Dancing before the Blessed Sacrament

[ericcantona71]

I saw this video with people dancing before the Blessed Sacrament:

uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sRULNTperWE

And I noticed in one of the comment boxes Scripture quotes (see below) which people use often to prove that this activity is ok. Their reasoning seems to be that David danced before the Ark of the Covenant and thus we should be imitating this man of God in the New Covenant. At a gut level I know this wrong, but how should one explain that dancing before the Lord when the Blessed Sacrament is exposed is wrong in view of these pieces of Scriptures?:

“Let them praise His name with dancing; Let them sing praises to Him with timbrel and lyre.” Psalm 149:3

“And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod.” 2 Samuel 6:14

“Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.” Psalm 150:4

 

[Christy_Beth]

If I remember correctly “Liturgical” dancing is not allowed. I don’t know, it seems disrespectful.

 

[scylla]

The new ark of the covenant is Mary, the Biblical passages described are similar to a Marian procession in the Bible, where we take a statue of Mary and walk through the streets.

If there is any dancing in a procession, it should not be done disrespectfully and the women\men who dance should be as modest as Mary, who is our model for modesty. David on the other hand is not really a model for Catholics unless we commit adultery, arrange for peoples death and dance naked.

Just because some passages point to different practices it doesn’t make it open for every practice to be done when we want to. Do we pick up snakes in Church? Everything should be taken in context and with the understanding of our faith. So how have we worshipped God for the last couple thousand years? What is the prevailing way of worship?

Not dance, but the Mass not with dance but with reverence and a focus on Christ.

That dance linked is just plain fruity which seems to be the motivation behind this sort of thing, fruity Catholics. What would a saint say about that sort of behavior, for example St. Padre Pio, what would he say?

In Christ,
Scylla

 

[saint_rafael]

That is sacrilege. They have no understanding of the sacred or supernatural.

If they understood the glory and honor of God they wouldn’t act like idiots in front of the almighty.
This is proof the Catholics have completely lost their faith.

That was not liturgy that David was doing. David danced before the Ark, but the Ark was not God himself. You don’t dance in front of God. You kneel down and give reverence. St. Paul says every knee should bend at the name of Jesus, how much more reverent are we supposed to be when we are actually in his physical presense?

 

[Ad_Deum_1]

That wasn’t just dancing before the Blessed Sacrament! The priest was dancing WITH the Blessed Sacrament!!!

To quote Cardinal Arinze (at a conference for the Apostolate for Family Consecration):

“Why make the people of God suffer so much? Haven’t we enough problems already? Only Sunday, one hour, they come to adore God. And you bring a dance! Are you so poor you have nothing else to bring us? Shame on you! That’s how I feel about it.”

 

[fdmilkis]

Do you guys even know what inculturation is?

I say the video is ok since in South America(I’m guessing) dancing is an integral part of their culture.

 

[Dauphin]

Do you guys even know what inculturation is?

I say the video is ok since in South America(I’m guessing) dancing is an integral part of their culture.

Sex is an integral part of North American culture. Naturally, that must mean it’s ok to fornicate in front of the Blessed Sacrament. If you disagree, you don’t know what inculturation is.

 

[Ad_Deum_1]

Sex is an integral part of North American culture. Naturally, that must mean it’s ok to fornicate in front of the Blessed Sacrament. If you disagree, you don’t know what inculturation is.

Thank you. :tiphat:

My favorite prayer from the known song for our country and its culture:

America! America!
God mend thine every flaw,
Confirm thy soul in self control,
Thy liberty in law!

 

[LilyM]

Sex is an integral part of North American culture. Naturally, that must mean it’s ok to fornicate in front of the Blessed Sacrament. If you disagree, you don’t know what inculturation is.

Fornication is a sin, sex is a private matter. Neither of those are thus appropriate to do in front of the Blessed Sacrament, nor in any other public or semi-public situation. Dancing is NOT a sin, nor an automatically private matter - apart from the sexualised types of dance, of course.

And who’s talking about immodesty here, no matter how imprudent some of it may have been? It’s not like they’re stripped semi-naked as David was when he danced before the Ark, to the scandal of his wife.

Now picking up and dancing WITH the Blessed Sacrament is indeed quite possibly taking things a step too far. Apart from that, I don’t really see why, outside of the context of Mass (and this was in the context, by the looks of it, of a Eucharistic Congress and not necessarily a Mass at all), in cultures such as Brazil where, thanks to a strong remnant of African slave culture, dance IS part of their culture, it cant be permitted.

 

[Aquinas74]

Do you guys even know what inculturation is?

I say the video is ok since in South America(I’m guessing) dancing is an integral part of their culture.

Please tell me your joking. The blessed sacrament is not to be danced around. That is utterly profane.

 

[Ad_Deum_1]

I don’t really see why, outside of the context of Mass (and this was in the context, by the looks of it, of a Eucharistic Congress and not necessarily a Mass at all), in cultures such as Brazil where, thanks to a strong remnant of African slave culture, dance IS part of their culture, it cant be permitted.

Here is more of what Cardinal Arinze had to say on the topic which may help you better understand why dance is inappropriate in the Mass (or in this case what I believe is before Benediction - at least during Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament):

So all those that want to entertain us – after Mass, let us go to the parish hall and then you can dance. And then we clap. But when we come to Mass we don’t come to clap. We don’t come to watch people, to admire people. We want to adore God, to thank Him, to ask Him pardon for our sins, and to ask Him for what we need.

The problem with what he says there is that some (if not most) people who participate in liturgical dance probably do not go into it with the intention of “entertaining” people. But what the Cardinal says about what we want when we come to Mass is very accurate.

He continues responding to the idea that many Africans dance and sometimes that is present in the Mass:

Moreover, there is a difference between those who come in procession at Offertory; they bring their gifts, with joy. There is a movement of the body right and left. They bring their gifts to God. That is good, really. And some of the choir, they sing. They have a little bit of movement. Nobody is going to condemn that. And when you are going out again, a little movement, it’s all right.

But when you introduce wholesale, say, a ballerina, then I want to ask you what is it all about. What exactly are you arranging? When the people finish dancing in the Mass and then when the dance group finishes and people clap – don’t you see what it means? It means we have enjoyed it. We come for enjoyment. Repeat. So, there is something wrong. Whenever the people clap – there is something wrong – immediately. When they clap – a dance is done and they clap.

And to give liturgical dance the benefit of the doubt:

It is possible that there could be a dance that is so exquisite that it raises people’s minds to God, and they are praying and adoring God and when the dance is finished they are still wrapped up in prayer. But is that the type of dance you have seen? You see. It is not easy.

From what I can tell, the dance seen in this video is not one that “raises people’s minds to God.” The congregation got much enjoyment out of the dance and there was definitely clapping involved. Cardinal Arinze is from a very different culture than ours and he recognizes the importance of movement in some cultures (I think Africa tops the charts here along with Brazil and the rest of South America!).

I think the good Cardinal is right. I also think that this video is plainly exemplifying irreverence. There are many things we do not do in front of the Blessed Sacrament in order to maintain reverence. Married couples generally do not share an intimate kiss during Mass. Women generally dress more modestly when in the presence of Our Eucharistic Lord. Men remove their caps. There is more regard to silence and prayer… all of these things are done for reverence. I believe that refraining from a dance (one that is similar to a performance) is just another way to show reverence to Our Lord.

 

[LilyM]

From what I can tell, the dance seen in this video is not one that “raises people’s minds to God.” The congregation got much enjoyment out of the dance and there was definitely clapping involved. Cardinal Arinze is from a very different culture than ours and he recognizes the importance of movement in some cultures (I think Africa tops the charts here along with Brazil and the rest of South America!).

Surely that’s a matter of opinion - just as some people find the 70s style kumbaya music actually does raise their minds and hearts to God while others find Gregorian chant does, while still others prefer southern-style Gospel or Mozart’s Masses instead. Same with dancing, it does it for some and not for others (who if it’s not done in Mass aren’t obligated to witness it and have no right to comment).

Women generally dress more modestly when in the presence of Our Eucharistic Lord. Men remove their caps. There is more regard to silence and prayer… all of these things are done for reverence. I believe that refraining from a dance (one that is similar to a performance) is just another way to show reverence to Our Lord.

Women generally dress more modestly? If they don’t dress with perfect modesty every day then doing so on Sundays is no virtue, and not an act of reverence, but instead rank hypocrisy. Personally I have nothing (apart from the obvious underwear and swimmers) among any of my clothing that would be too immodest for Mass, although some of it would be too dressy.

 

[Ad_Deum_1]

Women generally dress more modestly? If they don’t dress with perfect modesty every day then doing so on Sundays is no virtue, and not an act of reverence, but instead rank hypocrisy. Personally I have nothing (apart from the obvious underwear and swimmers) among any of my clothing that would be too immodest for Mass, although some of it would be too dressy.

I would stand corrected here… I was trying to account for the women that* do not normally* dress modestly but still see a need to do so when in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament.

As a woman myself I certainly agree with you - modesty is something that must be present at all times. Don’t worry!

 

[adstrinity]

I think the first, “WHOO!” is when it became irreverant. I’ve gone to rock concerts where people didn’t say, “WHOO!” as much.

 

[fdmilkis]

Sex is an integral part of North American culture. Naturally, that must mean it’s ok to fornicate in front of the Blessed Sacrament. If you disagree, you don’t know what inculturation is.

Because you are a stuck up North American traditionalist, I will explain something to you.

In Korea and in other parts of Asia, often families gather around during special events and continue the tradition of ancestor worship.

You would go berserk and ask why do you refer to them as deities and such but it is part of their tradition and the CHURCH ALLOWS IT AS A FORM OF SOCIAL GATHERING.

Have you heard of Shintoism in Japan and Christians, Catholics visiting their shrine as a cultural tradition? Throwing coins and praying to other deities? I see no condemnation by the authority of the Church but rather promotion of such as a cultural event.

Now explain to me, what is so bad about dancing in the Presence of Christ if it is their custom to dance as a form of ritual and worship? Is it irrelevant? By what standard? I’d say all American and Canadian kids are a rebellious hooligans since they don’t bow down to adults.

and of course “If you disagree, you don’t know what inculturation is.”

 

[Esperance]

This isn’t during the Holy Mass where it would most definitely be wrong. I am not sure I would say it sacrilegious but a few thoughts…

Europeans countries have always had numerous forms of dance built into their culture and they have reserved its practice for cultural celebrations not liturgical or spiritual celebrations. I especially think of the Spanish and Irish cultures.

The purpose of adoration is to allow Jesus Christ to reveal himself to us, not the other way around. He already knows us. It seems like it would be quite difficult to deepen our relationship with Him if we are not still and silent.

I have not read of any saints worshiping in this manner, but correct me if I am wrong.

From what I remember, David danced before the ark once, the first time it entered the city of Jerusalem. So I guess if this was the first time the Blessed Sacrament was present in a city and a priest was conducting a Eucharistic procession, then it could be quite justifiable.

 

[Dauphin]

Because you are a stuck up North American traditionalist, I will explain something to you.

In Korea and in other parts of Asia, often families gather around during special events and continue the tradition of ancestor worship.

You would go berserk and ask why do you refer to them as deities and such but it is part of their tradition and the CHURCH ALLOWS IT AS A FORM OF SOCIAL GATHERING.

Have you heard of Shintoism in Japan and Christians, Catholics visiting their shrine as a cultural tradition? Throwing coins and praying to other deities? I see no condemnation by the authority of the Church but rather promotion of such as a cultural event.

The Church need not condemn these activities. God Himself has already condemned giving worship to anyone but Him.

Now explain to me, what is so bad about dancing in the Presence of Christ if it is their custom to dance as a form of ritual and worship? Is it irrelevant? By what standard?

This form of relativism is one of the best tools Satan has. He’s unleashed it for the past forty years on the Church:

“Who are you to say this is irreverent? If it’s reverent for me, then it must be ok! All reverence, all beauty, is entirely subjective.”

It’s precisely this argument which is used to justify any sort of liturgical abuse. Priest wants to wear a cheese on his head? Hey, if it’s reverent for him! Liturgical dancers want to prance around the altar in tights? Why not?

In the end, it’s a matter of common sense. It can’t be taught. Either you recognize the objective standard of reverence during the liturgy or you don’t. Either you are able to distinguish the sacred from the vulgar, or you aren’t.

The Eucharist is the Body and Blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. His Soul, His Divinity, His Sacred Heart. His sacrificial offering to the Father for the sins of the living and the dead. It is Christ in His whole substance - God. If a person doesn’t fall on their knees in awe before It, choosing instead to dance around like a fool, they are either ignorant of this reality, or wilfully disrespectful of it. To suggest that any vulgar activity can ever be acceptable in Its presence is to propose a mockery of God.

and of course “If you disagree, you don’t know what inculturation is.”

Obviously, I wasn’t being serious.