D&D (Dungeons and Dragons)

[The_Curt_Jester]

Well, I am seeing some posts where people seem to think that players are actually casting real spells. It really is just a game. The spells are not real, nor do they resemble anything real. If I understand right, it’s more like… “I conjure a fireball at you! Mwa ha ha!!” But, I don’t play so I guess I don’t know for sure.

That’s about how it goes, though typically the party is working against a common enemy, therefore they would not be casting fireballs at each other. In regard to the spell words, I never even knew there were actual words associated with them. I know that a certain game has the caster say something like “Mortis et Vita” when casting a healing spell, but to me it just seemed like using random words (Latin to make it sound fancy) for effect.

 

[Joe_5859]

Here’s yet another example of how Wicca is ruining the fun for everyone.

There is nothing inherently problematic with these games. There is no official Church condemnation of these games. The Church condemns divination, magic, and sorcery. These games are not the same thing.

Of course, one must have all the usual caveats. Anything can become morally problematic if we become obsessed with it. If someone is very immature in their faith and such games would lead them to the occult (I suppose anything’s possible ), then they should definitely avoid it. But for a weekly guy’s night, I don’t see it as anything to worry about.

 

[Pat_Payne]

off topic, but how does one play, I’d play, but people would call me a nerd i guess it could humble me

There’s no good way to answer that question in a short time. The best bet is to see if you have any friends whoplay and sit down to a game with them

Unless it’s Fourth Edition. Friends don’t let friends play Fourth

As to the OP, no it is not a sin. Nobody is actually casting spells, or summoning demons. (And as an aside, Gary Gygax himself was a Christian… well, a Universalist Unitarian, but still… and the Hickmans are Mormons…) Now there have been things that were problematic – in one issue of Dragon, someone statted up The Devil, but even that was in the spirit of “if it has stats, we can kill it – and take its stuff!” – but by and large, the game is benign.

I WOULD warn people off of some supplements such as The Book of Vile Darkness as they were part of an ill-concieved push towards “mature” fare that they just didn’t have the chops to do in a truly mature manner.

And the boilerplate: D&D as a game system is benign, but it’s only as benign as the DM and other players. While nobody is going to seriously try to cast spells, some groups take a more libertine approach to sex and gratuitous violence than others. Personally I don’t like RPing sex or even romance in my games (both out of religious conviction and from the fact that 98% of the people I’ve played with are fellow males) and too much violence in a game turns the adventure into a joyless meatgrinder.

 

[The_Curt_Jester]

The game master is really the only person who needs a lot of books. The players could make do with a minimal amount… or even none if the GM lets them look at his. The game is very, very expansive though and I know someone who’s been playing it for something like 20 years and he says he still can’t remember rules.

Also, 3rd edition if you want a unique character. 4th edition if you want everyone to be the same.

 

[Transformer]

No Wizards of the Coast products have any connection to real occult practices.

You will know the level of infiltration by the level of resistance you receive if you suggest he stop.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirming_the_consequent

Most of us indeed see it as just a game, however, others can be negatively influenced (one only has to remember what happened on a college campus back in the early 80’s - a number of deaths were involved).

Outright lies, made up by a woman named Patricia Pulling.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Dallas_Egbert_III

rpgstudies.net/stackpole/pulling_report.html

Anyway, if anyone is seriously interested, the roleplaying game and customizable card game markets have exploded and grown tremendously since 1993 (when Magic came out) or 2000 (when 3rd edition D&D came out). There are hundreds of niche roleplaying games out there, and a lot of really good two player card games. Dungeons and Dragons (along with Pathfinder) and Magic retain their dominance, but there are more options than ever before.

plaidhatgames.com/games/summoner-wars

fantasyflightgames.com/edge_colecciones.asp?eidc=3

indie-rpgs.com/about/

 

[Godfollower]

Apart from the Biblical Proscriptions listed below, there is a danger in opening your household to other spirits. Nobody thinks evil will come to their house until it does. Once in it often goes after those least able to defend themselves (…the little one’s). You are asking because your gut is telling you something is not ok. Even if he plays at a friends house, spirits can come home with him.

You will know the level of infiltration by the level of resistance you receive if you suggest he stop.

“When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you." ESV

CCC 2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another’s credulity.

If playing Dungeons & Dragons is bad because the players pretend to be characters who use magic and actual use of magic is evil, then

• Acting in cop shows is bad because the actors pretend to be characters who commit murder and rape, and actual murder and rape are evil;
• Reading novels about crime is bad because the characters in the books commit crimes, and actual crimes are evil; and
• Watching movies about theft is bad because the characters in the movies steal, and actually stealing is evil.

Ergo (Spoiler alert!):

• You can’t watch “Romeo and Juliet” because suicide is evil;
• You can’t watch “Robin Hood” because theft and robbery are evil (even if you give the proceeds to the poor: you can’t do evil to accomplish good);
• You can’t watch “Hamlet” because Claudius kills his own brother, then marries the widow, in order to become king, and fratricide is particularly evil.

 

[minion]

I don’t play D&D, but I’ve always been fascinated with the alignment system, which helps direct the actions of your roleplaying character:

Lawful Good - Neutral Good - Chaotic Good
Lawful Neutral - Neutral - Chaotic Neutral
Lawful Evil - Neutral Evil - Chaotic Evil

And there’s an interesting topic I heard D&D people argue about, called “the Prisoner Dilemma.” It’s a bit nerdy, but, the variation I heard goes like this:

A Paladin and a Thief destroy an Orc village that has been terrorizing the countryside. However, all that’s left are Orc women, their babies, and two guards, who surrender. Now, the problem, what to do with them?

The Thief, being Chaotic Good, says, kill them all, they’re just going to stab us in the back later if we let them live. After all, the Orc race is Chaotic Evil.

Paladin, being Lawful Good, says, no, we take them prisoner, and bring them to the nearest village for justice.

But wait, the Thief says, the nearest town is a 2 month journey. And besides, they’re just going to be executed anyway. If we let them go, they’ll just kill more innocent people later (according to the game system, they definitely will).

Paladin says, it doesn’t matter, it’s the right thing to do.

Thief says, Orcs are evil. Just kill’em.

Paladin says, not the babies. They haven’t done anything wrong yet.

Thief says, DUDE, It says so in the rulebook. ALL ORCS are EVIL. They WILL be EVIL. And there never HAS been a GOOD ORC.

Paladin says, DUDE, I’m not killing Orc babies.

And the players argue from there, and the game dissolves.

Solution?

 

[The_Curt_Jester]

And this is why people don’t like playing (or players who play) a paladin. Players like to be chaotic.

In regard to evil in the game, yes characters can be evil. I’ve actually played evil-aligned characters. However, I am always careful that I never portray evil as good and I’ve actually sneaked in a proper moral sense through a wily use of evil characters before. I’m not sure if anyone notices, but I do! The way I see it is you’re pretty much writing a character. If you were writing a novel, chances are there are some immoral characters in it, whether outright evil or just misguided, but still, you, as the author, have to write for them. So, yeah, sometimes for a world to exist, whether it’s a game world or a book, you have to have people on different ends of the alignment spectrum, to use a D&D reference.

EDIT: I would, however, suggest NOT trying to become the character, even if it makes the role-playing seem more real, or just easier. Not a good idea!

 

[ChurchSoldier]

Those who play with fire tend to get burned.

 

[Melissa]

The game master is really the only person who needs a lot of books. The players could make do with a minimal amount… or even none if the GM lets them look at his. The game is very, very expansive though and I know someone who’s been playing it for something like 20 years and he says he still can’t remember rules.

Also, 3rd edition if you want a unique character. 4th edition if you want everyone to be the same.

Argh! No … 2nd ed AD&D is the edition to play.

Paladins can really be a major pain, but fortunately, you can add enough strictures to the code that will limit their annoying tendencies (or cause them to stop being a paladin). I have right now, a player who is wanting to play a paladin in my game (we’re still working out the character but I’ve already laid out a code of behavior for him).

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

And this is why people don’t like playing (or players who play) a paladin. Players like to be chaotic.

I often find the terms Chaotic VS Lawful even more ambiguous than Good VS Evil. In some cases, real life Catholicism is more of the latter but in times of persecution it leans to the former. (This is something I don’t know whether to find stupid or interesting about the Church. Meh, we can always classify this as Neutral.)

As for myself, I actually despise Lawful just as much as I dislike Evil. Lawful implies rigid legalism and lacks moral foresight towards the greater good (at least from my experience). BP (And on a side note, my friends like to joke about how Lawful Good actually translates into Lawful Stupid.)

That’s why in terms of both DnD and M:tG, I never see myself as a Lawful character. I always play characters that are often Neutral or Chaotic Good and I absolutely loathe the popular principles of White mana.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Those who play with fire tend to get burned.

On the contrary, in Fantasy… fire is my friend. :3

 

[Marc_Anthony]

If it is just a game for someone, make believe, fantasy, and does not provide an occasion of sin, it is fine.

 

[AB_Juney]

For what it’s worth, I role play too, but not games like DnD. just verbal roleplay, stories. I know there are some topics to avoid, because it would be a temptation for me or my RP partners, but not everythign is eviil.

 

[Melissa]

I often find the terms Chaotic VS Lawful even more ambiguous than Good VS Evil. In some cases, real life Catholicism is more of the latter but in times of persecution it leans to the former. (This is something I don’t know whether to find stupid or interesting about the Church. Meh, we can always classify this as Neutral.)

As for myself, I actually despise Lawful just as much as I dislike Evil. Lawful implies rigid legalism and lacks moral foresight towards the greater good (at least from my experience). BP (And on a side note, my friends like to joke about how Lawful Good actually translates into Lawful Stupid.)

That’s why in terms of both DnD and M:tG, I never see myself as a Lawful character. I always play characters that are often Neutral or Chaotic Good and I absolutely loathe the popular principles of White mana.

The way I handle it (as a DM) is this: good and evil are objective. I (as DM) am the final arbiter as to whether an action is good/evil/neutral–and if you play for any length of time in my game, you’ll have a good sense of this (but evil characters do not self-identify as evil–they think they’re on the side of right and good, but they are, objectively, evil). Lawfulness implies an external moral compass–“there ought to be a law” would be the cry of the Lawful character. Chaotic implies the internal moral compass–“it seems right to me” is the cry of the Chaotic character. Neutrality, with respect to this axis of the alignment, implies balancing the internal and external compasses–there is a time and place for laws to govern, and there is a time and place in which the law is a [donkey].

As a player, I tend toward NG or CG alignments.

 

[Crescentinus]

The confusion on D&D and M:tG is what gave me more of reason to go for other fantasy games. O:

 

[Kithrus]

Apart from the Biblical Proscriptions listed below, there is a danger in opening your household to other spirits. Nobody thinks evil will come to their house until it does. Once in it often goes after those least able to defend themselves (…the little one’s). You are asking because your gut is telling you something is not ok. Even if he plays at a friends house, spirits can come home with him.

You will know the level of infiltration by the level of resistance you receive if you suggest he stop.

“When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you." EST

CCC 2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another’s credulity.

Cool, we will let you know the second that happens.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Apart from the Biblical Proscriptions listed below, there is a danger in opening your household to other spirits. Nobody thinks evil will come to their house until it does. Once in it often goes after those least able to defend themselves (…the little one’s). You are asking because your gut is telling you something is not ok. Even if he plays at a friends house, spirits can come home with him.

You will know the level of infiltration by the level of resistance you receive if you suggest he stop.

“When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you." ESV

CCC 2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another’s credulity.

Given your apparent belief in the validity of the magic system in the game (you think it’s real) you would not be safe playing it. On the other hand, an individual such as myself who knows it is all just a load of BS would be perfectly safe playing it.

 

[Melissa]

Given your apparent belief in the validity of the magic system in the game (you think it’s real) you would not be safe playing it. On the other hand, an individual such as myself who knows it is all just a load of BS would be perfectly safe playing it.

I wouldn’t say it’s BS–but the magic in the game is about as real as the sword that the fighter in the party is wielding … Yet, no one seems terribly worried about the player of the party fighter suddenly becoming a homicidal maniac decapitating folks left and right just because the character found a vorpal sword in the game. Let it be a mage or cleric, and suddenly that dreaded inability to discern fact and fiction rears its ugly head (where’s a vorpal sword when you really need one?).

 

[ChurchSoldier]

Those who are prideful should be particularly careful.