Dad's bad experience as a Catholic

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Poetpeace

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My Dads been talking to me about my choice to be Catholic. To give some back ground on this, he was brought up Catholic, confirmed and went to a Catholic school – but this is where his issues lie. Where he was the Priests in charge beat the kids and were very cruel – so naturally he and his classmates fell from the church after they were 18 and living their own lives.

He questions my choice by asking how I could support an religion whose Priests “are and were notoriously known for being corrupt and cruel”.

Of course, I fully understand why he thinks this.

I am just wondering how to answer that kind of question. Combined the Pedophilia cases talked about during the last year, he has very few positive things to say about Catholicism, and just see’s me as naive about the “truth about Catholics”.

He asked me why I couldn’t just be a non-denominational Christian, and not be a church goer, but still have all my beliefs. When I explained that Church and God go hand in hand he accused the church of being like any other organisation – out to get money and control, and use the fear of an almighty God to keep control.

Thanks!
 
Poetpeace said:
My Dads been talking to me about my choice to be Catholic. To give some back ground on this, he was brought up Catholic, confirmed and went to a Catholic school – but this is where his issues lie. Where he was the Priests in charge beat the kids and were very cruel – so naturally he and his classmates fell from the church after they were 18 and living their own lives.

He questions my choice by asking how I could support an religion whose Priests “are and were notoriously known for being corrupt and cruel”.

Of course, I fully understand why he thinks this.

I am just wondering how to answer that kind of question. Combined the Pedophilia cases talked about during the last year, he has very few positive things to say about Catholicism, and just see’s me as naive about the “truth about Catholics”.

He asked me why I couldn’t just be a non-denominational Christian, and not be a church goer, but still have all my beliefs. When I explained that Church and God go hand in hand he accused the church of being like any other organisation – out to get money and control, and use the fear of an almighty God to keep control.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
I went to a priest’s school and we were 500 boys and of course they beat us for we were terrible, and we would do naughty things and got punished but it was for us all a game: how to do naughty things without being caught. When we were caught we just accepted the punishment as a natural course of events: we did bad things, we got caught, we were punished. Physical punishments? No problem. A man never cries. They would throw a bamboo stick over us and we would hide under the tables. It was fun. Other times, we would put books into the sleeves and tried to defend ourselves with those shields.

Every 8th December we go there to the alumni day, we pray, play a game of football (the real one) and remember the good old times…

Pedophilia? Never heard a hint of it and I was there 7 years. The number of priests related to pedophilia is small: remember that there are 1 millions priests. In fact, it is the class where there is less pedophilia: less than doctors, teachers, gimnastic instructors, lawyers. But the mass media want it that way for the RCC is big. And the lawyers want big money that they cannot get with a music teacher, for instance…
 
Pfaffenhoffen said:
I went to a priest’s school and we were 500 boys and of course they beat us for we were terrible, and we would do naughty things and got punished but it was for us all a game: how to do naughty things without being caught. When we were caught we just accepted the punishment as a natural course of events: we did bad things, we got caught, we were punished. Physical punishments? No problem. A man never cries. They would throw a bamboo stick over us and we would hide under the tables. It was fun. Other times, we would put books into the sleeves and tried to defend ourselves with those shields.
Click to expand...
He was a badly behaved child, so he did get punished a lot whilst at school. He was always that type of kid, the one who mucked about and tried not to get caught. So the priests did punish them as you said.

He just didn’t stick to your thinking, and instead decided to leave his beliefs behind.
 
I once had a similar discussion with my 28-year-old son, who says he likes the Church BUT!!! . . . but what about the inquisitions, and the bad popes, and cruel nuns and priests he’s heard about, etc. …

My son is a proud member of the U.S. Air Force. I’m very proud of his service! I asked him, “Are you proud of your country?” He answered, “Yes, of course!” I asked, “How can you be proud of a country that enslaved, tortured, and treated Blacks like cattle? How can you love a country that attempted to exterminate Native Americans? How can you love a country that rounded up and imprisoned its own Japanese-American citizens during WWII? Even worse, how can you wear the uniform of such a country?!” He paused and smiled at me. He new what I was really driving at. My point was that believing that certain periods or events in America’s history serve to completely define America today, is to have a very shallow and superficial understanding of what America truly is. Likewise, pointing to certain eras or events in Catholic Church history, or certain bad priests, nuns, or even popes, and then coming to the conclusion that, therefore, the Church in its entirety must be bad, is to have a shallow and superficial understanding of what the Catholic Church is. The evil of Slavery does not define America. The evil of a priest behaving badly (no matter how damaging such behavior may have been on this twisted priest’s innocent victim) does not define the Catholic Church.

Hope this helps. May God continue blessing you and encouraging you on your journey to the Truth of Catholicism. Happy New Year!

Roman63
 
At the school I attended the priests left the corporal punishment to the nuns, they were highly skilled at it. I swear they had rear view mirrors in those habits, they didn’t miss much.

Seriously, it sounds like a lot of excuses and rationalizing to explain being away from the Church. It would be a good thing if you could get him to talk to a priest or a deacon and perhaps realize things are not as he imagines them to be.
 
I went to a secular elementary school in the days where if you got into trouble, the principal had the right to hit you on the butt multiple times with a wooden paddle. Times change, today that same principal would be arrested for assault and battery!
 
Roman63 said:
I once had a similar discussion with my 28-year-old son, who says he likes the Church BUT!!! . . . but what about the inquisitions, and the bad popes, and cruel nuns and priests he’s heard about, etc. …

My son is a proud member of the U.S. Air Force. I’m very proud of his service! I asked him, “Are you proud of your country?” He answered, “Yes, of course!” I asked, “How can you be proud of a country that enslaved, tortured, and treated Blacks like cattle? How can you love a country that attempted to exterminate Native Americans? How can you love a country that rounded up and imprisoned its own Japanese-American citizens during WWII? Even worse, how can you wear the uniform of such a country?!” He paused and smiled at me. He new what I was really driving at. My point was that believing that certain periods or events in America’s history serve to completely define America today, is to have a very shallow and superficial understanding of what America truly is. Likewise, pointing to certain eras or events in Catholic Church history, or certain bad priests, nuns, or even popes, and then coming to the conclusion that, therefore, the Church in its entirety must be bad, is to have a shallow and superficial understanding of what the Catholic Church is. The evil of Slavery does not define America. The evil of a priest behaving badly (no matter how damaging such behavior may have been on this twisted priest’s innocent victim) does not define the Catholic Church.

Hope this helps. May God continue blessing you and encouraging you on your journey to the Truth of Catholicism. Happy New Year!

Roman63
Click to expand...
👍👍👍
 
CalCatholic said:
I went to a secular elementary school in the days where if you got into trouble, the principal had the right to hit you on the butt multiple times with a wooden paddle. Times change, today that same principal would be arrested for assault and battery!
Click to expand...
And the change is evident in the teen crime statistics. If I ever complained about getting swatted at school I’d get it again at home!
 
He can’t blame corporal punishment on the Catholic Church!!! Seriously. My husband went to school in England and he got beaten along with lots of other naughty little boys and that was in regular school (grammar school). In that time and place, beatings were common especially if you were male and liked to play jokes/pranks on your teachers/other students.

That’s just an excuse for leaving the church.

:mad:
 
I don’t really think these questions need an distinct or profound answer. All these are generalizations. Not all priests are the same.
 
Poetpeace,

To be truthful there isn’t a whole lot that you can say in rebuttal to your father. He has his attitude and well reasoned arguments are not likely to change his mind…

That said there are a couple of things that you might be able to answer…

He asks, how you could support an religion whose Priests “are and were notoriously known for being corrupt and cruel”.
Well initially you can offer your apologies on behalf of the Church for his bad experience. You could also offer to introduce him to your pastor so that he can begin to get to know some priests who aren’t cruel and corrupt.
He asked me why I couldn’t just be a non-denominational Christian, and not be a church goer, but still have all my beliefs.
Click to expand...
To this I would simply respond, because “all my beliefs” lead me to and require me to be Catholic.

All of the other stuff…cruel, corrupt, out for money etc. you really can’t do anything about except to:
a) Be the very best Catholic you can be.
b) Learn as much as you can about all of the charitable works of the Church - especially in your area so that when he broaches “out for money” you can respond with some examples of how your contributions help others.
c) Connected to this, you might volunteer yourself at some Catholic Charity function. Not only will this give you great graces, but will give you first hand stories to discuss with your dad.

Ultimately, your dad will have to come to his own conclusion. Mostly you just have to be a good example.

Peace
James
 
Just have to say; good point Roman63! Logical and articulate.
Debbie
 
I joined the Catholic Church right in the midst of when all of the priest scandal hit the fan. But the reason I joined the Church was not because of the priests or members (saint or sinners). It was upon learning about the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. This was overwhelmingly compelling to me. And in spite of all of the terrible stuff going on – I know that the Catholic Church has the Truth. (Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life?) I read the catechism and the writings of the saints and fell in love with the Church. It is the Blessed Sacrament that keeps me in the Church and I pray by God’s grace to never leave it.

I often see that many protestant churches have many magnificant social and religious programs, but I cannot stray over there because they do not have the Sacraments of the Catholic Church. The Eucharist is the source and summit of the Christian life.

It is a long and difficult journey but well worth it!

Neden
 
JRKH said:
Poetpeace,

To be truthful there isn’t a whole lot that you can say in rebuttal to your father. He has his attitude and well reasoned arguments are not likely to change his mind…

That said there are a couple of things that you might be able to answer…

He asks, how you could support an religion whose Priests “are and were notoriously known for being corrupt and cruel”.
Well initially you can offer your apologies on behalf of the Church for his bad experience. You could also offer to introduce him to your pastor so that he can begin to get to know some priests who aren’t cruel and corrupt.

To this I would simply respond, because “all my beliefs” lead me to and require me to be Catholic.

All of the other stuff…cruel, corrupt, out for money etc. you really can’t do anything about except to:
a) Be the very best Catholic you can be.
b) Learn as much as you can about all of the charitable works of the Church - especially in your area so that when he broaches “out for money” you can respond with some examples of how your contributions help others.
c) Connected to this, you might volunteer yourself at some Catholic Charity function. Not only will this give you great graces, but will give you first hand stories to discuss with your dad.

Ultimately, your dad will have to come to his own conclusion. Mostly you just have to be a good example.

Peace
James
Click to expand...
He will get to meet my Priest and members of my parish next time he comes down to University to see get confirmed, so hopefully that might settle his mind a bit. And yes, I hope to get involved with youth work and the Charity functions – I do want to prove to him I am not making a mistake.
 
Well the clergy/nuns laid the law down on us young men as well. It’s my recollection that they were more severe with me than my own parents. One nun flat out told us that…‘your parents pay good money for this deserved punishment and if you don’t believe me just ask them and see what happens’…

The way I see it a young man has to learn how to take a trimming. I suppose that goes for girls too now a days. Back in the day girls were better behaved than boys…I can’t ever remember a girl getting receiving a nuns wrath. With the boys it was every other day but it was all about following the rules, cause and effect etc.

His experience was then…this is now. Sadly corporal punishment fell out of favor.
 
Poetpeace said:
He was a badly behaved child, so he did get punished a lot whilst at school. He was always that type of kid, the one who mucked about and tried not to get caught. So the priests did punish them as you said.

He just didn’t stick to your thinking, and instead decided to leave his beliefs behind.
Click to expand...
I tell you: that was my feeling. I had many colleagues of mine who got angry and with hate. Once, one of them threw a pile on English Books from the 5th Floor. It did not catch the English Teacher for a millimiter. He could have killed him.
I think, I say, I think that your father has problems accepting that he did naughty things. I know some guys who did the worst things, and it was never their fault. It was always somebody else’s fault. Never, but never and never theirs. IF, and I repeat, IF, if your father is still this way and has this character, then possibly he would have the same character as a kid.
My idea now…
 
Pfaffenhoffen said:
I tell you: that was my feeling. I had many colleagues of mine who got angry and with hate. Once, one of them threw a pile on English Books from the 5th Floor. It did not catch the English Teacher for a millimiter. He could have killed him.
I think, I say, I think that your father has problems accepting that he did naughty things. I know some guys who did the worst things, and it was never their fault. It was always somebody else’s fault. Never, but never and never theirs. IF, and I repeat, IF, if your father is still this way and has this character, then possibly he would have the same character as a kid.
My idea now…
Click to expand...
👍👍
 
Pfaffenhoffen said:
I went to a priest’s school and we were 500 boys and of course they beat us for we were terrible, and we would do naughty things and got punished but it was for us all a game: how to do naughty things without being caught. When we were caught we just accepted the punishment as a natural course of events: we did bad things, we got caught, we were punished. Physical punishments? No problem. A man never cries. They would throw a bamboo stick over us and we would hide under the tables. It was fun. Other times, we would put books into the sleeves and tried to defend ourselves with those shields.

Every 8th December we go there to the alumni day, we pray, play a game of football (the real one) and remember the good old times…

Pedophilia? Never heard a hint of it and I was there 7 years. The number of priests related to pedophilia is small: remember that there are 1 millions priests. In fact, it is the class where there is less pedophilia: less than doctors, teachers, gimnastic instructors, lawyers. But the mass media want it that way for the RCC is big. And the lawyers want big money that they cannot get with a music teacher, for instance…
Click to expand...
I cannot resist responding to your reply. When we were in catholic gradeschool, we used to do the same thing to torment the sisters. It was fun. And if you got caught, everyone else snickered and laughed. The trick was not to get caught. We had lots of fun. In highschool, it was the same, we tormented the brothers just to see how much we could get by with. Great times! Now its my turn to be tormented, and I’m the one crying.
Liked your post.
 
CalCatholic said:
I went to a secular elementary school in the days where if you got into trouble, the principal had the right to hit you on the butt multiple times with a wooden paddle. Times change, today that same principal would be arrested for assault and battery!
Click to expand...
And now, who is hitting who?
 
Roman63 said:
I once had a similar discussion with my 28-year-old son, who says he likes the Church BUT!!! . . . but what about the inquisitions, and the bad popes, and cruel nuns and priests he’s heard about, etc. …

My son is a proud member of the U.S. Air Force. I’m very proud of his service! I asked him, “Are you proud of your country?” He answered, “Yes, of course!” I asked, “How can you be proud of a country that enslaved, tortured, and treated Blacks like cattle? How can you love a country that attempted to exterminate Native Americans? How can you love a country that rounded up and imprisoned its own Japanese-American citizens during WWII? Even worse, how can you wear the uniform of such a country?!” He paused and smiled at me. He new what I was really driving at. My point was that believing that certain periods or events in America’s history serve to completely define America today, is to have a very shallow and superficial understanding of what America truly is. Likewise, pointing to certain eras or events in Catholic Church history, or certain bad priests, nuns, or even popes, and then coming to the conclusion that, therefore, the Church in its entirety must be bad, is to have a shallow and superficial understanding of what the Catholic Church is. The evil of Slavery does not define America. The evil of a priest behaving badly (no matter how damaging such behavior may have been on this twisted priest’s innocent victim) does not define the Catholic Church.

Hope this helps. May God continue blessing you and encouraging you on your journey to the Truth of Catholicism. Happy New Year!

Roman63
Click to expand...
Yes and Not.
The Church is Holy, true.
But the Church is made of men who sin.
Both sides define the Church.
 
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