Dallas Officer Reassigned After Alleged Harassment on ‘Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day’

[Seeker1961]

Someone walks into the office and sticks their coffee cup in your face and says “I bought my coffee at Starbucks because they support gay marriage-you Catholics are WRONG!” Would that make you feel comfortable in your work environment?

If the police protection was for August 1st and the supervisor singled out the Christians and gave them dirty looks or made comments about how dumb it was-would that be ok?

We still don’t know what really went on in the room-without video it’s they said/he said.

When it comes to the workplace, I think we need to treat others as we would like to be treated, even if it means we have to not share every opinion we have about every issue.

 

[vz71]

Someone walks into the office and sticks their coffee cup in your face and says “I bought my coffee at Starbucks because they support gay marriage-you Catholics are WRONG!” Would that make you feel comfortable in your work environment?

If the police protection was for August 1st and the supervisor singled out the Christians and gave them dirty looks or made comments about how dumb it was-would that be ok?

We still don’t know what really went on in the room-without video it’s they said/he said.

Confusion.

Either we do or we do not know precisely what was said.
But apparently you are speculating the worst possible scenario already.

Snap judgements with no evidence erode credibility.

 

[Seeker1961]

Confusion.

Either we do or we do not know precisely what was said.
But apparently you are speculating the worst possible scenario already.

Snap judgements with no evidence erode credibility.

You quoted me saying we have no idea what went on in this instance. Why do you now accuse me of saying I do??

I believe that we need to treat our fellow workers the way we wish to be treated-even if we do not agree. My examples were illustrations of how we could be treated in a workplace that might make us feel uncomfortable.

 

[vz71]

You quoted me saying we have no idea what went on in this instance. Why do you now accuse me of saying I do??

This is why.

Someone walks into the office and sticks their coffee cup in your face and says “I bought my coffee at Starbucks because they support gay marriage-you Catholics are WRONG!” Would that make you feel comfortable in your work environment?

If the police protection was for August 1st and the supervisor singled out the Christians and gave them dirty looks or made comments about how dumb it was-would that be ok?

It appears you are already deciding a judgement without all of the facts.

 

[Seeker1961]

This is why.

It appears you are already deciding a judgement without all of the facts.

Please read the entire post. I have made NO judgement on the events in question!!!

 

[vz71]

Please read the entire post. I have made NO judgement on the events in question!!!

Then what why exactly the examples?

Someone walks into the office and sticks their coffee cup in your face and says “I bought my coffee at Starbucks because they support gay marriage-you Catholics are WRONG!” Would that make you feel comfortable in your work environment?

If the police protection was for August 1st and the supervisor singled out the Christians and gave them dirty looks or made comments about how dumb it was-would that be ok?

We still don’t know what really went on in the room-without video it’s they said/he said.

When it comes to the workplace, I think we need to treat others as we would like to be treated, even if it means we have to not share every opinion we have about every issue.

If you really have made no judgement, the examples would seem to imply otherwise.

You could readily have made a point of non-judgement without implying anything one way or the other.

 

[Seeker1961]

Then what why exactly the examples?

If you really have made no judgement, the examples would seem to imply otherwise.

You could readily have made a point of non-judgement without implying anything one way or the other.

Ok, let’s try this again. THIS IS NOT ABOUT DALLAS. THIS IS A HYPOTHETICAL DISCUSSION ABOUT WORKPLACE BEHAVIOR AND HOW IT DIFFERS FROM PUBLIC FREE SPEECH.

You work in an office. You are a Christian. Your co-workers are not. In fact, they don’t like you because you are Christian. They openly insult you.

My position is: if it would make us uncomfortable, then we should not do it to others.

 

[vz71]

Ok, let’s try this again. THIS IS NOT ABOUT DALLAS. THIS IS A HYPOTHETICAL DISCUSSION ABOUT WORKPLACE BEHAVIOR AND HOW IT DIFFERS FROM PUBLIC FREE SPEECH.

You work in an office. You are a Christian. Your co-workers are not. In fact, they don’t like you because you are Christian. They openly insult you.

My position is: if it would make us uncomfortable, then we should not do it to others.

Everyone experiences discomfort from others at one time or another.
That is life.

You are correct that certain actions should not be made in the workplace, but you have opened a slippery slope.

What speech will we restrict?
Which words? What actions?

How do we determine the insult intended? How do we punish unintended insult?

And last, why do we have to sacrifice so much freedom and liberty before the altar of ‘tolerance’?

 

[Seeker1961]

Everyone experiences discomfort from others at one time or another.
That is life.

You are correct that certain actions should not be made in the workplace, but you have opened a slippery slope.

What speech will we restrict?
Which words? What actions?

How do we determine the insult intended? How do we punish unintended insult?

And last, why do we have to sacrifice so much freedom and liberty before the altar of ‘tolerance’?

If we all go into the office planning to treat others as we would wish to be treated, that will go a long way to insure that there is little need to restrict anything.

There is a proper time and place for everything. I’ve worked in offices for 20 years and I’ve never had to deal with anything like this. Everywhere I’ve worked has had a foundational principle of good manners and fair treatment. We leave the poltics and the evangelism at the door. You can be proud of who you are and what you believe without shoving it in people’s faces or denigrating those who disagree.

 

[vz71]

If we all go into the office planning to treat others as we would wish to be treated, that will go a long way to insure that there is little need to restrict anything.

There is a proper time and place for everything. I’ve worked in offices for 20 years and I’ve never had to deal with anything like this. Everywhere I’ve worked has had a foundational principle of good manners and fair treatment. We leave the poltics and the evangelism at the door. You can be proud of who you are and what you believe without shoving it in people’s faces or denigrating those who disagree.

And yet my Catholic medal is restricted at work.
I am not allowed to wear it. Apparently this raw display of my faith is offensive to others.

It is a slippery slope.

Oiled well with the fact that it is always immorality that does not judge actions wrong.

 

[Zosimus41]

I probably wouldn’t be happy, but I don’t think I would run to momma. We do have free speech in this country.

Seems you only have free speech if your a liberal or stay the politically correct course.

Other wise your branded as a hater.

John the Baptist had no problem warning people about their sins.

The world would probably want to behead him today as well.

 

[Seeker1961]

And yet my Catholic medal is restricted at work.
I am not allowed to wear it. Apparently this raw display of my faith is offensive to others.

It is a slippery slope.

Oiled well with the fact that it is always immorality that does not judge actions wrong.

I’m not allowed to wear mine either. My Jewish co-worker cannot wear his Star of David. It is not discriminatory policy. All necklaces are banned. We are allowed to wear one ring on each hand and if it just happens to be a crucifix ring…well, gee…

I can read my Bible on my iPad during my breaks and I can most certainly pray to God whenever I want, as long as I’m not standing on a chair screaming it. My 10 bead Rosary is in my pocket all the time.

I don’t view the workplace as a place to preach-no matter what it is you’re preaching about.

 

[vz71]

I don’t view the workplace as a place to preach-no matter what it is you’re preaching about.

And a Catholic medal is preaching.


Or perhaps even a chicken sandwich.

Seems to me you have just started the slide.
Let’s ban anything that reminds anyone of God.

 

[Regular_Atheist]

Seems you only have free speech if your a liberal or stay the politically correct course.

Other wise your branded as a hater.

John the Baptist had no problem warning people about their sins.

The world would probably want to behead him today as well.

Because sins don’t exist to me, or to lots of other people. I don’t want to hear about what your religion says of me. I don’t care, and it’s annoying.

 

[vz71]

Because sins don’t exist to me, or to lots of other people. I don’t want to hear about what your religion says of me. I don’t care, and it’s annoying.

And yet you are on a Catholic forum.

 

[Seeker1961]

And a Catholic medal is preaching.


Or perhaps even a chicken sandwich.

Seems to me you have just started the slide.
Let’s ban anything that reminds anyone of God

If the rules apply to all how can you claim that it’s about banning anything that reminds anyone of God?

I find the restrictions at my workplace help provide a comfortable environment for EVERYONE. People know I’m Catholic, but they aren’t allowed to condemn me for it or preach at me that their evangelical faith is right and mine is wrong. My co-workers who disdain religion in all its forms are not allowed to preach at me about that. And in return, I don’t preach at them about my faith being the only true faith. We’re together for 50-60 hours a week, and if those simple rules can make the environment more pleasant each day I can certainly learn to live with them.

If the restriction on the Catholic medal is too much for you to bear, perhaps you should look for an employer that will allow you to wear it.

In this specific case-I still feel that if EITHER side was making a deliberate attempt to denigrate the other then it is inappropriate behavior for the workplace.

 

[Taestron]

If the rules apply to all how can you claim that it’s about banning anything that reminds anyone of God?

You know, this is a similar argument that defenders of traditional marriage use against the same-sex marriage objection of equality. If you look at it that nobody can marry someone of the same gender then its equality; if you look at it that heterosexuals can marry the person they love and homosexuals can’t, it is inequality. The crux of the matter here is that athiests do not have religious symbols to ban, and so people of faith could feel slighted. I tend to say, if it is banned for everyone, then there is no unjust discrimination.

I find the restrictions at my workplace help provide a comfortable environment for EVERYONE. People know I’m Catholic, but they aren’t allowed to condemn me for it or preach at me that their evangelical faith is right and mine is wrong. My co-workers who disdain religion in all its forms are not allowed to preach at me about that. And in return, I don’t preach at them about my faith being the only true faith. We’re together for 50-60 hours a week, and if those simple rules can make the environment more pleasant each day I can certainly learn to live with them.

I certainly see your point, and to a certain extent I agree with you. However, I am uncomfortable with some of the implications. You don’t or are not allowed to “preach” to your coworkers during the work week, so when do you “preach” to them? Should you endanger the wellness of their souls just to have a more pleasant environment? Yes, when you are at the workplace you need to be focused on work. However, what you are saying seems dangerously close to the idea that Christ is not welcome in your workplace.

In this specific case-I still feel that if EITHER side was making a deliberate attempt to denigrate the other then it is inappropriate behavior for the workplace.

Agreed. However, we have so little unbiased information in this case that I must suspend all judgment. Even the story from the officer in question would help.

 

[vz71]

If the rules apply to all how can you claim that it’s about banning anything that reminds anyone of God?

Only those that do not wish to be reminded of some uncomfortable facts have problems with the symbol that dredges up that fact.
Until recently, no one thought twice about the Chick-Fil-A lunch I would bring in to work.
Now it has taken on a different meaning.
Perhaps we should ban these items in the workplace to make sure everyone is comfortable.
In an environment where the comfort of the many is held in higher regard then religious freedom, where exactly is God?

I find the restrictions at my workplace help provide a comfortable environment for EVERYONE. People know I’m Catholic, but they aren’t allowed to condemn me for it or preach at me that their evangelical faith is right and mine is wrong. My co-workers who disdain religion in all its forms are not allowed to preach at me about that. And in return, I don’t preach at them about my faith being the only true faith. We’re together for 50-60 hours a week, and if those simple rules can make the environment more pleasant each day I can certainly learn to live with them.

So for the sake of the comfort of other employees you have put away any outward sign of your faith in God?

If the restriction on the Catholic medal is too much for you to bear, perhaps you should look for an employer that will allow you to wear it.

Actually, I was invited to resign from that place long ago.
There was more then the Catholic medal going on.
At the root of it all was a boss that was not a practicing catholic, that had serious disagreements with the church on abortion, female priests, and IVF.
Anyone that worked under her that in any way reminded her of a church she hated ended up on the losing side.
No, I did not preach to anyone. Nor did I overtly display my religion. Or even ‘wear my church on my sleeve’.
What it came down to was that I lived my faith, and that was enough reminder for me to catch the hatred my boss had for the church.
That is where this slope leads.
Today it is simply symbols that remind others of a faith they do not like.
Tomorrow it will be actions that remind others of a faith they do not like.
And soon it will simply be living the faith that will be banned.

‘Tolerance’ is not about banning anything for the sake of comfort.

In this specific case-I still feel that if EITHER side was making a deliberate attempt to denigrate the other then it is inappropriate behavior for the workplace.

Denigration is not the same as making someone uncomfortable.

 

[Seeker1961]

Denigration makes me plenty uncomfortable.

There is a huge difference between “any outward sign” and preaching. People at my workplace have items in their cubicles that clearly speak to their beliefs. None of that is banned. People talk about their faith on occasion, but it’s simply a part of conversation, like “oh, I missed that show last night, I was at church choir rehearsal” or “I never thought it would be so hard to get one small child ready for Mass on Sunday morning!”. Conversation about life is not the same thing as directing statements toward another person for the purpose of accusing them of being “sinners” or “believers in the Sky God”. Those kind of statements are taking it too far.

Honestly, if I’m going to share my faith with someone I work with, I’m going to get to know them first. It would come from an already forming friendship that was beyond the workplace.

 

[vz71]

Denigration is not the same as making someone uncomfortable.

Denigration makes me plenty uncomfortable.

As I said, they are not the same.

Discomfort may be an aspect, but it does not necessarily follow.

If you plan on banning things that make others uncomfortable, you will eventually end up banning people that simply live their faith.