He certainly could do so, but any Pope with half a brain would not. Despite His power, it is still all about politics. We must be patient, and realise that the best results take time.

Is he the successor to Peter and the Vicar of Christ or some doubletalking Washington lobbyist? Like someone already said Paul VI tossed out 1,500 years of the liturgy and brought in his protestant Novus Ordo seemingly overnight, why not do the same thing to correct the mistake?

Fact is Luther wanted of the Mass post reformation:

1. Open Canon read
2. Services in the vernacular
3. Priest facing the people
4. No mention of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass
5. Altar table refered to as the Lord’s Table, rather than the marble altar for sacrifice.

It took a while but Luther finnally got what he wanted.

The past 40 years have been a disaster, everyone knows it, there’s too much pride to admit that the Novus Ordo Missae that was rejected by the Synod of Bishops (yet the six protestant observers had NO problems with it) has had disastrous results on the Church and needs to be corrected immediately. To fix the problem it’s going to take something very drastic, not politcal doublespeak.

 

[UKcatholicGuy]

Gratia et pax vobiscum,

Would you say that the progressives continue to hold the Curia? Would you and others say that Pope John Paul II was a member of the progressives?

Gratias

Yes, from what I can tell, the “progressives” most certainly do hold the Curia. And yes, I would say that John Paul II was very “progressive” compared to pre-conciliar popes. He seemed to have almost no respect for the traditions of the Church prior to Vatican II, but tried to bring nearly every aspect of Catholic teaching and worship (and even the Rosary) “up-to-date.”