Dante's Inferno?

[RaiseMeUp]

Im curious as to what other Catholics view on Dante’s Inferno are. I saw an old interview with Father Pacwa and while discussing the papacy, he mentions Dante’s account for which some corrupt popes are actually in hell… I remember reading it a very long time ago but all i remember are that there are different levels of hell - but i dont remember explicit details…

 

[CrispSnowflake]

This is a cool ‘music video’ that sort of summarizes the book. I haven’t read the book, but it does give a little glimpse into it!
The Divine Comedy (“Rapture” by Blondie) - by Youtubers historyteachers
youtube.com/watch?v=DyRaCwgRKXk

 

[crumblymunky]

I think it is a very interesting idea, but it isn’t something we can say is true, of course. I think people like the idea because the punishments in Dante’s inferno often reflect the vices that landed the damned in Hell.

 

[PietroPaolo]

1. the Inferno is just the first part of a three part work covering Hell, Purgatory, and Heaven. Just reading the Inferno can be very misleading as Dante’s theology will be misunderstood if you only read part one as the themes encountered in Hell are developed in Purgatory and Heaven.
2. The Divine Comedy has been called “the Summa in verse.” Higher praise I cannot think of.

 

[RaiseMeUp]

So is this just a poem, or is it regarded as some kind of revelation and testimony that hell is infact a real place???

 

[PietroPaolo]

So is this just a poem, or is it regarded as some kind of revelation and testimony that hell is infact a real place???

Are the words of Christ not enough for you to establish it is actually a real place?

 

[crumblymunky]

I would say this is a classic work of Catholic literature, but isn’t more of a testimony to the existence of any of the three states than Dante’s own belief in them. I don’t know the story behind the writing. That could provide more information.

 

[bsroufek]

Well, there are other “direct” visions of Hell given to saints by Christ, rather than a theological development in Dante. St. Faustina and Don Bosco. I’m sure there are others, but even though St. Faustina and Don Bosco differ in their visions, the common element is that there are degrees of Hell and punishment.

The big question that I have is that, different from the descriptions of Hell from these two Saints, as well as Dante’s, the idea that, in the final Judgement, there will be a “Lake of Fire prepared for the Devil and his angels”. All the damned go to The Lake of Fire. “The smoke of their torment rises forever” (best quotation I can recall). So, are their punishments and torments beyond the fire? Or, is the fire the same for all the damned?

Is Hell now different from the Hell of Final Judgement?

 

[RaiseMeUp]

Are the words of Christ not enough for you to establish it is actually a real place?

Absolutely they are. And as a Catholic, of course Im aware that hell is a real place. I wasn’t questioning the existence of hell. In fact what I was inquiring about was whether or not it was a purely fiction fantasy poem, OR his testimony of revelation regarding to hell.

 

[PietroPaolo]

Absolutely they are. And as a Catholic, of course Im aware that hell is a real place. I wasn’t questioning the existence of hell. In fact what I was inquiring about was whether or not it was a purely fiction fantasy poem, OR his testimony of revelation regarding to hell.

I know of no one (including Dante scholars) now or in times past who actually thinks Dante traveled through the next world. A couple clues also suggest this. One, the poem is intentionally set in 1300 (Dante wrote it between 1308 and 1321). He set the poem in the past, so those he meets can “predict” the future. Two, in Paradiso Dante travels through the heavens (the solar system) which is ordered according to Ptolemaic Astronomy (aka the Earth is the center instead of the Sun). But, I wouldn’t say it is a “purely fiction fantasy poem” either. It is a presentation of Catholic doctrine through a fictionalized travel through Hell, Purgatory, and Heaven. So the theology is sound, but the travels are fiction.

 

[RaiseMeUp]

It is a presentation of Catholic doctrine through a fictionalized travel through Hell, Purgatory, and Heaven. So the theology is sound, but the travels are fiction.

Thank you. This is what I was trying to determine.

It says that satan is chained at the bottom with ice trying to break free. But isnt satan not bound to hell yet?

 

[PietroPaolo]

Thank you. This is what I was trying to determine.

It says that satan is chained at the bottom with ice trying to break free. But isnt satan not bound to hell yet?

Satan’s self imprisonment represents the state of all sinners, bound by their own sins in a prison of their own making. He also stands as the opposite of the Trinity, with his three disfigured faces and his complete impotency and total self involvement. Here we see Satan not as some kind of king enjoying a reign over the damned and enjoying punishing them, but as a captive to his own pride.

 

[Dorothy]

So is this just a poem, or is it regarded as some kind of revelation and testimony that hell is infact a real place???

The Church already teaches us that hell is real.

Dante’s work is a of literature. Many spiritual insights can be gotten from it.

It is in no way a definitive revelation of who is in hell.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

As others have said Dante’s Divine Comedy is not meant to be taken as a literal journey. It is fiction, but contains a lot of good theology not to mention good poetry. It definitely needs to be read in its entirety though, not just Inferno. To read Inferno alone would give a very warped idea of Dante’s message, and even of his character as a poet since the imagery starts vulgar in hell (like a demon who simultaneously sticks out his tongue and gives a very “low toot” as a signal to the others) and gets nobler as he ascends to heaven. In heaven itself the imagery is generally unimaginable, because heaven cannot be imagined by us on earth. It’s very creative.

It will help if you read a version with footnotes that will guide you through Dante’s references to historical and (to him) contemporary events, particularly the intrigues of Florence and Dante’s part in them leading to his exile.

Not all the theology is something we would approve of. Dante more or less considers the Pope simultaneously the Antichrist and the legitimate Vicar of Christ, which is a very strange position though understandable from his perspective as a Catholic who had suffered (he believed) great injustice at the hands of a Pope. Also he condemns St. Celestine V (who had not yet been canonized at the time) to torment on the edge of hell for the cowardice of resigning from the Papacy, an idea which may be jarring to Catholics today.

 

[PietroPaolo]

As others have said Dante’s Divine Comedy is not meant to be taken as a literal journey. It is fiction, but contains a lot of good theology not to mention good poetry. It definitely needs to be read in its entirety though, not just Inferno. To read Inferno alone would give a very warped idea of Dante’s message, and even of his character as a poet since the imagery starts vulgar in hell (like a demon who simultaneously sticks out his tongue and gives a very “low toot” as a signal to the others) and gets nobler as he ascends to heaven. In heaven itself the imagery is generally unimaginable, because heaven cannot be imagined by us on earth. It’s very creative.

It will help if you read a version with footnotes that will guide you through Dante’s references to historical and (to him) contemporary events, particularly the intrigues of Florence and Dante’s part in them leading to his exile.

Excellent point. I highly recommend Mark Musa’s translation.

Not all the theology is something we would approve of. Dante more or less considers the Pope simultaneously the Antichrist and the legitimate Vicar of Christ, which is a very strange position though understandable from his perspective as a Catholic who had suffered (he believed) great injustice at the hands of a Pope. Also he condemns St. Celestine V (who had not yet been canonized at the time) to torment on the edge of hell for the cowardice of resigning from the Papacy, an idea which may be jarring to Catholics today.

Two points:

1. Dante doesn’t consider the Pope qua Pope to be the Antichrist (i.e. he doesn’t consider all popes to be antichrist). I don’t think you mean that, but your sentence could be misconstrued to mean that. Further, Dante doesn’t really consider the Pope to be the Antichrist, he merely acknowledges that even popes can be sinners and yes condemned to Hell. We’ve had about 500 yrs of good popes, so that is much harder for us to imagine, but things were quite different in Dante’s day.
2. It is not entirely clear whether or not Dante is referring to Pope Celestine V and there is debate among Dante scholars over the identity of this figure in the Inferno. The passage is from the third canto of the Inferno:

When some of these I recognized, I saw
And knew the shade of him, who to base fear
Yielding, abjured his high estate.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

Excellent point. I highly recommend Mark Musa’s translation.

Two points:

1. Dante doesn’t consider the Pope qua Pope to be the Antichrist (i.e. he doesn’t consider all popes to be antichrist). I don’t think you mean that, but your sentence could be misconstrued to mean that. Further, Dante doesn’t really consider the Pope to be the Antichrist, he merely acknowledges that even popes can be sinners and yes condemned to Hell. We’ve had about 500 yrs of good popes, so that is much harder for us to imagine, but things were quite different in Dante’s day.
2. It is not entirely clear whether or not Dante is referring to Pope Celestine V and there is debate among Dante scholars over the identity of this figure in the Inferno. The passage is from the third canto of the Inferno:

When some of these I recognized, I saw
And knew the shade of him, who to base fear
Yielding, abjured his high estate.

I think you are right that Dante did not consider the Papacy inherently connected to the idea of the Antichrist. But he identified the corrupt Pope(s) of his time as the Antichrist (or the Beast of Revelation, or something along those lines. It’s been a while since I’ve read it and unfortunately I don’t have my copy with me to find the passage). In any case it did go way beyond simply placing certain individual Popes in hell.

The one I’ve read, by the way, is the translation by John Ciardi. It had extensive supplemental information too.

 

[PietroPaolo]

I think you are right that Dante did not consider the Papacy inherently connected to the idea of the Antichrist. But he identified the corrupt Pope(s) of his time as the Antichrist (or the Beast of Revelation, or something along those lines. It’s been a while since I’ve read it and unfortunately I don’t have my copy with me to find the passage). In any case it did go way beyond simply placing certain individual Popes in hell.

The one I’ve read, by the way, is the translation by John Ciardi. It had extensive supplemental information too.

Ciardi is good too. And we can’t forget the Longfellow translation, especially when illustrated by Dore! I’d recommend reading a few translations to get the taste for it. You know what they say, when you finish reading La Commedia you’re reading to start reading La Commerdia!

 

[PietroPaolo]

Anyone whose interested in a far, far too brief look at Dante’s masterpiece would do well to listen to this lecture from the Institute of Catholic Culture.