Dangerous piety?

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Hmm… I’m a traditional Catholic in that I prefer the Traditional Latin Mass and try to go there whenever I can. However, if I can’t get to it I do go to the Novus Ordo as it is a valid Mass. To be honest some more liberal things might upset me but… I wouldn’t say that Catholics at NO are bad Catholics, or that the priests are bad, etc. However, there was a time when some things upset me deeply and I felt overwhelmed with problems in the Church I kept reading and hearing about… And sadly, when we are disturbed like that and lose our peace, we can become anxious. Our human anger and pride can also come out. I’m sure I have made many mistakes in how I acted over the years, and still do. But I’m saying this as a possible idea… Maybe she felt overwhelmed with some things but became too anxious. My priest (who is traditional too, and is a very charitable person) told me at one point that if reading stuff about the Church makes me anxious, to just concentrate on my own spiritual life. One of the best advice I ever received. I began to just concentrate on prayer and books that I liked about the Saints and devotions, and stopped obsessing over problems I saw. I can easily get judgemental of others and I need to remember there are good Catholics in every parish.

I don’t know if this would work, but I’d recommend instead of having these discussions with her, maybe you could just speak to her about good Catholic things. Our Lord, Sacred Heart devotion, Our Blessed Mother, Saints, prayer, etc, just anything positive and good… I don’t know if the conversation would work but I think traditional Catholics can get this way when they think too much about problems in the Church. Our human weaknesses of pride don’t help at all. Catholics in general can get like that towards people living a worldly life etc. It doesnt mean the piety is wrong but something else needs help. We need to keep interior peace and grow in charity and humility together with piety.

What concerns me is the comment about not wanting to help souls in sin. Many traditional books talk about caring for others salvation and charity so this is not an aspect of traditional Catholicism at all. I can’t say why she is speaking this way though. Maybe speaking to her about God’s Mercy could help, I don’t know, and maybe praying to her Guardian Angel before speaking to her could make the conversation more fruitful. Just an idea 🙂 I had good results with that.

God bless you
 
Here is a homily you may want to listen to and, if possible, recommend to your family member - Traditionalist Problems

Pray for your family member but also encourage her to pray. Ask her to join you in fasting for our Bishops, etc. to help her turn her criticism into action. It’s easy to point out the flaws in various Bishops, it’s not easy to pray and fast for them.

I wasn’t surprised to see that she is not attending Mass. This attitude seems to be fed by the internet and not by Latin Mass parishes. I’ve visited FSSP apostolates around the country and I know that if I were to detract against members of the magisterium, I would be corrected almost instantly. While I don’t recommend you encourage her refusal to attend the Novus Ordo, is there a Latin Mass parish in your diocese she could go to? That might help her see that she can be “traditional” and still love being a part of the Church.

Lastly, are you familiar with binding prayers? If you say “In the name of Jesus Christ I bind all spirits not of the Holy Spirit and send you to the foot of the cross to be judged by The Lord.” that’s a binding prayer and exorcists explain that it works on Christ’s authority, not based on your state of grace (or whoever is saying it). Quietly pray that a few times before you discuss anything with your family member, and if there’s a spiritual aspect of this it should help her to be open to what you say.

The worst red flags are any talk along the lines of “the novus ordo is invalid,” “we can’t be sure about the Popes since Pius XII” or things along those lines. These are both heresies.

God bless.
 
Just a thought–pray to St. Paul for her! He knows what it’s like to be super, self-righteously pious.
 
I had an uncle like this that committed suicide a few years back. years before he came back to the Catholic church, he was into 70s rock music, smoked pot regularly, attended many peace/ love hippy culture events, but when he started going to mass again, after awhile he sort of became obsessed with mass, the bible, etc.

He would stay up for days on end reading the bible and different catholic books, at one point, he told my dad, his brother, that God was personally talking to him here and there and even appearing to him. We could see he was loosing his mind, but he didnt see it this way, he truly thought everyone else was horrible sinners, and didnt want to be around anyone.

He did have pretty bad OCD all his life but in his earlier years, he took medicine for it and did ok, he graduated with a masters from college, but never really worked anymore, he preferred to be at mass or at home reading the bible. I think some people with OCD, religion can be a bad thing, they become obsessed with it and they even have delusions over it.
 
mikekle said:
I had an uncle like this that committed suicide a few years back. years before he came back to the Catholic church, he was into 70s rock music, smoked pot regularly, attended many peace/ love hippy culture events, but when he started going to mass again, after awhile he sort of became obsessed with mass, the bible, etc.

He would stay up for days on end reading the bible and different catholic books, at one point, he told my dad, his brother, that God was personally talking to him here and there and even appearing to him. We could see he was loosing his mind, but he didnt see it this way, he truly thought everyone else was horrible sinners, and didnt want to be around anyone.

He did have pretty bad OCD all his life but in his earlier years, he took medicine for it and did ok, he graduated with a masters from college, but never really worked anymore, he preferred to be at mass or at home reading the bible. I think some people with OCD, religion can be a bad thing, they become obsessed with it and they even have delusions over it.
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Religion itself is not bad. We all need ritual in our life. The difference between ordinary ritual that gives rhythm to daily life and OCD is that for a person with OCD, the ritual overtakes a person’s life. It interferes with daily living.

I went to a Jesus Day Conference in Chicago years ago. One of the statements made that has stuck with me throughout the years is that “you can become so full of the spirit that you lose sight of the Spirit.”

This happens sometimes with individuals who are new to the Catholic Charismatic Renewal. That is why there is such an emphasis on spiritual discernment and learning how to use the gifts received. In large conferences, prophecies and spiritual readings are submitted to individuals who have been part of the Renewal for at least 10 years and have a demonstrated gift of discernment to insure that what is being spoken is truly from God and not a personal interpretation. Prayer groups emphasize submitting to confirmation to discernment. That which does not conform to the magisterium of the Church is not from God. If there is a conflict between Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then it is not from God. Zeal is good, but our Faith does teach that reason confirms Faith.

What happened to your brother is sad. It is true that all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God.God’s mercy is greater than any of our sins. It is unfortunate that nobody was available to help you or your brother deal with the situation as it was occurring. Nor are you responsible. We can only deal with situations based on information we have at the time, and we are not responsible for the decision that another person makes.
 
Hello… I’m not sure, but I think I’ve stumbled upon something similar, possibly an online cult.
The Facebook group “How Pants on Women are Contrary to Modesty” claims to be Catholic and faithful to the teachings of the Magisterium , but it’s run by a young man with an apparently all-consuming interest in advising women about what is and is not modest - and he preaches that pants on women, even worn under a skirt, are a sin:
Here’s the link -
facebook.com/groups/356232514502101/

What do you think about it?
 
jfitzgerald said:
Hello… I’m not sure, but I think I’ve stumbled upon something similar, possibly an online cult.
The Facebook group “How Pants on Women are Contrary to Modesty” claims to be Catholic and faithful to the teachings of the Magisterium , but it’s run by a young man with an apparently all-consuming interest in advising women about what is and is not modest - and he preaches that pants on women, even worn under a skirt, are a sin:
Here’s the link -
facebook.com/groups/356232514502101/

What do you think about it?
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What do I think? I think he’s either a misogynistic egomaniacal sociopath who is thrilled to have a cult following of a bunch of women he can claim as his harem (but no harem pants on those concubines) or he’s mentally ill. Or likely a combination of both. The women that follow him are just as nuts as he is. He’s not Catholic and not faithful to the Magisterium…he’s simply found that the internet is the way to reach other wackadoos and feed his ego. I’m actually surprised Facebook hasn’t shut him down for hate speech yet.
 
kblorraine said:
I didn’t know where else to turn for some kind of guidance.

A family member of mine, someone I admire greatly and one of the few Catholics in my family, has been slipping deeper and deeper into a spirituality that feels very ‘wrong’ to me. On the outside she seems hyper pious. She wears head coverings, she honors Catholic traditions, she loves the Church… but when she talks to me she says things that disturb me deeply.

“Anyone who attends NO Mass is a bad Catholic.”

“There are no good Catholics in our entire diocese.”

“There are no good priests in our entire diocese.”

“This entire country is a cesspool of evil and sin.”

“Our Bishop is heretical and evil.”

It goes on and on. She despairs constantly about the sin in the world and often tries to lead me to join her by passive aggressively attacking how I live my life. Making comments like: “I’m so glad for my children. Without them I would be apathetic and be content with the NO Mass but because of them I am well on my way to sainthood.”

As I said, on the surface she appears very pious and Catholic but when you dig deeper I just get despair, oodles of pride and anger. So much anger.

In the past I have not confronted her about these ideas but recently I have tried fighting back. I’ve tried telling her about all the wonderful, faithful Catholics I’ve met in our local parishes but she scoffs and mocks and makes it VERY clear they are NOT faithful, how could they be… they attend the NO Mass.

I’ve tried combating the idea that our Bishop and priests are ALL corrupt by pointing out that it is NOT my place to judge them. GOD put them in their positions and it is my job only to pray for them… but she responds with more scoffing, more mocking and anger.

I’ve tried combating her anger with love and patience, by reminding her that all these ‘sinners’ are God’s children and we are to minister to them but she makes comments about letting them rot in their sin because they’re too lazy to pull themselves out and nothing short of a miracle can ever save them.

Recently, in a moment of despair, I spoke to another family member about her (yes, I know, sinful but I was just at such a loss) and this family member told me that she has long felt a deep oppression from her and avoids her because of it.

The lady I’m worried about has commented that she has no desire to bring ANYONE to Christ because they will be stuck in this evil Church that exists in Canada… and this upset me so much I just didn’t know what to say.

I have been praying for her but I’m so confused. How can this happen to someone who loves the Church, who studies the faith, who, on the surface, is so pious?

It makes me frightened to study the faith. it was studying the faith that brought her to this place she’s in now.

At this point she refuses to attend Mass as our only parishes are NO. I’ve tried reminding her that Christ is still present but she argues that her children’s souls are at risk and the liturgy is so bastardized at our local parishes that taking her children would risk their very souls.

How can I help her? CAN I help her? Are there any saints and/or novenas that might help?

I have gotten to the point where I can’t speak to her without being overcome with anxiety. Sometimes I cry for hours after speaking to her. The spirit that surrounds her is just so overwhelming, so sad, so despairing…

I want, desperately, to help. Please pray.

Thank you.
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She’s demonstrating a very human trait-issuing from pride. Generally, attempts at hyper- holiness regardless of their form: legalism, the excessive behavior often found in Pentecostalism, religious fanaticism, etc are wrong ways that we try to stand above and apart from the crowd. It doesn’t come from God or our faith-just the opposite, in fact. We all may struggle with it to one degree or another BTW. As with the Pharisees, the inside of the bowl hasn’t been cleaned up yet; we put on a show of external holiness to convince ourselves and others that we’re saints. Read 1 Cor 13 to get a true description of holiness, then compare that with your relative.
 
:rotfl:
ShrodingersCat said:
:rotfl:

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Agreed… But he has a lot of followers, and he is the administrator of quite a few Facebook groups and websites, all dedicated to the same thing - teaching women that pants and shorts are sinful, and that “real” Catholic women don’t wear them.
Doesn’t the Church have a rule about who can and cannot teach and preach, or against teaching people that things which the Magisterium does NOT condemn, are actually sinful?
Frankly, I’m wondering if this guy (his name is Dwayne) is some sort of creeper, who gets his jollies from telling women what they ought to wear.
Look at this exchange, from one of his other Facebook groups, “Marylike Dress; no pants, no shorts, no too-short hemlines”:

Cissy Rampino Dorothea, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I remember watching my mother get ready and I loved it. I would sit and try on her jewelry, walk in her high heels, (those spiked high heels from the old days)…try on her gloves and hats…I loved the days and I love being feminine. I think modesty is the most beautiful thing on a woman!

Dorothea Sturges Yes, modesty is the crown of womanhood…I loved dressing up in my mothers clothes, and my daughter did too, whenever she got her turn to stay overnight at her Grandmother’s house.

Dwayne Coleman Cissy, that’s the type of gal I wish more females were like.

Bob Flair There is something about modesty that enhances the beauty of any woman.

Dwayne Coleman You said it!

facebook.com/groups/327343864102982/permalink/429102403927127/
 
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