Current living conditions are incompatible with holiness

[stogs]

Please tell me your opinion of these…

21 - “ Some would consider such hopes utopian. It may be that these persons are not realistic enough, and that they have not perceived the dynamism of a world, which desire to live more fraternally-…Pope Paul VI, On the Development of Peoples, # 79.

22 - “ Layman should take it up as their own proper task the renewal of the temporal order. If the role of the hierarchy is to teach and to interpret authentically the norms of morality to be followed in this matter, it belongs to the laity, without waiting passively for orders and directives, to take the initiative freely and to infuse a Christian spirit into the mentality, customs, laws and structures of the community in which they live.” Pope Paul VI , On The Development of Peoples, (1967) # 81.

 

[Coreopisis]

Please tell me your opinion of these…

21 - “ Some would consider such hopes utopian. It may be that these persons are not realistic enough, and that they have not perceived the dynamism of a world, which desire to live more fraternally-…Pope Paul VI, On the Development of Peoples, # 79.

22 - “ Layman should take it up as their own proper task the renewal of the temporal order. If the role of the hierarchy is to teach and to interpret authentically the norms of morality to be followed in this matter, it belongs to the laity, without waiting passively for orders and directives, to take the initiative freely and to infuse a Christian spirit into the mentality, customs, laws and structures of the community in which they live.” Pope Paul VI , On The Development of Peoples, (1967) # 81.

As for 21 - The context is missing so I am not sure what hopes they are referencing. As for the desire to live more fraternally that could mean a few different things depending on the overall context of the message. It could be a desire to live more like brothers accross the world… it is hard to say,

22 - Again context is missing so there could be a few different meanings here but it sounds to me that the Pope is essentially asking the lay person to take the initiative to behave and infuse christian values into where they currently live.

From what you are showing me here it sounds like we are being asked to go forth and behave as Christians in teh community in which we already live.

Not sure why you are asking me this unless you are trying to prove your ideas which I see these as going against. If you were to separate out yourself into a separate society you would be going against what he is asking you to do which is to bring the christian spirit to everyone else by using it in our communities which we currently live in.

 

[Coreopisis]

FYI - responses to your answers:
"We would follow the ten commandments, be under local and federal law, the rules would be enforced by a leader and committees unanimously selected by the people just like the Communities of Work in France. " - This is alot like Jehovah’s Witnesses who also follow the ten commandments and have a committee of leaders who enforce their ideals. There are certain punishments that are implemented depending on the rule breaking. They are also defined as a cult.

“We would keep it holy by giving the whole community up to God. We would grow in love for each other by taking care of the physically and mentally disabled as well as working the earth.” You don’t have to create a separate community to do this. You could become a Monk or go do work as Mother Theresa did.

“People who join have to agree to respect each other’s religious beliefs. Participants must believe that at least an intermediary goal is that the “mission of man is to improve, transform and perfect nature and to draw the best out of it for the good of all men and of himself” (from All Things Common). Obviously, the primary goal of Christians is to glorify God and Christians will be given the opportunity to achieve that goal. We don’t force anyone to join Catholicism or even Christianity. We want to give people the opportunity to pursue truth.” - How can you perfect nature which God has already perfected in its very creation? Again Jehovah’s witnesses literally pursue the ‘truth.’

Actually I am now realizing that aside from the communal living this seems to have more in common wiht the Witnesses than it does with Catholicism. And since you would essentially be creating your own rules, not governed by Catholicism, (as you would allow any Christian to pursue the “truth”) I find it interesting that you care at all what the Pope says. In fact the Pope says that we Catholicism is the one religion and such quotes which I don’t have time to look up right now would go against what you are proposing here. Jehovah’s witnesses have defined what they believe the “truth” is. Their community started off a lot like yours. The next questions would be what is the truth? Doesn’t the Catholic church teach the truth and if so why wouldn’t you call in a Priest to help you?

Now I understand why you wouldn’t go for Papal approval, you wouldn’t gain it because you really wouldn’t be living under Catholic values, which by the way the Pope supports.

But I can understand why you are trying to use Papal quotes to validate your statements because you are on a Catholic forum after all.

I will pray for you that you will not be led further astray and that you will not lead any one else to stray with you.

God Bless.

 

[Coreopisis]

One final thought:

Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that they are the only ones who will be saved and so aside from spreading the word of God or preaching they completely limit their contact with others outside their faith.

This is also essentially what you would be doing with this community which is isolating yourself from the evil of this world.

This is part of the reason they are a cult is because of that isolation piece.

This is shakey ground that you are treading. Again good luck and God bless.