Cursillo

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puzzleannie said:
just because a particular retreat experience does not seem to speak to your own needs at a given time, does not mean the presentation has nothing of value to offer, nor does that mean it is necessarily unorthodox.
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I suspect that is the case more often than not. At virtually every retreat or encounter weekend I’ve ever participated in, there is always someone, (or couple) who, from the get-go, are determined that the gathering is or will be somehow flawed. And, they will tune out every opportunity to gain something valuable from attending in order to somehow prove their point.

What you put in, you get out. Garbage in, Garbage out.
 
we are all probably at different stages in life and spiritual growth, and while some people may benefit greatly from the testimony-sharing-hugging thing, others will be so repelled that they get no benefit from it. Much better to know what to expect going in than to waste the time and money. I question whether Cursillo, the course (there is a retreat component but every gathering is not a retreat) should even be called a retreat. The word has different meanings to different people in different contexts. I have even attended business meetings labeled as retreats, namely because they took place away from the office in a neutral setting.

I still think advice of a spiritual director is of value in choosing a retreat, a retreat center, and a director. For instance I have heard complaints directed at the religious order who hosts a retreat at their facility, even when it was presented by outsiders who just rented the space. So we also have to be carefuly how we criticize.
 
Its great you are thinking of attending Cursillo. Understand though that Cursillo is not a retreat nor is it a program. It is also not recommended for persons who are not in a position to receive the sacraments. It is not meant as a cure all to problems you may be dealing with personally. It is intended to form leaders who will go out into all aspects of life and spread the gospel through charity and unselfishness.
Have a great day
 
***As long as you keep criticizing the HMC… ***

Anyone seen me criticize a single actual teaching of the Church? I think you have mis-identified clergy as Church. That’s really weird. Good topic for another thread.
 
What you put in, you get out. Garbage in, Garbage out.

Well, that’s just silly. A bad (as in heterodox, or simply poorly-planned) retreat is a bad retreat. Play words games as long as you want, you won’t convince me that good is bad or bad is good.
 
I thought the thread was about Cursillo.

I think if people want to talk about ACTS, they should probably start a new thread.

And I, for one, am not smart enough to know how many, or even if any, of the priests in my diocese teach incorrectly. I suspect I am not the only like that either.

But if someone wants to talk about the orthodoxy of priests, that sounds off topic for this thread too.

So, where did Cursillo originate?
 
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rpp:
So, where did Cursillo originate?
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Spain. I think around the end of WWII time frame. I could be wrong on both accounts. It wouldn’t be the first time.
 
correct, 1944 in Spain,
click on the earlier link on the bio of the founder.
 
Cursillo was founded by Eduardo Bonnín Aguiló, in Spain. Cursillo was given to him by God in its wholeness. Nothing is to be added or subracted. When people do so that’s when fruity (or nutty;) ) things like teddy bears, rainbows or whatever show up. Some people get attached to these things and think that is the most important part of the weekend.

The weekly groupings are the heart of Cursillo and even it has a format to keep things from going off track.

As others have said it is done differently in different areas because some people think they can improve upon it.
 
it is also worth noting that a person or group cannot just decide to “do” Cursillo on their own. they must have diocesan approval even to get the training and order the course materials.
 
Howard_Roark said:
What you put in, you get out. Garbage in, Garbage out.

Well, that’s just silly. A bad (as in heterodox, or simply poorly-planned) retreat is a bad retreat. Play words games as long as you want, you won’t convince me that good is bad or bad is good.
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A retreat is just like Mass in the sense that…if you go in with a poor attitude looking for a reason to be annoyed, you will most certainly find it. Your post history would seem to follow that trend.
 
puzzleannie said:
we are all probably at different stages in life and spiritual growth, and while some people may benefit greatly from the testimony-sharing-hugging thing, others will be so repelled that they get no benefit from it. Much better to know what to expect going in than to waste the time and money. I question whether Cursillo, the course (there is a retreat component but every gathering is not a retreat) should even be called a retreat. The word has different meanings to different people in different contexts. I have even attended business meetings labeled as retreats, namely because they took place away from the office in a neutral setting.

I still think advice of a spiritual director is of value in choosing a retreat, a retreat center, and a director. For instance I have heard complaints directed at the religious order who hosts a retreat at their facility, even when it was presented by outsiders who just rented the space. So we also have to be carefuly how we criticize.
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I agree with puzzleannie here. A Cursillo is not a “retreat” although I usually say it’s like a retreat since when you say it’s not a retreat, people then ask, “Well, what is it?”

I also agree with getting advice from a spiritual director as to what would be best for one’s particular spiritual life. I mean, you can have an Ignatian spirituality and want to make a retreat at a certain Ignatian retreat house which shall remain nameless, and find a program that purportedly mixes Ignatius with Zen :confused: , so yes, it’s good to know a little ahead of time and not waste your money and your time.
 
Howard_Roark said:
What do you think I’m afraid of? Being trapped on the “other side of the river” with 100 wacko men crying and hugging each other and telling each other it’s OK, that you don’t have to be Catholic, and that God understands about the abortions and divorces and drugs.

If YOU have never been trapped for a long weekend on the other side of the river with loonies, thank God for your good fortune.

As for me, I went on an ACTS retreat shortly after my conversion.

We had no clergy present for most of the retreat, when clergy did show up they were nuts (San Antonio diocese, so that is a given). The presenters were laymen who knew ZERO about the teachings of the Church and gave these long windy talks designed to make people cry. The “retreat team” knew ZERO about the Chrurch, told us again and again and again that “God doesn’t care if you’re Catholic or not” and discussed among themselves whom they could get to “pop” (go on a crying jag).

Mass was a shambles, because about 25% of the retreatants were non-Catholics. At first they had “open communion” but switched to “only if you feel in your heart that this is Jesus” by the end of the weekend. I was an altar server and EMHC for one of the Masses (I have since repented). After Mass, Fr. told me “Just pour out the wine on the ground if you like, this is natural ground”. It wasn’t until later than I found out that many classes of Seminarians in San Anotnio were taught that along the way…hence my suspicion that most priests and EMHCs in this diocese are LS excommunicated anyway. Since I “believed in my heart” that indeed that was the Blood of Christ, I consumed it, of course!

This is only the tip. Much more happened, but nobody cares anyway. Anyone who would ask “what are you afraid of”…I just don’t know what to say. This. This is what I’m afraid of. The damn crazy liberal wacko nutballs who pass for “Involved Catholics” in my diocese.

Honestly, if I had not been so new to area, and I knew the geography better at the time, I would have just left the reteat on foot…walked across the bridge and down the highway.

Oh, and these sorts of retreats cannot be criticized in our diocese. ACTS is “wonderful” and anyone who thinks differently is “medeival”. In point of fact, ACTS is a project of the Missionary Oblates who teach theology at the diocesan seminary here, and are wackos beyond belief. Well-known heretic Fr. Ronald Rolheiser is a San Anotnio Oblate…why the Church can’t seem to find a way to shut him up and send him to away to a monastery in the mountains is beyond me. Oh right, I forgot, my Bishop is a Tool.

My advice - Don’t ever get on a bus with a bunch of people and agree to be locked up on “the other side of the river” for a long weekend with them until you know what they are about. Period.

Damn right I’m angry, just to anticipate the question.
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:rotfl: :rotfl: :bigyikes: Have you recovered??
 
PBP said:
Its great you are thinking of attending Cursillo. Understand though that Cursillo is not a retreat nor is it a program. It is also not recommended for persons who are not in a position to receive the sacraments. It is not meant as a cure all to problems you may be dealing with personally. It is intended to form leaders who will go out into all aspects of life and spread the gospel through charity and unselfishness.
Have a great day
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Thats what I understand it is supposed to be. My question is really what IS it. I understand secrecy and why they might not want to have the wind stolen from their sails…but I also understand that many of us live in a spiritual wasteland. I want to make sure I’m not contributing to the squalor by taking part in a program that isn’t solidly founded in good, solid catholicism. I can drive a few short miles to any one of the parishes near me and get that.

There’s a reason my Parish is over 30 minutes away by interstate – even though I could walk to 2 of them in less time than that.
 
I made my Cursillo in 1982 and worked a team, also, plus I attended Leader’s School, Ultreya, and belong to a Group Reunion, so I think I am qualified to speak a little on the subject.

Cursillo is referred to by people involved in the movement as a “short course in Christianity”. The weekend is intended to develop leaders in the Church who will then go out and evangelize their environments. By evangelize their environments, I do not mean street preaching, prosetylizing,etc., but to live fully the Christian life and witnessing to Christ in your own environment–home, work, school, church, etc. It is intended for practicing Catholics,and it is not for those who have severe problems, such as emotional problems, addictions, etc.

The weekend consists of a series of talks given by lay Cursillistas and clergy, and the talks are structured around certain themes. The talks are structured and must contain certain key points, and the person giving the talk relates how he/she incorporates these areas into their lives. These have been somewhat revised, but when I gave my talk, which was on Study, I addressed these key points and showed how I incorporated them into my life as a Christian. The talks given by the priest cover such areas as the Sacraments and are teachings.

There is group interaction afterwards. This forms a close bond between the participants. There is a lot of prayer, singing, Mass, Confession, silence, Marian devotion that goes on also. The idea is to form a Christian Community bound in love by Christ. The Holy Spirit is very present in a Cursillo, but it is NOT Charismatic. The devotions, prayers, etc., are very traditional, and in 1982, I had not seen some of these things in years. After the Cursillo the participant is encouraged to join the larger Cursillo community at the Ultreya, a weekly meeting where people meet in groups to discuss what they have done during the week to bring others to Christ–there is a suggested format for that-and hear a witness talk. In some areas Ultreya is preceded by Mass, but this is not part of the Ultreya, and Mass is open to anyone.

People are encouraged to form Group Reunions among themselves to share what they have done and to build each other up. I would say that the major work of the Cursillo is done after the weekend, when people go into their environments and try to bring Christ to others by living their Christianity. In any Diocese that has Cursillo, you will find that in the parishes, many of the people who are involved in parish activities and in leadership roles are Cursillistas.

Are Cursillista enthusiastic about their faith–yes-they should be. Do they like to sing? Without any apologies–YES! Do they like lively songs-yes, Do they like traditional music ? Yes–and when they sing, they really sing to the Lord. Do they like the Rosary, Holy Hours, Adoration, the Sacraments, Mass–YES! Are they perfect–NO. Just like everything else there can be some who do not live out their faith.

But to find out what it is all about, you really need to attend a weekend.
 
Howard_Roark said:
After Mass, Fr. told me “Just pour out the wine on the ground if you like, this is natural ground”. It wasn’t until later than I found out that many classes of Seminarians in San Anotnio were taught that along the way…hence my suspicion that most priests and EMHCs in this diocese are LS excommunicated anyway. Since I “believed in my heart” that indeed that was the Blood of Christ, I consumed it, of course!
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consuming it is certainly not wrong. But what do you think a sacrarium is, anyway? Oh, and by the way, they go back long before Vatican 2.
Howard_Roark said:
Damn right I’m angry, just to anticipate the question.
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Excuse me if my quote is not absolutely correct: “How many times must we forgive our enemies, Lord? Seven times?” “I tell you, seventy times seven times.”

I do not excuse anything that happened which was liturgically or theologically wrong. But you seem to harbor an awful lot of anger. Some of your posts seem to border on righteous anger; pushed a little further and they could become (self) righteous anger.
 
Read UP! you DO NOT pour the sacred blood down the sacrarium! Where did you learn your Catholicism?!?!?!

you have never done this, have you? Canon 1376, read up!
 
Gad, this is a STRANGE “traditional forum”!!!

People actually counseling pouring out the Sacred Blood…What IS going on here?
 
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