Daily Beast: Do Most Catholic Theologians Support Same-Sex Marriage?

[Bubba_Switzler]

I’m not sure I understand your “small minority” reference to theologians. I believe there are perceived silent majorities of “theologians”, working in nominally Catholic or secular universities, that do publish but are not read by the general public because the popular press will not give them voice, in print, because it does not fit the “political” driven agenda (framed in civil rights).

I am genuinely curious about the opening question: do a majority of Catholic theologians support same-sex marriage? It might be that they do. It might be that it’s only a few that support it who are presented by the media as representing those who don’t. More generally, what influences Catholic theologians?

There is a well publicized study, by a University of Texas researcher, who happens to be a new convert to Catholicism, who is taking unjustifiable flack for his study, that casts a new light on children raised in households boasting of homosexual parents or at least one parent and a live-in “partner”. It departs from the theologian comparisons but his science is not challenged on the research methods but, in part, on his association to Catholicism.

Yes, indeed, this was quite a scandal. Because in that environment being gay is a badge of honor and being Catholic is scandalous. So we should not be surprised that Catholic theologians employed as university professors would side with homosexuals.

I would still be curious about their arguments but I am firsly curious if they are a majority as claimed or a vocal minority.

Any “doctor” in Theology can be dubbed a “Theologian” and carve out a corner of publishers for remarks about catholicism, and wax eloquently.

Yep. And in some communities more respected than “uneducated” clerics.

 

[highplainsrider]

Your “curiosity”, me thinks, must be answered by a “Professor” of Theology, who is employed in the various universities that offer classes in such studies. The most notable have written books, even catechisms, that were used for years before they were deemed unsuitable for youthful consumption. I taught CCD from one of them until I started questioning its content.

I believe there are more “Theologians” out in cyberspace or other space, that are not heard. There have been some, in Europe that have sounded off - both negative and positive. We have no idea of the “Theologians” in the Middle East or Africa? What I have read or heard of their Prelates, the Catholic Church is in good hands, but being threatened to extinction by a rise of “radical” Islam.

Peace,

PT

 

[markeverett49]

The Church takes a high view of the vocation of the theologian in this document:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19900524_theologian-vocation_en.html

 

[highplainsrider]

The Church takes a high view of the vocation of the theologian in this document:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19900524_theologian-vocation_en.html

In the section: B. The problem of dissent
32. The Magisterium has drawn attention several times to the serious harm done to the community of the Church by attitudes of general opposition to Church teaching which even come to expression in organized groups. In his apostolic exhortation Paterna cum benevolentia, Paul VI offered a diagnosis of this problem which is still apropos.(25) In particular, he addresses here that public opposition to the Magisterium of the Church also called “dissent”, which must be distinguished from the situation of personal difficulties treated above …"

“Serious harm…” but little is revealed as to the communication of the Judge of the Magisterium and the Bishop in who’s jurisdiction the offending “Theologian” is offending the Church. This communication could be more transparent to those who are asked to teach Catholic Doctrine and pew apologetics. Separating, among Theologians, who are ordered and disciplined of Faith, in this posed question: more or few, who claim Theologian status. The suggestion and commentary is that there are few who are disobedient and more who (silently) are obedient. In the age of electronic light speed of information and publication, the Magisterium is painfully slow.

Peace,
PT

 

[markeverett49]

In the section: B. The problem of dissent

Sure, dissent is a problem. Mark me down as opposed! But I thought it worth mentioning that the Church takes a high view of theologians. Which doesn’t mean that none stray, of course, bur it is a reminder that they do a great degree what we all should do to the degree we can: apply our intellects to knowing what we can about God!

 

[highplainsrider]

Agree. The Church needs to take proactive action to defrock (if that is possible) dissenting destructively teaching “Theologians”. It took too long to depose Curran (sp). That is the only point I make in this response.

Peace,
PT

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Agree. The Church needs to take proactive action to defrock (if that is possible) dissenting destructively teaching “Theologians”. It took too long to depose Curran (sp). That is the only point I make in this response.

The trouble is, theologians are not frocked by the Church but by universities both in the granting of doctorates and employment. You might as well call for defrocking of rabbis and imams.

 

[buffalo]

Ohhhhhh - the musings of theologians.

Teaching authority in the Catholic Church stops at the Bishops. Sorry theologians…

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Ohhhhhh - the musings of theologians. Teaching authority in the Catholic Church stops at the Bishops. Sorry theologians…

Right, but the Church leans heavily upon theologians to do much of the theological heavy lifting.

Crudely speaking, theologians muse and the Church authenticates (or not).

Of course, universities and academic communities also have their own authentication process as Professor Regenerus discovered.

 

[Elizium23]

The trouble is, theologians are not frocked by the Church but by universities both in the granting of doctorates and employment. You might as well call for defrocking of rabbis and imams.

There are canonical censures available. Interdict is rare, but possible. An ordinary could revoke the right to call an apostolate “Catholic”.

 

[highplainsrider]

Right, but the Church leans heavily upon theologians to do much of the theological heavy lifting.

Crudely speaking, theologians muse and the Church authenticates (or not).

Of course, universities and academic communities also have their own authentication process as Professor Regenerus discovered.

Yes they do. and Bishops, if they are Shepherding their flock, are generating corrective communications to “Theologians”, who go “public” with their “musings” that sound like THEY are the ONLY authority on the subject to which they speak. Joe Blow Catholic can’t tell the difference, I dare say.

Just saying …

Peace,
PT

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

There are canonical censures available. Interdict is rare, but possible. An ordinary could revoke the right to call an apostolate “Catholic”.

I am by no means expert on this (I have far more questions than answers) but my impression and recollection was that this was mostly wielded against those who were literally teaching false things about Catholicism to students, saying, for example, that same-sex marriage is a Catholic teaching. I’m not familiar with any modern instance of a Catholic theologian being slapped for musing, e.g. in an academic paper or perhaps even in the classroom, that Catholicism ought to teach something that it doesn’t or that Catholic thinking led the theologian to a conclusion that was contrary to Church teaching.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Yes they do. and Bishops, if they are Shepherding their flock, are generating corrective communications to “Theologians”, who go “public” with their “musings” that sound like THEY are the ONLY authority on the subject to which they speak. Joe Blow Catholic can’t tell the difference, I dare say.

Certainly the article writer confered a certain authority upon the Catholic theologians. (The article never bothered to explain how the theologians arrived at their conclusion, a sure sign of reliance on authority, it just claimed Catholic theologians support same-sex marriage and then went on to give opinion statistics and quote Dolan stating the Church’s position.)

I suppose if I took the trouble I could find out what the theologians’ arguments are but it’s interesting, and significant, that they are not presented in the article.

 

[markeverett49]

Ohhhhhh - the musings of theologians.

Teaching authority in the Catholic Church stops at the Bishops. Sorry theologians…

What do the bishops know about theology that they didn’t learn from theologians? Aquinas has influenced many a pope. Again, I oppose dissent, but let’s not pretend that being raised to the episcopacy carries an infusion of theological knowledge. It doesn’t. Bishops can only teach what they have learned, and what they learned about theology, they learned from theologians.

 

[Faithdancer]

Any article that quotes Dan Maguire as an authority on any Catholic moral position ought not to be taken seriously.
mu-warrior.blogspot.com/2012/02/dan-maguire-just-short-step-from.html

Here is the course description for one of his classes this semester. Unfortunately I couldn’t find one for his “moral theology” class, as those are even worse, but I think you can get the idea from this:
marquette.edu/theology/documents/2410_103_Maguire_001.pdf

I have had many good theology professors at Marquette but the fact that Maguire and his nonsense are tolerated here is nothing short of a disgrace.

I’m sure, of course, that most of the theologians Maguire reads and holds in high esteem probably support same-sex marriage, but that should not be taken to say anything about Catholic theologians as a whole. And in any case, what “most theologians believe”, while it can have at times unfortunate effects on what people are taught, does not necessarily have any bearing on Church doctrine.

Ugh, just skimming that MU Warrior article made my blood curdle. What a shame that Marquette, and Loyola Marymount, and Pepperdine, and so many other large, so-called “Catholic” universities have sold out the faith in their effort to become secularist “think tanks.” Even Catholic U of A doesn’t seem to be immune from this revisionist, secularist approach to teaching “Catholic theology.” It’s no wonder that the Cardinal Newman society only approves some two dozen colleges in this country, and almost all of them are relatively small and unknown.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

Ugh, just skimming that MU Warrior article made my blood curdle. What a shame that Marquette, and Loyola Marymount, and Pepperdine, and so many other large, so-called “Catholic” universities have sold out the faith in their effort to become secularist “think tanks.” Even Catholic U of A doesn’t seem to be immune from this revisionist, secularist approach to teaching “Catholic theology.” It’s no wonder that the Cardinal Newman society only approves some two dozen colleges in this country, and almost all of them are relatively small and unknown.

It really is hard to figure out why so many Theologans are so wierd. I never rely on the opinion of a Theologan unless I know absolutely they have been proven orthodox.

 

[highplainsrider]

It really is hard to figure out why so many Theologans are so wierd. I never rely on the opinion of a Theologan unless I know absolutely they have been proven orthodox.

Here lies the substance of “Bubba’s” inquiry as to the size of the “majority” or vocal “minority” of “Theologians” who dissent from the teaching authority of the Catholic Church, on Faith and Morals. How can one determine or “know who is absolutely, proven orthodox” in the arena of that discipline? So far, there are a few mentioned who are dissenters, and still teaching without disciplinary action?

 

[Linusthe2nd]

Here lies the substance of “Bubba’s” inquiry as to the size of the “majority” or vocal “minority” of “Theologians” who dissent from the teaching authority of the Catholic Church, on Faith and Morals. How can one determine or “know who is absolutely, proven orthodox” in the arena of that discipline? So far, there are a few mentioned who are dissenters, and still teaching without disciplinary action?

Right. I think the statement is wrong but there is no way to prove it. As far as my own statement is concerned one can just go with the theologians the Church has relied upon from time to time down through the centuries, beginning with our own Pope and the other Popes back through the 20th century and the men they relied upon. But I have never found a situation where I felt the actual teaching of the Church was silent except one and that one item does not touch me personally so I won’t mention it.

So always go to the Church and its documents first. If you find silence there and its a big deal to you personally ( i.e. a big moral issue ) ask a trusted pastor.

 

[Cinette]

On the subject of same-sex marriage:

thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/05/11/do-most-catholic-theologians-support-same-sex-marriage.html

catholicexchange.com/catholic-theologians-blast-bishops-for-opposing-gay-marriage/

I realize that these articles are dated (May of this year) but the claim is interesting. On the one hand, I certainly don’t intend to take the word of one or two theologians as all nor assume that theologians know more than bishops on the subject.

But, nevertheless, I am curious as to whether the claim is true, that a majority of Catholic theologians favor same-sex marriage. I would not be at all surprised given that Catholic theologians are largely employed as university professors.

*The Catholic Church would NEVER condone same-sex “marriage” - one would have to be mentally retarded to think so! *

 

[buffalo]

What do the bishops know about theology that they didn’t learn from theologians? Aquinas has influenced many a pope. Again, I oppose dissent, but let’s not pretend that being raised to the episcopacy carries an infusion of theological knowledge. It doesn’t. Bishops can only teach what they have learned, and what they learned about theology, they learned from theologians.

There are theologians and there are Theologians.

Where are Jesus’ teachings in all of this???