Daily Beast: Do Most Catholic Theologians Support Same-Sex Marriage?

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On the subject of same-sex marriage:
“Archbishop Dolan and the United States Catholic Conference are misrepresenting ‘Catholic teaching,’ and are trying to present their idiosyncratic minority view as the ‘Catholic position,’ and it is not,” Maguire wrote in an email to The Daily Beast. “The bishops will stand with Dolan and the U.S. Catholic Conference, but on this issue, they are in moral schism since most in the Church have moved on [to] a more humane view on the rights of those whom God has made gay.”
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“Most Catholic theologians approve of same-sex marriage and Catholics generally do not differ much from the overall population on this issue,” Maguire said.
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thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/05/11/do-most-catholic-theologians-support-same-sex-marriage.html

catholicexchange.com/catholic-theologians-blast-bishops-for-opposing-gay-marriage/

I realize that these articles are dated (May of this year) but the claim is interesting. On the one hand, I certainly don’t intend to take the word of one or two theologians as all nor assume that theologians know more than bishops on the subject.

But, nevertheless, I am curious as to whether the claim is true, that a majority of Catholic theologians favor same-sex marriage. I would not be at all surprised given that Catholic theologians are largely employed as university professors.
 
catholicaudio.blogspot.com/2007/08/scott-hahn-lambs-supper-ewtn.html

Supposedly the man, Daniel Maguire, the article quotes as making the claim is an ex-priest who has also defended legal abortion…

In answer to your question I do not believe there are polls of Catholic theologians on issues such as this… Its funny because when I searched the claim I found all sorts of headlines such as “theologians blast Bishops on same-sex marriage”. As back up for this the articles quote two theologians one of whom one is an ex-priest, and then the ex-priest’s claim that most theologians oppose the Bishops…
 
I suppose theologians could be polled, though I haven’t seen the results of one.

Of course, a majority of theologians does not a parallel magisterium make!

I don’t see why a theologian would argue—if any actually do—that same-sex couples should be allowed to marry because God made them that way. One could more easily argue God meant for them NOT to marry!

In either case, it would be an argument assuming God created human beings in His image and likeness, which would cut no ice with those who say the same-sex marriage argument must be engaged on wholly secular grounds. It would be paradoxical–at best–to say that because God made them gay he meant for them to marry, and never mind anything judgmental in God’s scriptural revelation because, well, just because! As the saying goes, “that dog won’t hunt!”
 
I’m wary of people who only see theologians as reliable when they teach counter to their Church!
 
markeverett49 said:
I’m wary of people who only see theologians as reliable when they teach counter to their Church!
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They have an agenda, so they will only ask the people who agree with them. It’s a tactic as old as politics.

The answer is, NO. Unequivocally, there is not second opinion on the matter. The vast majority of theologians and clergy will tall you upfront that homosexual unions are wrong.
 
ProdglArchitect said:
The answer is, NO. Unequivocally, there is not second opinion on the matter. The vast majority of theologians and clergy will tall you upfront that homosexual unions are wrong.
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I believe you on the clergy, I’m much less confident on theologians. It’s not that I am skeptical of Catholic theologians, per se, so much that I am skeptical of university professors on this particular issue. They may well have adopted the politically correct posion, if only for their own professional security.
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
On the subject of same-sex marriage:

thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/05/11/do-most-catholic-theologians-support-same-sex-marriage.html

catholicexchange.com/catholic-theologians-blast-bishops-for-opposing-gay-marriage/

I realize that these articles are dated (May of this year) but the claim is interesting. On the one hand, I certainly don’t intend to take the word of one or two theologians as all nor assume that theologians know more than bishops on the subject.

But, nevertheless, I am curious as to whether the claim is true, that a majority of Catholic theologians favor same-sex marriage. I would not be at all surprised given that Catholic theologians are largely employed as university professors.
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The proper answer to this question is: It depends which theologians you talk to. If you ask Roman Catholic, Orthodox Christian, or many Orthodox Jewish Theologians, the answer is a resounding NO! However if you ask Protestant or “secular” Theologians, the answer would be all over the place. In the case of ex-priests, one can lump their opinions in with the Protestants…for the most part, regardless of their training, I would not trust the opinion of an ex-priest as the chances of their opinions being biased is rather high.
The popular press loves to quote these people because it plays to the latent anti-catholicism of modern American Society and it does sell newspapers. Very rarely will you see a rebuttal, and if so, it is buried in the back pages that few people ever read.
 
George_Stegmeir said:
The proper answer to this question is: It depends which theologians you talk to. If you ask Roman Catholic, Orthodox Christian, or many Orthodox Jewish Theologians, the answer is a resounding NO! However if you ask Protestant or “secular” Theologians, the answer would be all over the place. In the case of ex-priests, one can lump their opinions in with the Protestants…for the most part, regardless of their training, I would not trust the opinion of an ex-priest as the chances of their opinions being biased is rather high.
The popular press loves to quote these people because it plays to the latent anti-catholicism of modern American Society and it does sell newspapers. Very rarely will you see a rebuttal, and if so, it is buried in the back pages that few people ever read.
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I’m presuming (and frankly, only curious about) Catholic theologians.

I would divide Catholic theologians into three categories: those who are employed in Catholic seminaries, those employed in “Catholic” universities, and those employed in non-Catholic universities.

I would be surprised if Catholic theologians at Catholic seminaries supported same-sex marriage. However, given the drift of Catholic universities away from Catholicism, I would not be surprised if they held views similar to those employed in non-Catholic universities. And I know that virtually all of those universities are hostile to anyone who opposes same-sex marriage.

So while it’s certainly possible that the Daily Beast has used a couple oddballs to infer a majority view, what they claim is not altogether implausible.

There is another possible angle to this: who is a “Catholic theologian”? If the Daily Beast and Cardinal Dolan got together to make a list in order to conduct an opinion poll would they agree on the list?
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
On the subject of same-sex marriage:

thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/05/11/do-most-catholic-theologians-support-same-sex-marriage.html

catholicexchange.com/catholic-theologians-blast-bishops-for-opposing-gay-marriage/

I realize that these articles are dated (May of this year) but the claim is interesting. On the one hand, I certainly don’t intend to take the word of one or two theologians as all nor assume that theologians know more than bishops on the subject.

But, nevertheless, I am curious as to whether the claim is true, that a majority of Catholic theologians favor same-sex marriage. I would not be at all surprised given that Catholic theologians are largely employed as university professors.
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Hog wash!!!:eek::eek::eek:
 
My reaction to this: :rolleyes:

His idea of a “Church teaching” and my idea of a “Church teaching” are clearly not identical.
 
There may be a few theology professors at large Catholic universities- really quite secular universities in some respects- who may hold more heterodox views than professors at, for example, the two dozen Cardinal Newman Society approved schools, who would likely be very orthodox. Even so, somehow I doubt the accuracy of “most theologians favor…yaddi-yaddi.” Anyone trained in theology- which includes training in moral theology- should be the first to understand that homosexual activity is inherently sinful, and that marriage is a Holy Sacrament for a man and a woman only. There is no middle ground on this issue.
 
It is possible to say such people are theologians, but improper to say that those who dissent from Catholic teaching are Catholic theologians.
This might be instanced by Marquette University’s Daniel Maguire, who was featured in the opening post, and who has had some notoriety for decades because of his books and pronouncements promoting abortion. Last year Cardinal Dolan sent a letter rebuking Maguire for his stand on abortion, gay marriage and contraception, and Maguire said that Bishop Dolan is rabid.
Theologians who dissent from Catholic teachings like to portray themselves as the wave of the future. This article, attempting to represent their teaching as the legitimate teaching of Catholicism, seeks to advance their agenda by this tactic, but rather they are actually embracing a losing position.
 
One must get a frame of reference to answer this question: politically driven is this question on the basis of “civil rights”. The assumption is that “marriage” is a construct of a reasonable secular society. However “marriage”, as we now know it (in the West), is preserved and sheltered by Faith based parameters and codes. The civil authorities got involved when mankind threw off the yoke of moral order and created reasons why living with a covenantial spouse can be severed or nullified by a civil law.

Remove moral law, from any carnal relationship, breeds contempt of law, persons, and religious codes. Homosexual “marriage” is an imitation of a life they deny - the fruit of a sexual union - conceiving and birthing children. A homosexual connection is “fruitless”; it is only sexual and/or financial. Yes, there are “natural” couples who are “sexual” and fruitless, and that could be in God’s plan, for them. What moral and natural law reveals is that homo-sex is not natural, nor ordained by God, and nobody is “created” homosexed - sexual intercourse (or copulation) is a “choice”.
 
Any article that quotes Dan Maguire as an authority on any Catholic moral position ought not to be taken seriously.
mu-warrior.blogspot.com/2012/02/dan-maguire-just-short-step-from.html

Here is the course description for one of his classes this semester. Unfortunately I couldn’t find one for his “moral theology” class, as those are even worse, but I think you can get the idea from this:
marquette.edu/theology/documents/2410_103_Maguire_001.pdf

I have had many good theology professors at Marquette but the fact that Maguire and his nonsense are tolerated here is nothing short of a disgrace.

I’m sure, of course, that most of the theologians Maguire reads and holds in high esteem probably support same-sex marriage, but that should not be taken to say anything about Catholic theologians as a whole. And in any case, what “most theologians believe”, while it can have at times unfortunate effects on what people are taught, does not necessarily have any bearing on Church doctrine.
 
Do theologians issue encyclicals? Do they establish Church teaching? NO.

The same thing happened when a number of Catholic “theologians” published a full page ad in the New York Times in 1968, denouncing the encyclical, Humanae Vitae, which had just been released by Pope Paul VI. They howled in protest because just prior to this, some inside the Church were pushing the Church to loosen its restrictions on artificial birth control. Instead, Pope Paul VI did not change or modify Church teaching on artificial birth control. They got so mad that they not only openly defied the Pope but encouraged the Catholic laity to defy him as well.

Theologians does not equal Church Teaching. But the gay activists will seize on anything to convince Catholic voters to support same-sex “marriage.”

Peace,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
Do theologians issue encyclicals? Do they establish Church teaching? NO.

The same thing happened when a number of Catholic “theologians” published a full page ad in the New York Times in 1968, denouncing the encyclical, Humanae Vitae, which had just been released by Pope Paul VI… They got so mad that they not only openly defied the Pope but encouraged the Catholic laity to defy him as well.

Theologians does not equal Church Teaching. But the gay activists will seize on anything to convince Catholic voters to support same-sex “marriage.”

Peace,
Ed
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Makes perfect sense. I could not think of the above incident, and I am glad you brought it forward.
Seems to me there is a bus of nuns traveling around these days in protest of the Catholic Church of the HHS mandate too. Same old story different actors.

Peace,
PT
 
edwest2 said:
The same thing happened when a number of Catholic “theologians” published a full page ad in the New York Times in 1968, denouncing the encyclical, Humanae Vitae, which had just been released by Pope Paul VI. They howled in protest because just prior to this, some inside the Church were pushing the Church to loosen its restrictions on artificial birth control. Instead, Pope Paul VI did not change or modify Church teaching on artificial birth control. They got so mad that they not only openly defied the Pope but encouraged the Catholic laity to defy him as well.

Theologians does not equal Church Teaching. But the gay activists will seize on anything to convince Catholic voters to support same-sex “marriage.”
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I’m much less interested in the politics of same-sex marriage (a particular instance) than the more general question of whether it is fair to say that Catholic theologians diverge, as a group, from Church teaching, and why. The above is another good example of the same thing. It’s possible that a small minority of Catholic “theologians” are being offered as representative of a silent majority that hews closer to Church teaching. But its also possible that a majority Catholic “theologians” are influenced by their positions as professors in secular (or even nominally Catholic) universities.

Of course, I would also be a little curious as to what justification is offered in the various specific cases. Are Catholic “theologians” saying that it’s not “nice” to prohibit gay “marrige?” But that’s much less interesting if they are a small but well broadcast minority.
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
" I’m much less interested in the politics of same-sex marriage … It’s possible that a small minority of Catholic “theologians” are being offered as representative of a silent majority … But its also possible that a majority Catholic “theologians” are influenced by their positions…"

Unfortunate, the homosexual issues ARE driven by politics. The umbrella of “civil rights” is a ploy to cozy up to those who are still waging the civil rights fight for racial equality.

Yes, “civil rights” is still a cross with which this American society still struggles, but is not a single party issue, nor is it only in the company of moral issues. It should be ONLY a moral issue, but that camp site is too small for those who choose to live immorally, but want legal sanction for the “freedom” to live and act immorally, without public disapproval.

I’m not sure I understand your “small minority” reference to theologians. I believe there are perceived silent majorities of “theologians”, working in nominally Catholic or secular universities, that do publish but are not read by the general public because the popular press will not give them voice, in print, because it does not fit the “political” driven agenda (framed in civil rights).

There is a well publicized study, by a University of Texas researcher, who happens to be a new convert to Catholicism, who is taking unjustifiable flack for his study, that casts a new light on children raised in households boasting of homosexual parents or at least one parent and a live-in “partner”. It departs from the theologian comparisons but his science is not challenged on the research methods but, in part, on his association to Catholicism.

Any “doctor” in Theology can be dubbed a “Theologian” and carve out a corner of publishers for remarks about catholicism, and wax eloquently.

Peace,
PT
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