Cynical and bitter view on repentance

[PelagiathePenit]

An atheist acquaintance of mine has a quite cynical view on repentance and conversion. She is reasonably kind person. The mentioning of a rapist repenting on their deathbed earning salvation made her bloodboil. She was a victim of sexual abuse as a child. Some of the saints like St. Rita irritated her. She is a modern feminist. She feels as though many cultures excuse poor male behavior. She is from a third world Asian country
Apparently her biological father had no problem fathering other children, beating his wife and children, leaving his family. Her mother did what “good wives” are supposed to do forgive the infidelity, deal with his abuse and of course accepted him when he decided to come back even though leaving his family cost them much financially because he was the breadwinner.
Perhaps saints like Maria Goretti and saint Rita are difficult to understand from a nonreligious perspective

 

[brian_custer]

there is no sin that can’t be forgiven by god no matter how horrendous

so long as all the proper conditions for forgiveness are met

God’s capacity for mercy is unlimited

 

[PelagiathePenit]

there is no sin that can’t be forgiven by god no matter how horrendous

so long as all the proper conditions for forgiveness are met

God’s capacity for mercy is unlimited

Well what would you tell someone like her? How can I explain the importance of forgiveness to her? I guess her stance is understandable. How lucky is it that a complete jerk in this life can wait moments before death to repent. Some people’s sins have unfortunately deeply impacted other peoples lives. I do not know the damage down to people raped as children or the anger they carry.

 

[seagal]

Perhaps a reminder that forgiveness is not only for the other person, but it’s also for her. Ask her to put herself in the story as the person who did something terrible. On her deathbed she realizes just how much of a sinner she is and is sincerely repentant. How grateful would she be to realize that she can receive mercy even though she doesn’t deserve it.

 

[seagal]

Well what would you tell someone like her? How can I explain the importance of forgiveness to her? I guess her stance is understandable. How lucky is it that a complete jerk in this life can wait moments before death to repent. Some people’s sins have unfortunately deeply impacted other peoples lives. I do not know the damage down to people raped as children or the anger they carry.

Someone who just decides to wait until the last minute to repent is not sincerely sorry for their sins, and God certainly knows that. God’s forgiveness and mercy is only for those who are truly repentant.

 

[Franciscan_Way]

Who are we to judge who is truly repentant? That is is for God, alone, to decide.

 

[pianistclare]

Hebrews 10:30
For we know the one who said, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.”

None of our business, frankly.
One might do well to consider what Scripture says about those who turn their backs on the Lord.

 

[mikekle]

I remember when that ISIS terrorist ‘Jihadi John’ was beheading people on video, I cannot count the number of people I talked to that expressed how badly they wanted this guy to suffer and die, a whole lot of people were wishing great violence upon him for what he had done, same thing is true for rapists and child molesters today (for the most part anyway).

Its strange how otherwise good people can have so much hate and desire so much violence for some wrongdoing, but when it comes to other topics, any kind of violent retribution is despised…?

 

[PelagiathePenit]

I remember when that ISIS terrorist ‘Jihadi John’ was beheading people on video, I cannot count the number of people I talked to that expressed how badly they wanted this guy to suffer and die, a whole lot of people were wishing great violence upon him for what he had done, same thing is true for rapists and child molesters today (for the most part anyway).

Its strange how otherwise good people can have so much hate and desire so much violence for some wrongdoing, but when it comes to other topics, any kind of violent retribution is despised…?

I think vengeance is perverted justice. Mercy is important. I don’t think it is necessarily wrong to want people to pay for their evil. Mercy doesn’t overlook evil. Perhaps it does. To be fair, in circumstances such as rape, murder, serious theft it may not be as easy to forgive. What is forgiveness anyways?

 

[PelagiathePenit]

Hebrews 10:30
For we know the one who said, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.”

None of our business, frankly.
One might do well to consider what Scripture says about those who turn their backs on the Lord.

I shouldn’t expect a nonbeliever to understand such. She was interested in religion. Perhaps she will understand in her own time. While she understands the concept of sin. As cynical as her view is, I understand it even as a Catholic. I get we are all sinners. Mother Teresa and real jerks like Ted Bundy being in the same category is odd. One has destroyed human life and the other hand restored it. I understand Mother Teresa is not Christ so she isn’t perfect.

 

[PelagiathePenit]

Perhaps a reminder that forgiveness is not only for the other person, but it’s also for her. Ask her to put herself in the story as the person who did something terrible. On her deathbed she realizes just how much of a sinner she is and is sincerely repentant. How grateful would she be to realize that she can receive mercy even though she doesn’t deserve it.

She is an atheist and does not see herself that way since she lives her life right. St. Maria Goretti and St. Rita are not the easiest saints to understand.

 

[Sarcelle]

An atheist acquaintance of mine has a quite cynical view on repentance and conversion. She is reasonably kind person. The mentioning of a rapist repenting on their deathbed earning salvation made her bloodboil. She was a victim of sexual abuse as a child. Some of the saints like St. Rita irritated her. She is a modern feminist. She feels as though many cultures excuse poor male behavior. She is from a third world Asian country
Apparently her biological father had no problem fathering other children, beating his wife and children, leaving his family. Her mother did what “good wives” are supposed to do forgive the infidelity, deal with his abuse and of course accepted him when he decided to come back even though leaving his family cost them much financially because he was the breadwinner.
Perhaps saints like Maria Goretti and saint Rita are difficult to understand from a nonreligious perspective

Forgiveness or the ability to forgive is a grace of God.

Very difficult to forgive or understand forgiveness unless that grace is given.

In the meantime pray for her.

One thing I find odious is that people think forgiveness especially of an abuser means enduring the abuse. Especially in the case of domestic violence where the abused spouse and/or children are pressured by others to continue living with the abuser.

Forgiveness does not mean endorsement of the actions of the abuser.

 

[PelagiathePenit]

Forgiveness or the ability to forgive is a grace of God.

Very difficult to forgive or understand forgiveness unless that grace is given.

In the meantime pray for her.

One thing I find odious is that people think forgiveness especially of an abuser means enduring the abuse. Especially in the case of domestic violence where the abused spouse and/or children are pressured by others to continue living with the abuser.

Forgiveness does not mean endorsement of the actions of the abuser.

If only people understood that forgiveness doesn’t mean condoning. It is very sad that one person has the power to damage many peoples lives deeply. Forgiveness is often preached and pressured but rarely explained. Realistically, it is not as easy as you think to fully forgive a person who has done a great amount of evil. True forgiveness only comes from God. A priest told me true forgiveness is a miracle. St. Maria Goretti couldn’t have done that on her own.

 

[pianistclare]

I shouldn’t expect a nonbeliever to understand such. She was interested in religion. Perhaps she will understand in her own time. While she understands the concept of sin. As cynical as her view is, I understand it even as a Catholic. I get we are all sinners. Mother Teresa and real jerks like Ted Bundy being in the same category is odd. One has destroyed human life and the other hand restored it. I understand Mother Teresa is not Christ so she isn’t perfect.

That’s where YOU come in. You’re supposed to explain it to her and be the example.
Surely she can understand forgiveness.
She’s never ever been sorry for something she said or did?
I think you’re selling her short.

 

[PelagiathePenit]

That’s where YOU come in. You’re supposed to explain it to her and be the example.
Surely she can understand forgiveness.
She’s never ever been sorry for something she said or did?
I think you’re selling her short.

simply say forgiveness is pardoning sins people cannot in themselves atone for. Or can you anyone make up for their sins?

 

[Sarcelle]

If only people understood that forgiveness doesn’t mean condoning. It is very sad that one person has the power to damage many peoples lives deeply. Forgiveness is often preached and pressured but rarely explained. Realistically, it is not as easy as you think to fully forgive a person who has done a great amount of evil. True forgiveness only comes from God. A priest told me true forgiveness is a miracle. St. Maria Goretti couldn’t have done that on her own.

Yes.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

I do not know the damage down to people raped as children or the anger they carry.

The person who angers you, controls you, they could be a thousand miles away, they could be dead. It is like they have a remote control that control all the bitterness inside your head.

Anger is like picking up a burning coal with the intention of throwing it at the person who angers you, the person who gets burned the most is me. The longer you hold onto this burning coal of anger, the hotter it becomes.

I listened to Glen tell his story, he had been signed up to play football with Leighton Orient, alongside David Beckham. He had an exciting life ahead of him, but he was stabbed in the back shortly after, he has now been paralysed from the waist down for the last 27 years. They caught the man who did this, he served four years in prison, he was then able to walk out of prison on his own two feet, and justice had been served.

By this time, Glen had learned to drive a disabled taxi, he learned where his assailant lived, and then stalked him with the intention of running him over. Glen said at that point he came to understand that true justice could not happen. Justice is not that two people should be crippled, rather, it is that neither of them should be crippled. He knew this could never happen, he came to understand that he had to let go of his hatred. If not, he would become worse than his assailant, because his actions would be premeditated.

He said he had to live with two diseases, being crippled, and the greater disease was the hate burning away inside him. Forgiveness and letting go of the hatred was a gradual process, his wheelchair has been a daily reminder of the past injustice.

As Christians we are asked to pray for our enemies. After we heard his story in Manchester Cathedral, we were asked to sing this hymn by Graham Kendrick, this is how he prays for his enemies and comes to terms with forgiving them.

Now may the peace of the Lord be with you,
May the Lord bless you
May the Lord keep you
And may God’s face shine upon you always
And give you peace.

I looked around me as we sang, and I could see lots of tearful faces…

The peace video link youtube.com/watch?v=7dTmdu_8yMM

 

[PelagiathePenit]

The person who angers you, controls you, they could be a thousand miles away, they could be dead. It is like they have a remote control that control all the bitterness inside your head.

Anger is like picking up a burning coal with the intention of throwing it at the person who angers you, the person who gets burned the most is me. The longer you hold onto this burning coal of anger, the hotter it becomes.

I listened to Glen tell his story, he had been signed up to play football with Leighton Orient, alongside David Beckham. He had an exciting life ahead of him, but he was stabbed in the back shortly after, he has now been paralysed from the waist down for the last 27 years. They caught the man who did this, he served four years in prison, he was then able to walk out of prison on his own two feet, and justice had been served.

By this time, Glen had learned to drive a disabled taxi, he learned where his assailant lived, and then stalked him with the intention of running him over. Glen said at that point he came to understand that true justice could not happen. Justice is not that two people should be crippled, rather, it is that neither of them should be crippled. He knew this could never happen, he came to understand that he had to let go of his hatred. If not, he would become worse than his assailant, because his actions would be premeditated.

He said he had to live with two diseases, being crippled, and the greater disease was the hate burning away inside him. Forgiveness and letting go of the hatred was a gradual process, his wheelchair has been a daily reminder of the past injustice.

As Christians we are asked to pray for our enemies. After we heard his story in Manchester Cathedral, we were asked to sing this hymn by Graham Kendrick, this is how he prays for his enemies and comes to terms with forgiving them.

Now may the peace of the Lord be with you,
May the Lord bless you
May the Lord keep you
And may God’s face shine upon you always
And give you peace.

I looked around me as we sang, and I could see lots of tearful faces…

The peace video link youtube.com/watch?v=7dTmdu_8yMM

Very sad but very true and unfortunate. Life is not fair. Someone will always have the upper hand. I agree with letting go of anger. I think most people would forgive if they understood what it truly means. I think people think forgiving means the other person was right. I guess no one likes being wrong or wronged. It sucks that people who deeply wound us are often too callous to care. Forgiveness the most necessary virtue but often the most difficult.

 

[Sarcelle]

Very sad but very true and unfortunate. Life is not fair. Someone will always have the upper hand. I agree with letting go of anger. I think most people would forgive if they understood what it truly means. I think people think forgiving means the other person was right. I guess no one likes being wrong or wronged. It sucks that people who deeply wound us are often too callous to care. Forgiveness the most necessary virtue but often the most difficult.

You can look at it this way.

The person has wronged you in the past. If he or she continues to anger you, he or she now gets to control you in the present. Why let him or her live rent free in your head? Take back the space in your head and fill it with things that sustain you, like God for instance.

As they say in Frozen, let it go. Give the past memories to God and let Him heal you. As for the offender, pray for the grace of their repentance and then let it go.

When I mean you, I mean the generic you, as I know it is your friend who has been wronged.

Pray for your friend’s healing.

 

[PelagiathePenit]

You can look at it this way.

The person has wronged you in the past. If he or she continues to anger you, he or she now gets to control you in the present. Why let him or her live rent free in your head? Take back the space in your head and fill it with things that sustain you, like God for instance.

As they say in Frozen, let it go. Give the past memories to God and let Him heal you. As for the offender, pray for the grace of their repentance and then let it go.

When I mean you, I mean the generic you, as I know it is your friend who has been wronged.

Pray for your friend’s healing.

Ha-ha a priest suggested I listen to Frozen. I wish forgiveness were easier for me though. I guess we all have spiritual weaknesses.