Daily Eucharist

[twf]

Brother Mardukm:
Does the Coptic Church celebrate the Eucharistic sacrifice daily as the Latin Church does?Many popes and great saints have strongly promoted the great spiritual value of daily celebration. Would many Eastern Catholics understand this to be a ‘Latin only’ thing? Of course even in the modern Latin Church, the holy sacrifice is not offered on Good Friday and Holy Saturday (except during the Easter Vigil- though by that time the Church has liturgically entered into Easter)

 

[mardukm]

Dear brother Tyler,

Brother Mardukm:
Does the Coptic Church celebrate the Eucharistic sacrifice daily as the Latin Church does?Many popes and great saints have strongly promoted the great spiritual value of daily celebration. Would many Eastern Catholics understand this to be a ‘Latin only’ thing? Of course even in the modern Latin Church, the holy sacrifice is not offered on Good Friday and Holy Saturday (except during the Easter Vigil- though by that time the Church has liturgically entered into Easter)

In Egypt, yes. It’s not normative elsewhere, though I certainly haven’t been everywhere the COC exists. E.g., I don’t know what happens in the British Orthodox Church.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[Cluny]

Keep in mind that Providence has deemed it fitting for the largest Catholic Tradition (Latin) to embrace and promote a daily celebration of the Eucharist. This was not originally our tradition, but something the Spirit led us to adopt as a fuller understanding of the nature of the mass came to fruition. Have not many Eastern Catholic churches also adopted the practice of a daily Eucharist?

Actually, Daily Masses in the Western Church were a development of monasticism, especially with masses for the faithful departed, though the influence of celebrating the entire liturgical round daily has always been part of cenobitic monasticism.

St. Benedict’s Rule goes into great detail about the Divine Office, but says nothing about a daily Mass. Don’t you think that’s telling?

The Low Mass developed to allow priests to liturgize daily, without the corps of ministers and singers needed for the normative celebration–the Missa Solemnis. The missa privata (a mass “deprived” of its full ceremonial) has become the norm from the point of view of the pew, however.

Some Eastern Catholic churches have a daily Eucharistic Sacrifice–but some don’t, especially in the USA. Most of our parishes are NOT (or are no longer) neighborhood parishes.

Generally in the Byzantine and Orthodox tradition, since there’s no such thing as a Low Mass (a mass said in a low voice or missa privata), a daily Liturgy is the function of cathedrals and larger monasterires.

But you’re right. The “pure/clean offering/oblation/sacrifice” in Malachi has always been understood to mean the Eucharistic Sacrifice.

 

[misterdasher]

Hi Marduk

From the OT, Malachi prophesied about the coming of daily mass. Where a perfect offering to the Father is acceptable.

Hmm. From the context, I understood Malachi to mean “everywhere” - where “from the rising of the sun to its setting” is a poetic way of saying “from East to West” (which is, itself, a poeticism of the mundane “everywhere”).

Mal 1:
6 "A son honors his father, and a servant his master. If then I am a father, where is my honor? And if I am a master, where is my fear? says the LORD of hosts to you, O priests, who despise my name. You say, ‘How have we despised thy name?’ 7 By offering polluted food upon my altar. And you say, ‘How have we polluted it?’* By thinking that the LORD’s table may be despised. 8 When you offer blind animals in sacrifice, is that no evil? And when you offer those that are lame or sick, is that no evil? Present that to your governor; will he be pleased with you or show you favor? says the LORD of hosts. 9 And now entreat the favor of God, that he may be gracious to us. With such a gift from your hand, will he show favor to any of you? says the LORD of hosts. 10 Oh, that there were one among you who would shut the doors, that you might not kindle fire upon my altar in vain! I have no pleasure in you, says the LORD of hosts, and I will not accept an offering from your hand. 11 For from the rising of the sun to its setting my name is great among the nations, and in every place incense is offered to my name, and a pure offering; for my name is great among the nations, says the LORD of hosts. 12 But you profane it when you say that the LORD’s table is polluted, and the food for it* may be despised. 13 ‘What a weariness this is,’ you say, and you sniff at me, * says the LORD of hosts. You bring what has been taken by violence or is lame or sick, and this you bring as your offering! Shall I accept that from your hand? says the LORD. 14 Cursed be the cheat who has a male in his flock, and vows it, and yet sacrifices to the Lord what is blemished; for I am a great King, says the LORD of hosts, and my name is feared among the nations

From the rising of the sun to its setting, i.e. daily

• in every place
• a pure offering for my name is done daily, says the Lord of Hosts

Rereading the passage, I’m struck by the fact that (in this translation) Malachi does not say “For from the rising of the sun to its setting my name is great every day, and every day incense is offered to my name, and a pure offering; for my name is great every day of the week, says the LORD of hosts.”

Instead, he seems to specify that, as another prophet says, the word of the Lord will go out from Jerusalem unto the ends of the earth. In other words, that God will no longer be worshipped only in Jerusalem, and that, as you and others noted, this geographically comprehensive worship will be Eucharistic. Like so:

For from the rising of the sun to its setting my name is great among the nations, and in every place incense is offered to my name, and a pure offering; for my name is great among the nations, says the LORD of hosts.

I, for one, would like to hear more of your thoughts on the matter. Am I misreading this passage? Do the Fathers understand this passage differently? Are there other places in Scripture where daily Eucharist is typified?

For example, manna was a type of Christ. Extending the typology, God’s provision for Israel’s daily bread could typify daily Eucharist. The problem with that, though, is that God provided manna every day except on the Sabbath. The counter to that objection, however, is that God still provided a sort of “reserved” manna for their daily food, but was teaching the Israelites about the importance of weekly rest.

Anybody have any other examples? That’s the only one, with pro and con arguments, that I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[Cluny]

One thing:

Bear in mind that what I said about the development of the Daily Mass in the West is merely a historical comment.

I believe in the principle of daily Communion, and were it possible for me to get to a daily Eucharist, I would.

Alas, this has not been an option open to me.

 

[misterdasher]

N.B.: In my post above, I wasn’t objecting to the practice of daily Eucharist. I was merely thinking about steveb’s interpretation of the passage from Malachi, and wondering about that aspect of the discussion. Reading back over it, I didn’t make that clear. And the “Edit” button isn’t there anymore…

 

[mardukm]

Dear brother Robertwilliam,

If I may add my two cents worth:In the Eastern Church, most parishes have married clergy. In order to receive communion, the priest must refrain from sex. The same goes for laity. I only know of one married priest who had daily Liturgy, St. John of Kronstadt. He was a married CELEBATE priest in the Russian Orthodox Church, he and his wife lived as brother and sister their whole marrage.
I would advise every one to read up on his life.

That is the reason most Eastern Churches do not have daily communion.

I have met EO who claim that daily Eucharist cheapens the value of the Eucharist. I suspect these EO may have been converts from Protestantism and brought in their persepctive with them, since I have heard that very rationale from Protestants as their reason for rarely having the communion service in their communities.

You’ve given a good, patristic reason for the current practice. I thank you for that.

I should add that the Fathers who supported daily or at least frequent communion (more than the once-weekly standard) did so on a theological basis - the teaching of our Lord on the necessity of the Bread of Life. Sinner that I am, I take advantage of the Eucharist for spiritual strength as often as I can.

Of course, I have no complaints against any Church’s own practice. The Church has always had the authority to regulate the distribution of the Sacraments. I am glad that it is at least available daily in the Latin Church.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[Diak]

Diak:
I disagree. The ‘pure offering’, to me, implies a sacrifice: hence, the holy sacrifice of Christ made present during the Eucharist.

Keep in mind that Providence has deemed it fitting for the largest Catholic Tradition (Latin) to embrace and promote a daily celebration of the Eucharist. This was not originally our tradition, but something the Spirit led us to adopt as a fuller understanding of the nature of the mass came to fruition. Have not many Eastern Catholic churches also adopted the practice of a daily Eucharist?

twf: A review the understanding of “eucharist” in the ancient Church and you will see that it applied to not only the Divine Liturgy/Mass but the entire cycle of the Divine Praises, basically the “sacrifice of praise” which was the entirety of the liturgical cycle of services. Daily Liturgy or Mass before the Middle Ages outside of the very largest cathedrals was generally a rarity.

As Marduk has mentioned, daily Divine Liturgy in the east is not really all that common. And as Cluny has also very correctly mentioned, daily Mass in the west came late and only with the proliferation of monastic clergy. Daily Divine Liturgy in Eastern Catholic Churches is a more modern practice, and actually several priests are now moving away from it in favor of the more ancient practice and the restoration of more of the Divine Praises.

“Providence” has deemed it fitting for every particular Church to worship the Most Holy Trinity in each’s particularly beautiful way and received tradition, and does not prefer one over another. And as Ronald Knox of venerable memory reminds us, we should be very careful when deciding what and where the Spirit has led us to.

While I certainly do not have strong negative feelings against daily Liturgy or Mass (my own particular Church does this in a number of parishes) and occasionally attend a Latin daily Mass myself, spiritual significance can be assigned to anything. The historical reality is that daily Mass in the West really didn’t occur until there was a proliferation of monastic/religious order priests with a daily obedience or “obligation” to celebrate Mass.

Looking at it as an Eastern Catholic I think this practice may have an unintended consequence not of “cheapening” the Eucharist (nothing could “cheapen” reception of our Lord) but rather of minimalizing the Divine Praises and thus a huge part of the Eucharistic cycle and with it an immense corpus of catechetical, mystagogical and dogmatic liturgical experience, in parochial usage.

 

[steve_b]

Hmm. From the context, I understood Malachi to mean “everywhere” - where “from the rising of the sun to its setting” is a poetic way of saying “from East to West”

It’s that too.
m:

Rereading the passage, I’m struck by the fact that (in this translation) Malachi does not say “For from the rising of the sun to its setting my name is great every day, and every day incense is offered to my name, and a pure offering; for my name is great every day of the week, says the LORD of hosts.”

Instead, he seems to specify that, as another prophet says, the word of the Lord will go out from Jerusalem unto the ends of the earth. In other words, that God will no longer be worshipped only in Jerusalem, and that, as you and others noted, this geographically comprehensive worship will be Eucharistic. Like so:

For from the rising of the sun to its setting my name is great among the nations, and in every place incense is offered to my name, and a pure offering; for my name is great among the nations, says the LORD of hosts.

How often did Jews sacrifice in the temple? Daily.

Malachi therefore was refering to daily. And that’s how he desscribes it,

go back to genesis to see how a day is described

Gen 1:
1* IN the beginning God created* the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit* of God was moving over the face of the waters. 3 And God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 And God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.
m:

I, for one, would like to hear more of your thoughts on the matter. Am I misreading this passage? Do the Fathers understand this passage differently? Are there other places in Scripture where daily Eucharist is typified?

For example, manna was a type of Christ. Extending the typology, God’s provision for Israel’s daily bread could typify daily Eucharist. The problem with that, though, is that God provided manna every day except on the Sabbath. The counter to that objection, however, is that God still provided a sort of “reserved” manna for their daily food, but was teaching the Israelites about the importance of weekly rest.

Anybody have any other examples? That’s the only one, with pro and con arguments, that I can think of off the top of my head.

Why are you concerned about daily Eucharist? Are you trying to defend it with someone who is attacking this?

 

[misterdasher]

Why are you concerned about daily Eucharist? Are you trying to defend it with someone who is attacking this?

No, no, nothing of the sort. Your line of reasoning just piqued my interest, which is why I asked you to extend your remarks a bit.

Gratefully –

 

[mardukm]

Looking at it as an Eastern Catholic I think this practice may have an unintended consequence not of “cheapening” the Eucharist (nothing could “cheapen” reception of our Lord) but rather of minimalizing the Divine Praises and thus a huge part of the Eucharistic cycle and with it an immense corpus of catechetical, mystagogical and dogmatic liturgical experience, in parochial usage.

That’s another interesting perspective, worthy of consideration. Personally, I gain spiritual blessings from the entire Liturgy, no matter how often I participate (I guess because I feel I need the blessings so often). It’s like the Lord’s Prayer. I can say it often, and often do throughout the day, and each time, I feel like the words are honey on my lips, riches to my mind, and a balm on my soul.

Humbly,
Marduk

 

[twf]

Diak: I only meant that as the Pope and bishops of the Latin Church have deemed it fitting to encourage and even require a daily celebration of the Eucharist, I, as the Church’s faithful son, can only assume that Providence has deigned that a daily sacrifice be offered. Does it matter if the practice evolved over a period of many centuries? ‘whatsoever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven…’ I wasn’t suggesting that the Latin practice is superior. Many saints have, however testified to the immense graces the Church receives by virtue of the daily repetition of the holy sacrifice.

 

[Aramis]

Diak: I only meant that as the Pope and bishops of the Latin Church have deemed it fitting to encourage and even require a daily celebration of the Eucharist, I, as the Church’s faithful son, can only assume that Providence has deigned that a daily sacrifice be offered. Does it matter if the practice evolved over a period of many centuries? ‘whatsoever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven…’ I wasn’t suggesting that the Latin practice is superior. Many saints have, however testified to the immense graces the Church receives by virtue of the daily repetition of the holy sacrifice.

by implying that the ECC’s should adopt it, you implied it superior. The eastern system of aliturgical days is also tied to the themes of the days for the office of the hours.

 

[twf]

Aramis: I didn’t say that the ECC should adopt a daily Eucharist; I said that their MAY be value in the Eastern churches freely adopting the practice as the Latin and (apparently) Coptic Chuches have. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Aramis]

Aramis: I didn’t say that the ECC should adopt a daily Eucharist; I said that their MAY be value in the Eastern churches freely adopting the practice as the Latin and (apparently) Coptic Chuches have. Sorry for the confusion.

You’re STILL implying it’s superior. “There may be value in” is an implication of a lack of value in the extant practice, AND a willful violation of a papal encyclical!

Suggesting the East adopt notably western customs is a prohibited action… prohibited by the Pope.

The Copts never had the system of aliturgical days in use in the Byzantine Rite; the Byzantines never developed the multiple levels of fast described by some assyrians…

The aliturgical days are part of the faith tradition of the Byzantine Churches, not just the DL cycle, but the whole weekly and bimonthly prayer cycles. They are part of the office of the hours; the propers from the octoechos mirror the aliturgical days in being penitential. It is theologically inappropriate to have Divine Liturgy on days of penance in the byzantine praxis. When certain feasts occur, if significant enough, they are celebrated, AND the hours use alternate propers to match, AND the liturgy trumps the whole day, including any fast that may exist. If not significant enough, properly, the hours alone are modified, keeping the penitential material and adding the commemorative propers.

 

[Cluny]

The only aliturgical days, that is, days on which the Eucharistic Liturgy is forbidden in the Byzantine Tradition, are the Wednesday and Friday before Lent (and even then, the Liturgy can be celebrated if a saint’s major feast falls on this day or even local patron), and Monday-Friday during Great Lent and Holy Week, with the exceptions of Annunciation and Holy Thursday, and maybe one or two others (depending on how the Typicon is interpreted).

Even on the Weekdays in Great Lent, the Divine Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts, normally celebrated just on Wednesday and Friday (and the first three days of Holy Week and fifth Thursday), may be celebrated daily if a church has a custom of a daily Divine Liturgy, exept on Holy Thursday, Holy Friday, and Holy Saturday.

 

[steve_b]

You’re STILL implying it’s superior. “There may be value in” is an implication of a lack of value in the extant practice, AND a willful violation of a papal encyclical!

Suggesting the East adopt notably western customs is a prohibited action… prohibited by the Pope.

The Copts never had the system of aliturgical days in use in the Byzantine Rite; the Byzantines never developed the multiple levels of fast described by some assyrians…

The aliturgical days are part of the faith tradition of the Byzantine Churches, not just the DL cycle, but the whole weekly and bimonthly prayer cycles. They are part of the office of the hours; the propers from the octoechos mirror the aliturgical days in being penitential.** It is theologically inappropriate to have Divine Liturgy on days of penance in the byzantine praxis**. When certain feasts occur, if significant enough, they are celebrated, AND the hours use alternate propers to match, AND the liturgy trumps the whole day, including any fast that may exist. If not significant enough, properly, the hours alone are modified, keeping the penitential material and adding the commemorative propers.

I’m not understanding the argument. In the Latin rite, we have daily Eucharist. This is the height and summit of our worship.

 

[Robertwilliam]

I’m not understanding the argument. In the Latin rite, we have daily Eucharist. This is the height and summit of our worship.

Why don’t you talk to an Eastern Catholic Priest and read read read. There is more to the Catholic Church than the Latin Catholic Rite.

 

[mardukm]

Dear brother Steveb,

I’m not understanding the argument. In the Latin rite, we have daily Eucharist. This is the height and summit of our worship.

I don’t think brother Aramis was making any comment about the Latin practice, or trying to suggest that the Byzantine practice was “better.” He was simply pointing out the difference among the Churches, describing the Byzantine praxis, and promoting the equal dignity and value of each Rite.

Blessings

 

[steve_b]

There is more to the Catholic Church than the Latin Catholic Rite.

That’s true. Even though by numbers, ~ 98% of the Catholic Church is the Latin rite, ALL rites in the Catholic Church are equal in dignity. And the pope and magesterium defend ALL Catholic rites as equal.