Curious - Sunday Mass Mistake

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This an abuse. Perhaps you might like to bring it up to him?
 
It seems to me that “an abuse” implies an intent, nothing of the sort happened in the OP case.
 
joeybaggz said:
A curious thing happened today at the Sunday Mass I attended. The celebrant omitted an important part of the mass. I think because he misread the wording or something has been omitted. It wasn’t intentional since I know this priest has been saying Mass for over 20 years. He was saying the prayer leading up to the part where the proper begins with the words Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God of Hosts - something that is usually sung. He then went immediately to the Consecration holding up the Bread and then the wine. He skipped the prayer that says, "Lord let your spirit come upon these gifts like the dewfall ……
Some people were wondering if the Consecration was valid and if the bread and wine were really transformed due to the slip up. Opinions???
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He made a slip up. The church would be better if you ran out and got him a coffee or whatever he needed rather than going on an internet forum about if it was valid. You know him enough to know it was an accident and even if it was (which it isn’t) that wouldn’t change a thing as it’s in the past.

The only thing you can change is how you ensure your priest is well-cared for.
 
Looking at it objectively, an abuse happened. It would be good if the OP could bring it up to him.
 
Yea, a priest has been faithfully serving the church for 20 years, one time he makes a mistake, and the OP goes up and tells him it was an abuse of the liturgy. Great idea…
 
tafan2 said:
Yea, a priest has been faithfully serving the church for 20 years, one time he makes a mistake, and the OP goes up and tells him it was an abuse of the liturgy. Great idea…
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I’ve had two posts flagged and removed so far on this post. It has been a real good learning experience as to the attitudes of a lot of the members of this forum. It certainly will influence my desire to continue contributing anything.
But tafan, this post of yours takes the cake. I might suggest that you go back to the OP and see where I went up to him and told him it was an abuse of the liturgy. Actually, I never said a word to him. I figured Father was tired or distracted and it was an oversight. I have a lot more tact and charity than you are willing to allow for. Actually, the priest is a friend, we talk often, he is my de facto spiritual director, and my consistent confessor. We’ll meet in 2 seeks in confession, I’ll mention it to him, and knowing him he’ll probably chuckle, and say it’s a once in a career thing, and we’ll move on. An abuse? NO, and I suggest you really read a post before you level accusations of the sort.
 
Xanthippe_Voorhees said:
You’re not American so I’m going to give you an ignorance pass on this one. American priests are currently worked to the bone. It’s an absolute miracle that they can tie their shoes, nevermind be presentable and say (several!) Sunday Masses.
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Who is not an American?
 
Joeybaggz, I am with you all the way, big misunderstanding here. I was replying to another poster who called this an abuse. My reply was meant to be quite sarcastic to him.

I would not say a word to the good priest about it. Honest mistake, perhaps (conflicting opinions from clerics) serious consequences, but still an honest mistake. Let the good man be in peace.

Sorry for the confusion.
 
Nelka said:
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Diaconia:
Not if the epiclesis was omitted.
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???

Catholicism makes me feel stupid, all the time.
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😆

I think I know it pretty well, including the liturgy, but that threw me.

Fortunately, a few posts later we learned the meaning of epiclesis.
 
Thank you tafan. I’ve been a bit surprised at some of the responses to my OP. As I said, the priest in question is my confessor, spiritual advisor, and a considered friend. I’ll mention it to him in confession just to give him an idea of some of the words I have heard her on CAF. I know we’ll have a good chuckle, we both know the Lord was in that basilica that day and was present to all who approached the “communion rail.” I think the Lord I worship has the eternally best sense of humor.
Again, thanks for your reply.
 
Nelka said:
I looked it up and couldn’t say for sure exactly what it is.
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Not sure to what you are referring. If it is the word epiclesis, I simply googled it and got a good definition that seems correct and consistent with the Catholic prayer of Eucharist institution.
 
Nelka said:
I looked it up and couldn’t say for sure exactly what it is.
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From post #7, I gather that the epiclesis is the passage which is the OP subject, ie. “Lord let your spirit come upon these gifts like the dewfall ……”
Diaconia said:
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The questioner asked if the priest changed the bread and wine; which he did not. The epiclesis (calling down of the Holy Spirit) is required.

In The Divine Liturgy the consecratory words occur before the epiclesis. Without both, the gifts are not changed.
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It is also a total surprise to me that this is part of the minimal requirement for a valid consecration. Glad to have learned that.
 
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joeybaggz said:
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Xanthippe_Voorhees:
You’re not American so I’m going to give you an ignorance pass on this one. American priests are currently worked to the bone. It’s an absolute miracle that they can tie their shoes, nevermind be presentable and say (several!) Sunday Masses.
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Who is not an American?
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Adam is from Ireland. From my understanding, the priest stress situation is nowhere near like what Americans face.
 
Xanthippe_Voorhees said:
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joeybaggz:
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Xanthippe_Voorhees:
You’re not American so I’m going to give you an ignorance pass on this one. American priests are currently worked to the bone. It’s an absolute miracle that they can tie their shoes, nevermind be presentable and say (several!) Sunday Masses.
Click to expand...
Who is not an American?
Click to expand...
Adam is from Ireland. From my understanding, the priest stress situation is nowhere near like what Americans face.
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Thanks XV. I wasn’t sure who you were referring to. I’ve made it known in many posts I live near Pittsburgh in western PA. Thought maybe something I posted gave the impression my response was consistent with another culture.
 
Edmundus1581 said:
It is also a total surprise to me that [the epiclesis] is part of the minimal requirement for a valid consecration.
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East and West have disagreed about whether the words of institution or the Epiclesis is the necessary prayer for the consecration of the Eucharist. The Western view has been that the words of Christ invoke the action of Christ, while the East held the coming of the Holy Spirit is what effects the change.

This was not trivial, since the Roman Canon barely has an epiclesis, leaving the West open to accusations that the Eucharist was invalid for many centuries!

Both should be included, as the Roman missal has it now. And all should give glory to the Trinity, who work together to bring the grace of God to all of us, even when we make mistakes.
 
To look at it another way:

In the West the epiclesis comes first, then the institution narrative - thus the elements are changed at the words of Christ.

In the East, the institution narrative comes first, and then the epiclesis - thus the elements are changed at the epiclesis.

Which makes perfect sense: both the words that Jesus spoke AND the epiclesis (calling down of the Holy Spirit to transform the gifts) are coupled together in both the East and the West.

Fill us all with the Eucharist, the source and summit of our Faith,
Deacon Christopher
 
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