Curious about how some people can seem to read others souls

[TraditionalCath]

i have read that there are some priests that seem to be able to read others souls. is this a grace from God that they are able to read a persons soul? didn’t Padre Pio have the ability to read people’s souls? how is it a priest or another person is able to discern what is in someone else’s soul?

 

[Joysong]

I believe this is one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit that is gradually increased as we draw closer to God spiritually. Some think it is supernatural, but it can also be very much a gift of grace. It is called the gift of counsel, whereby the Lord simply injects a thought into the person’s mind, which often “happens” to coincide with what the other needs to hear. It is so wonderful to behold Him working in us so quietly, yet so powerfully.

Maybe in saints like Padre Pio, the gift was so greatly developed in him that it was more obvious to others, but many who are close to God also experience His interior helps that just “coincidentally” fit the situation. I think St. Paul had this to a great degree, for he wrote:

1 Cor. 2:14
Now the natural person does not accept what pertains to the Spirit of God, for to him it is foolishness, and he cannot understand it, because it is judged spiritually.
15 The spiritual person, however, can judge everything but is not subject to judgment by anyone.
16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to counsel him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

Hope this helps.

Carole

 

[TraditionalCath]

I believe this is one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit that is gradually increased as we draw closer to God spiritually. Some think it is supernatural, but it can also be very much a gift of grace. It is called the gift of counsel, whereby the Lord simply injects a thought into the person’s mind, which often “happens” to coincide with what the other needs to hear. It is so wonderful to behold Him working in us so quietly, yet so powerfully.

Maybe in saints like Padre Pio, the gift was so greatly developed in him that it was more obvious to others, but many who are close to God also experience His interior helps that just “coincidentally” fit the situation.

Hope this helps.

Carole

yes it does! thank you!

 

[water]

In the case of Padre Pio, God gave him this grace to help others to come closer to God, especially during the sacrament of reconciliation.

In my opinion, I don’t think it is easy to read other souls. It is also not a gift that many can have. Look at Padre Pio - he is a great saint - the one with stigmata; he is a priest who loved to hear confessions. God had granted the gift to the saint for the greater purpose - not for him to judge others.

Even if one has this such great gift, if he does not know how to use it or if he abuses this gift - this gift itself can ruin his own soul.

 

[Joysong]

TraditionalCath:

how is it a priest or another person is able to discern what is in someone else’s soul?

While it is obvious to all of us that certain saints are able to do this with clarity, I responded to that part of Cath’s post that is less apparent and less widely experienced. Yet it does happen that spiritual persons are able to discern the spiritual ‘tendencies’ of others, even though they might not know their particular details. This, only because they have matured in the gifts bestowed in the sacrament of confirmation.

St. John of the Cross explained this in one of his chapters of the Ascent, and I think since DBT and I previously discussed this, he might be able to put his finger on the teaching, if he is reading?

 

[TOP]

In the case of Padre Pio, God gave him this grace to help others to come closer to God, especially during the sacrament of reconciliation.

In my opinion, I don’t think it is easy to read other souls. It is also not a gift that many can have. Look at Padre Pio - he is a great saint - the one with stigmata; he is a priest who loved to hear confessions. God had granted the gift to the saint for the greater purpose - not for him to judge others.

Even if one has this such great gift, if he does not know how to use it or if he abuses this gift - this gift itself can ruin his own soul.

Beware, the devil can take a rebuke and “magnifiy” it, leading one to think they have been judged. If you can “see” sin in people, he comes at you trying to draw your judgement, then attacks with what was mentioned before. I don’t think confirmation is the only way to receive something like this. An encounter with the Lord could leave a “risidual” effect and one could find themselves with ears that hear and eyes that see for a time. Tim

 

[DBT]

St. John of the Cross explained this in one of his chapters of the Ascent, and I think since DBT and I previously discussed this, he might be able to put his finger on the teaching, if he is reading?

How in the world did you know I’d be reading Sorry, couldn’t resist

Yes, Joysong, you are very right in what you say and it was you, in particular, who helped me begin to understand all this a couple of years ago right here on this very forum.

St. John of the Cross does indeed speak of “reading the minds of others” in Book 2 of the Ascent of Mt. Carmel . . . can’t remember the chapter offhand, though. And, of course, he doesn’t use the term “reading minds.” Rather, from what I recall, St. John speaks of this “knowing” as intuition or inspiration in his overall discussion of discernment of spirits.

St. John teaches intuition like this can come from three sources: the Holy Spirit, our imagination and the devil. He is very careful to explain how one can discern the source.

Inspiration from the Holy Spirit in the form of a “generalized knowing” or “anticipation of the needs of others” does indeed happen . . . I’ve witnessed it many times right here on these forums. St. John notes, however, we should be cautious in applying this gift because many times the purely spiritual is co-mingled with the human/natural (his second source). I’ve witnessed that many times too — when someone seems to hit the “nail on the head” on reading the situation but also acknowledges a sense of “mixed motives” in the intention behind what they say. St. Therese, in particular, describes this as the self-love that is often at the root of spiritual discussions — even those with the best of intentions.

Lastly, we’ll know when the hand of the devil is in the mix when we become puffed up by pride over all our wonderful insights. THAT, I’m sure, is one we’ve all witnessed.

St. John also teaches that intuition like this is of two types: of the Creator and of creatures (what we’ve been discussing). Intuition of God comes in the form of “touches” – very light infusions of His presence into our souls to recall our attention back to Him when our minds stray. Again, this is a “generalized” knowing – no “particular” knowledge is given. Touches are a very great gift and can always be trusted. Intuition of creatures, on the otherhand, should be judiciously applied as discussed due to the difficulty with discernment.

Don’t know if that helped or confused the matter

Dave.

 

[TOP]

Can this happen to one that isn’t “saintly”, but is in trouble and believes? I found myself in this situation , not knowing a thing about the seven gifts. I was saved from suicide and had “risidual” things happen after the saving grace. I was pounded into dirt by the enemy and I only had faith to help me.Tim

 

[TraditionalCath]

Can this happen to one that isn’t “saintly”, but is in trouble and believes? I found myself in this situation , not knowing a thing about the seven gifts. I was saved from suicide and had “risidual” things happen after the saving grace. I was pounded into dirt by the enemy and I only had faith to help me.Tim

that’s a good question tim. one i’d like to have answered.

 

[DBT]

Can this happen to one that isn’t “saintly”, but is in trouble and believes? I found myself in this situation , not knowing a thing about the seven gifts. I was saved from suicide and had “risidual” things happen after the saving grace. I was pounded into dirt by the enemy and I only had faith to help me.Tim

Well, I’d rather defer to Joysong on this one but two thoughts come to mind:

1. St. Teresa of Jesus (Avila) often said that God tends to pluck great sinners from our midst to bestow these type of gifts. He does it for two reasons: First, so that his glory may be more clearly manifested. Second, to draw the individual in question into a deeper union with Him. Generally speaking, if you’ve found yourself drawing closer to Christ from this experience AND you’ve noticed an increase in the practice of virtue because of it; you can probably feel comfortable you’re walking on safe ground.
2. We’re all sinners, aren’t we? And if one was truly “saintly” like you say, the soul would have no need to rely on spiritual gifts anyway. One of the things that sometimes frustrates me about St. John of the Cross is that he’ll spend page after page describing various spiritual gifts then very matter of factly say the appropriate response of the soul is to renounce them. I’m not speaking of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, mind you; rather the more extraordinary types like visions, locutions, revelations and the like.

But really it all makes sense when you stop to think about it; for what St. John of the Cross teaches is nothing but the Gospel. In short, we don’t need to “see” . . . only “believe.” And St. John’s teaching is the way of pure faith. That, in a nutshell, is the meaning behind his famous expression: nada, nada, nada . . .

Hope this helps some . . .
Dave.

 

[Joysong]

Hi Dave,

I found the teaching in Bk. II of the Ascent, Ch. 26:

1. But over and above these habits or graces freely bestowed, what we say is that persons who are perfect or are making progress in perfection are wont very commonly to receive enlightenment and knowledge of things present or absent; these they know through their spirit, which is already enlightened and purged. We can interpret that passage from the Proverbs in this sense, namely: Even as there appear in the waters the faces of those that look therein, so the hearts of men are manifest to the prudent.

This is understood of those that have the wisdom of saints, which the sacred Scripture calls prudence. And in this way these spirits sometimes learn of other things also, although not whensoever they will; for this belongs only to those that have the habit, and even to these it belongs not always and with respect to all things, for it depends upon God’s will to help them.

1. But it must be known that those whose spirits are purged can learn by natural means with great readiness, and some more readily than others, that which is in the inward spirit or heart, and the inclinations and talents of men, and this by outward indications, albeit very slight ones, as words, movements and other signs.

For, even as the devil can do this, since he is spirit, even so likewise can the spiritual man, according to the words of the Apostle, who says: ‘He that is spiritual judgeth all things.’ And again he says: ‘The spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.’

Wherefore, although spiritual persons cannot by nature know thoughts, or things that are in the minds of others, they may well interpret them through supernatural enlightenment or by signs. And, although they may often be deceived in their interpretation of signs, they are more generally correct.

All I could remember with certainty from St. John of the Cross’s teaching was the scripture from St. Paul, and I quoted it earlier in the thread, but I had the feeling there was a better way of explaining his thought more clearly and got out the book.

I think for the majority of people, God simply puts thoughts in their mind that ‘happen’ to focus on something the other was needing. Remember St. Therese commenting on this? That her sisters were certain she read their minds? Yet she admits there was nothing extraordinary about the ‘coincidence’ other than the indwelling Trinity brought it to her mind.

Thank you for helping us. It has been many months, I realize. You have an excellent grasp of that discussion, and a good memory! (But I think you also know it by experience, too.)

 

[DBT]

I think for the majority of people, God simply puts thoughts in their mind that ‘happen’ to focus on something the other was needing. Remember St. Therese commenting on this? That her sisters were certain she read their minds? Yet she admits there was nothing extraordinary about the ‘coincidence’ other than the indwelling Trinity brought it to her mind.

Yes, Joysong, that sums it all up very well

Dave.

 

[Joysong]

I guess, Dave, we could say of St. Therese, that her ‘coincidences’ were extraordinarily ordinary!

 

[water]

Here is something happening to me lately:

Two people involve in Charismatic …

• First person said to me: I “sensed” no devil spirit in you. You are a good person.
• Second person told others, not me, that I had bad spirits in me and that is the reason why this person did not want to invite me to the Bible study.

I let you all think about this a little bit - what is the reason of having a gift from God - to judge others or to help others come closer to God.

 

[Joysong]

Re the second friend:
No way,Water! God doesn’t reveal things like that. You might remember who does, in this scripture: Rev. 12:10 Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: because the accuser of our brethren is cast forth, who accused them before our God day and night.

St. Teresa of Avila, due to her spiritual union with God, was granted visions of certain persons who had died and were not in God’s grace. But she didn’t TELL anyone! I can’t imagine anyone doing that to another. Take comfort, though, for the pharisees called Jesus Beelzebub, and we are not exempt from the imprudent judgment of others.

Carole

 

[water]

This is the verse that I discussed with the second person mentioned in my previous post and with some others, and their response to me was: “Jesus wasn’t talking to any of us, he was talking to bad people.”.

Mathew 7: 22-27
22 On that day many will say to me, “Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many deeds of power in your name?” 23 Then I will declare to them, “I never knew you; go away from me, you evildoers.”

 

[TOP]

Here is something happening to me lately:

Two people involve in Charismatic …

• First person said to me: I “sensed” no devil spirit in you. You are a good person.
• Second person told others, not me, that I had bad spirits in me and that is the reason why this person did not want to invite me to the Bible study.

I let you all think about this a little bit - what is the reason of having a gift from God - to judge others or to help others come closer to God.

At first I went back to the Church, had confirmation and marriage blessed by the Church. Going to confession was like peeling an onion. It took many visits. I found myself wanting to “save” others. I told everyone of my family and workmates what God had done for me. Thats when I started to see things like doubt, anger…These were entities, anti-virtues. Somehow pride found its way into my intentions. I tried to do it alone. This is why I had it so rough. The devil took it and ran with it. So , I’m back to faith and hope again. Hoping the bad things that where said to me was just a ploy by the devil and faith in God’s mercy. He always leaves room for faith, I think. Tim

 

[water]

At first I went back to the Church, had confirmation and marriage blessed by the Church. Going to confession was like peeling an onion. It took many visits. I found myself wanting to “save” others. I told everyone of my family and workmates what God had done for me. Thats when I started to see things like doubt, anger…These were entities, anti-virtues. Somehow pride found its way into my intentions. I tried to do it alone. This is why I had it so rough. The devil took it and ran with it. So , I’m back to faith and hope again. Hoping the bad things that where said to me was just a ploy by the devil and faith in God’s mercy. He always leaves room for faith, I think. Tim

I think what we call that is spiritual pride, or something it is just impatience. When we’ve tasted the mercy of God, we want others to have this great experience too. Sometimes, our own patience runs out and we tend not to allow the Holy Spirit work through us or through the people whom we hope them to change.

TOP, I remembered I read your post that your wife prayed for you 10 years and later you converted to Catholic right? - she is very patient and has faith in God. Your example gives me much hope in my daily praying for my loved ones as well.

 

[TOP]

Re the second friend:
No way,Water! God doesn’t reveal things like that. You might remember who does, in this scripture: Rev. 12:10 Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: because the accuser of our brethren is cast forth, who accused them before our God day and night.

St. Teresa of Avila, due to her spiritual union with God, was granted visions of certain persons who had died and were not in God’s grace. But she didn’t TELL anyone! I can’t imagine anyone doing that to another. Take comfort, though, for the pharisees called Jesus Beelzebub, and we are not exempt from the imprudent judgment of others.

Carole

This confirms my thoughts. But, how the Lord can bend it so His end is accomplished. I’ll have to read some St. John of the cross. Thanks Tim

 

[TOP]

I think what we call that is spiritual pride, or something it is just impatience. When we’ve tasted the mercy of God, we want others to have this great experience too. Sometimes, our own patience runs out and we tend not to allow the Holy Spirit work through us or through the people whom we hope them to change.

TOP, I remembered I read your post that your wife prayed for you 10 years and later you converted to Catholic right? - she is very patient and has faith in God. Your example gives me much hope in my daily praying for my loved ones as well.

I have always been Catholic, thats been my saftey net. I didn’t practice from 8 to 34. She hoped I’d change for 17 years. I had such a feeling of limited time when it first happened. I have learned alot since then. Tim