Current Moral Ethics

[Apathy]

Hello all,
I am a secular person and I am sure in the eyes of many of you completely throw my validity out the window… However, in the current light of issues I have seen in America… There is a resurgence in the Idea that life is something that has to be re-examined to the degree we must judge when someone is entitled to live their life or not.

I just would like to chime in with a bit of harsh opprobrium as to why exactly it is religious individuals enact mandates on others lives such as in the Schiavo incident… whilst their own priests enact horrific sexual acts on children and John Paul, whom I respect did not do anything to remove those individuals from the Church or condone the safe sex possibilities to those combating AIDS in Africa.

Ive been told God is the voice of reason and logic.
It would be most re-assuring to me if that claim was proven by those who pray to him.

 

[felra]

Apathy:

Hello all,
I am a secular person and …

I just would like to chime in with a bit of harsh opprobrium as to why exactly it is religious individuals enact mandates on others lives …

Ive been told God is the voice of reason and logic.
It would be most re-assuring to me if that claim was proven by those who pray to him.

Faith is a gift that only God can give.

Faith***, noun; ***

1. 
   *]Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
   *]Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.
   *]often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God’s will.

 

[Apathy]

I understand the point you are trying to infer.
However… I just wish there was much more done to those who speak Gods wisdom with corrupted tounges… Understand?

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

Apathy:

However… I just wish there was much more done to those who speak Gods wisdom with corrupted tounges… Understand?

Unfortunately that is the down side to free will. We all, religious or not, have the responsibilty and freedom to make our own choices.

For years I was very anti-religion; especially “organized” religion, with the Catholics being at the top of the hypocrite hit list.

It wasn’t until I really started to learn about all kinds of spiritual beliefs (from New Age type stuff to Bhuddism right on down to the Roman Catholic Church) that I began to understand that we cannot judge a religion based on it’s members, but we need to base our judgement on Truth.

The poular saying “the Church isn’t a museum of Saints, it’s a hospital for sinners” really began to make sense to me.

As long as there is a Catholic Church, there will be those who attack it… from the outside as well as from within.

I hope that you will be able to see past “those who speak God’s wisdom with corrupted tongues” and see the Truth that is the Catholic Church.

Malia

 

[demolitionman65]

I just would like to chime in with a bit of harsh opprobrium as to why exactly it is religious individuals enact mandates on others lives such as in the Schiavo incident… whilst their own priests enact horrific sexual acts on children and John Paul, whom I respect did not do anything to remove those individuals from the Church or condone the safe sex possibilities to those combating AIDS in Africa

Apathy, while I deeply appreciate your politeness (I am quite serious on this point), you are illustrating one of the oldest canards in the book. Because the Church includes people who do not maintain fidelity to their oaths, the entire Church then becomes invalid in the eyes of the unbelievers.

Find me an organization that teaches some form of charity, and consists entirely of simon-pure adherents with no stain of hypocrisy in any form, and then I will drop my Catholicism in favor of that organization. I am sure most readers of CatholicAnswers would agree with me. We would be confident in this offer, because the organization I am challenging you to find does not exist. It never has, not for an extended period of time, at any rate.

The Catholic Church is a divine mission, carried out by fallen humans. That humanity automatically predicts certain forms of failure. Even St. Paul mentions this: “I do the things I should not, and those things I should do I do not.”

 

[Lisa_N]

Apathy:

I just would like to chime in with a bit of harsh opprobrium as to why exactly it is religious individuals enact mandates on others lives such as in the Schiavo incident… whilst their own priests enact horrific sexual acts on children and John Paul, whom I respect did not do anything to remove those individuals from the Church or condone the safe sex possibilities to those combating AIDS in Africa…

I am not sure what you mean by ‘mandate.’ You can read the CCC and if you are a Catholic presumably you recognize it as the truth and you live by the truth. However say you fail in some respect (don’t we all?) . What Apathy do you think the Church or any other authority is going to do about it? As long as the act is legal, it becomes between the person, their confessor (if any) and God. A priest may after reconciliation provide a penance but again the pentinent can choose whether or not to perform the penance.

You are obviously not well versed in the priest scandal. It was not a case of pedophelia, i.e. sexual exploitation of pre pubescent children but of boys who were over age 13. Yes the acts are still reprehensible but so many people mischaracterize the issue. It was a problem of allowing predatory homosexual priests to use the Church as a hunting ground. Disgusting yes but again, we’re all sinners. That some people fail and fail miserably, does not negate the Church’s TEACHINGS. After all, had the person adhered to his vows he would not be in this state of sin in the first place.

The Catholic church is very hierarchial. While you may suggest the buck stops ‘here’ with respect to the Pope, the reality is that day to day operations and appointments of every single parish on the earth do not pass through they Pope’s hands and receive his approval. If that were the case we would not need any hierarchy. I agree the Bishops failed miserably to respond appropriately. But you cannot say it was the Pope’s fault these evil men were not removed.

As to the “safe sex” that is an oxymoron. The only ‘safe’ sex is no sex. So if people adhered to the Church’s teachings about sex they would not be spreading AIDS. Again how do you blame the Pope for the poor decisions and irresponsible actions of thousand if not millions of people who may or may not even know of the Pope’s existence.

Apathy:

Ive been told God is the voice of reason and logic.
It would be most re-assuring to me if that claim was proven by those who pray to him.

There is complete logic and reason to the teachings of the Church. Again you are mistaken Catholicism for Catholics. Catholicism is the fullness of truth. Catholics are human and we all fall short of the mark.

Lisa N

 

[Gordon_N]

Apathy:

Hello all,
I am a secular person and I am sure in the eyes of many of you completely throw my validity out the window… .

Not necessarily! Many a good points have come from “secular” persons…

Apathy:

I just would like to chime in with a bit of harsh opprobrium as to why exactly it is religious individuals enact mandates on others lives such as in the Schiavo incident…

No enacting of mandates by “religious individuals” in this case. Just a condemnation of what was happening. I agree with the Church’s position on Terri’s case. She required no “heroic” life saving attempts or treatment - just food and water…

Apathy:

whilst their own priests enact horrific sexual acts on children

Not the majority by any means… And definately not the only church to have problems as such. I have some interesting links on many others. The JW’s seem to be fairly bad off, and there system requires silence and no reporting of anything outside their immediate kingdom hall - that is dictated by their hierarchy.

Apathy:

and John Paul, whom I respect did not do anything to remove those individuals from the Church

See Lisa N’s post above - she hits that one pretty good!

Apathy:

or condone the safe sex possibilities to those combating AIDS in Africa.

Because condeming any form of “safe sex” aside from abstinance is what Church teaching requires. All forms of birth control are contrary to God’s love and teaching. Why should we change His word to suit our moral corruption in the 21st century?

Peace,

Gordon

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

I would like to offer a little (name removed by moderator)ut.

1. priests molesting kids.
   Further to what has been said.
   The % of paedophiles and molesters in the clergy, as compared to the rest of sociey is miniscule. You need to understand what the consequences of original sin are and have faith, to fully appreciate this.
2. Gods laws.
   We are told we have to obey the 10 commandments , the laws of the Church, and the teachings of Christ. Why?
   In this universe everything is governed by laws. The laws of physics, etc etc. We must recognise that we can, but should not defy these laws. if we do it’s to our own detriment. if I want to challenge the law of gravity, and jump off a ten story building, then I am doomed. It’s the same with the laws that govern us. God has written his law on our hearts. We know it’s wrong to kill, steal, lie, bear false witness etc etc. But our minds become darkened and our consciences mutated when we fail to hear Gods will and obey His laws This is a result of original sin. The Church is not only a moral teacher, but she instructs us in how to be fully human, she nourishes us spiritually with the wod of God and the sacraments. The Church is helping us to become a full and free human being. If you are far from God you cannot see the consequences of your sins. But there are consequences. Sin is the cause of every evil in the world. And as Jesus said, " he who sins, is a slave to sin.".
   He also said, “the truth will set you free.”. How can you be free without knowing the truth, and if you are powerless to overcome your sins. This is what the Church is trying to rectify, the sorry state we are in as a ersult of original sin.
   You could say we are free, but are we free. We are only free to do good for ourselves and others. We are not free to do evil. We can do evil , but there are consequences for it.
   There is a famous quote from an atheist,
   " I know there is no God, but I pray there is no hell.".
   The question always arises how can a loving God send people to hell? Simply, God does not. They choose it. God is bound by His word. It’s up to us to take him seriously.