dark ages

[Loginus]

The only thing inferior I can see here is your grasp of history.

Care to discuss? Post away

As to the Q about what a Nihis is, its that little flap of skin between your and your pen…er maybe its better u looks it up

 

[Atreyu]

Sorry that it took so long to reply. I can’t get to the internet very often.

I will admit that I was ignorant. I had the dates of the dark ages wrong. I thought it included the whole period of the reformation.

I know that the Catholic church did not herself kill all of the people, but condoned it. Some of the “heresies” I was thinking of were the ever evil “saved by faith not works” doctrine .

The history of the Reformation is not such a one-sided affair. I mean, there were wars and murders all over the place: Catholics against Protestants, Protestants against other Protestants, even Catholics and Protestants against other Catholics and Protestants!

50 million to 100 million was an estimate that I read. I apologize if I got my numbers wrong.

Kandy, this number is patently wrong. It is so far out of the ballpark as to be ludicrous. I hope you do some of your own research to try and find out exactly how far off this number is.

I have never heard of the Jack Chick website.

But have you heard of Jack Chick? I encourage you to go and look at his website and have a look at some of the anti-Catholic literature he has, such as The Death Cookie. Then come back here and find out what the Church really teaches.

I know that a lot of SDA’s put a lot of weight on the 666 on the pope’s head (by adding the numbers).

Actually they use an invented title to arrive at this conclusion.

I also know that you can do that with many things, and it is not SDA doctrine that that is what marks the Pope as an antichrist. Also, we do not believe that the Catholic church is the antichrist. I would gladly give anyone more info on our beliefs in that area if they ask, but I’m not here to pick a fight, so I won’t get into it.

Thank you all very much for the kind replies and even the not so kind ones. Remember, you are all a reflection of the organization you are representing (i.e. the Catholic Church).

Indeed. We would do well to always remember this!

Thank you to those of you who stuck up for me when I couldn’t defend myself.

And thank you for being so forgiving.

God bless you and have a nice day.

God bless! And welcome to the forums

 

[Loginus]

The history of the Reformation is not such a one-sided affair. I mean, there were wars and murders all over the place: Catholics against Protestants, Protestants against other Protestants, even Catholics and Protestants against other Catholics and Protestants!

Kandy, this number is patently wrong. It is so far out of the ballpark as to be ludicrous. I hope you do some of your own research to try and find out exactly how far off this number is.

But have you heard of Jack Chick? I encourage you to go and look at his website and have a look at some of the anti-Catholic literature he has, such as The Death Cookie. Then come back here and find out what the Church really teaches.

Actually they use an invented title to arrive at this conclusion.



Indeed. We would do well to always remember this!

And thank you for being so forgiving.

God bless! And welcome to the forums

Hey whats wrong with Jack Chick?!

The man is a genious who else could find evidence for a massive plot involving the Catholic Church and its master Satan as they wove all conflict in history? I mean who else!
Only Jack with his superior uhh…‘intellect’ could see this nefarious plot by you dastardly Catholics!

 

[Atreyu]

Hey whats wrong with Jack Chick?!

The man is a genious who else could find evidence for a massive plot involving the Catholic Church and its master Satan as they wove all conflict in history? I mean who else!
Only Jack with his superior uhh…‘intellect’ could see this nefarious plot by you dastardly Catholics!

Hehe! Didn’t you know that he’s actually a Jesuit spy? See this thread for the undeniable proof!

 

[mercygate]

Hehe! Didn’t you know that he’s actually a Jesuit spy? See this thread for the undeniable proof!

You found that thread??? I nominate that thread for CAF top 10. Just don’t read it while you’re drinking coffee – if you value your keyboard, that is.

Kandy: thanks for the question. WARNING: don’t read that thread if you don’t like to laugh.

 

[Atreyu]

You found that thread??? I nominate that thread for CAF top 10. Just don’t read it while you’re drinking coffee – if you value your keyboard, that is.

Kandy: thanks for the question. WARNING: don’t read that thread if you don’t like to laugh.

Hehe! I just remembered that Severinus contributed a lot to that thread (the best parts), and he hasn’t been posting a whole lot since then, so I just searched for his name and ctrl+f - chick. Wasn’t too hard

 

[VociMike]

Hello. I was wondering, given the catholic churches doctrine of the infallibility of the Pope, what the Pope’s position is on the killing of 50,000,000 to 100,000,000 “heretics” who disagreed with the catholic theology, and of the banning of the Bible to all but the catholic clergy during the same period of time.

Thank you for responding. I am not trying to start a fight, just get answers.

Kandy

You accuse the Church of killing off the entire population of Europe (who were all heretics, I guess), and you say you’re not picking a fight? Do you understand the magnitude of the lie you have been told about 50-100 million “heretics” killed by the Church?

 

[VociMike]

mmmm the golden age for Christianity!

A great time indeed when herectics were killed, jews oppressed and women kept at home!

Damn this secular society forcing us to embrace those of religious difference w/o the greet of violence and making it unacceptable to say women are inferior

Someday us christians will rule the world again and have another golden age in the name of Christ

Just remember, some day 500 or 1000 years from now one of your kin will mock the early-21st-century “secular society” and all who brought it about just as roundly as you mock the past. Unless, of course, you think that we are now living in utopian perfection, with no further progress possible.

 

[alexaustralia]

Hello. I was wondering, given the catholic churches doctrine of the infallibility of the Pope, what the Pope’s position is on the killing of 50,000,000 to 100,000,000 “heretics” who disagreed with the catholic theology, and of the banning of the Bible to all but the catholic clergy during the same period of time.

Thank you for responding. I am not trying to start a fight, just get answers.

Kandy

I had no time to read all the posts but in order to provide depth to the discussion it would be good if you could indicate when and where these 50-10million people got executed. Then we can discuss the Catholic Church’s involvement as such.
By the way …welcome to the forum as a non-catholic deciding to post here…you are a brave person . Hope we can be of help.

Cheers

Alex

 

[PaulDupre]

I know that a lot of SDA’s put a lot of weight on the 666 on the pope’s head (by adding the numbers).

Oh Kandy,
The SDAs made that whole thing up. The SDA story goes something like this:

“The pope wears a tiara that has his title written across the front. That title is “The Vicar of the Son of God”. If you use Hebrew gematria to decode the title, the result is the number 666.”

The facts are this:

“The pope has many titles. “The Vicar of the Son of God” is not one of them. The closest real title of the pope is “The Vicar of Christ”. But that doesn’t add up to 666, so the SDAs changed it to “The Vicar of the Son of God”. It is true that the pope has a tiara, but there is nothing written on it.”

Kandy, I ask you again: If the SDA church has lied to you about this, then what else have they lied to you about? And why do they need to lie in order to hang on to their members? Doesn’t it make you feel bad that they lie to you?

God bless you,
Paul

 

[dosdog]

Oh Kandy,
The SDAs made that whole thing up. The SDA story goes something like this:

“The pope wears a tiara that has his title written across the front. That title is “The Vicar of the Son of God”. If you use Hebrew gematria to decode the title, the result is the number 666.”

The facts are this:

“The pope has many titles. “The Vicar of the Son of God” is not one of them. The closest real title of the pope is “The Vicar of Christ”. But that doesn’t add up to 666, so the SDAs changed it to “The Vicar of the Son of God”. It is true that the pope has a tiara, but there is nothing written on it.”

Kandy, I ask you again: If the SDA church has lied to you about this, then what else have they lied to you about? And why do they need to lie in order to hang on to their members? Doesn’t it make you feel bad that they lie to you?

God bless you,
Paul

1915
The numbers of the “beast” and the men who flub them
Our Sunday Visitor explaining that the 1915 remark regarding the alleged inscription on the pope’s mitre was an unintentional and unfortunate error that should not be used as “evidence” to support the Vicarius Filii Dei argument. A copy of this letter is being sent to the Seventh-Day Adventist headquarters, demanding that they stop using this episode as some sort of "proof
envoymagazine.com/backissues/2.5/goingthedistance.html

In his latest Endtimes Issues newsletter (#134,) Samuele Bacchiocchi, Adventist scholar, criticises the popular Adventist tradition (as he calls it) that claims that the pope’s tiara has the words “Vicarius Filii Dei” written on it, and that these words add up to 666.

Bacchiocchi says:

Another example of the blinding effect of tradition is the popular interpretation of the number of the beast “666” [Rev 13:18], as VICARIUS FILII DEI, a title allegedly used by the Pope on his Tiara-a claim that has been proven to be wrong.

In a recent Sabbath School Quarterly devoted to the Book of Revelation, Dr. Angel Rodriguez, Director of BRI, acknowledged that the traditional interpretation, though popular, lacks textual and historical support. Instead, he proposed the figurative interpretation of “666” as the symbol of incompletion, imperfection and rebellion. Concerned Adventists expressed their bitter disappointment with the new figurative interpretation of 666. They viewed it as a rejection of the traditional interpretation developed by our pioneers.

biblicalperspectives.com/endtimeissues/et_134.htm

 

[Loginus]

Just remember, some day 500 or 1000 years from now one of your kin will mock the early-21st-century “secular society” and all who brought it about just as roundly as you mock the past. Unless, of course, you think that we are now living in utopian perfection, with no further progress possible.

O, I know we live in a crappy era. But thankfully, its slightly less crappy than previous ones (at least in the society I live in)
Sadly, with the rise of religion globally, the destruction of environment, decreasing standards of living across the board and idiots running the most powerful gov’ts leave me with a little less than optimistic view for the future

 

[cestusdei]

You might consider the 20th century. Atheist movements killed more people then all religious wars combined. Nazism did 20 million, Communist 100 million dead. Many of those were religious people killed by those who agreed with you about religion. Islam is the first religion to go on a rampage in quite awhile. But they have a lot of catching up to do.

 

[callador]

ALL LIES! The KJV was the first and only inspired bible. Adam, Noah, Abraham, and Jesus all used it. Also, we all know that the Church executed at least 100,000,000,000 people. I didn’t add too many 0’s btw, 100 billion is the total. How did they do it. Well, they used a very large version of the Archimedes Death Ray. This death ray was called the ‘Death Star’, aptly named by the pope using his so called papal infallibility. (The pope is one of the Crab People btw.) So anyways, using the power of the KJV Bible, the pope opened a temproal vortex and blasted a death charge through it. The Death wave eneded up killing 100 billion people throughout the history of man kind. If you read Revelation 4:10 backwards, it mentions this attrocity that was hidden by the church.

(Sarcasm Off)

I agree with what you are all saying. Many misinterpret history. Now to leave you with a real story from Maranatha Bible College. When I was still a Lutheran I heard this. The Football coach was angry that some of his starting players were being benched, since they were not passing their foreign language requirement. The coach then said, “If English was good enough for Jesus, then it is good enough for me!”

We all need to be ever vigilant when searching for the truth. It goes both ways. I like learning more about Protestant religions, although I know a lot about Lutheranism. I find it helps to know both sides. It only makes our Catholic viewpoint that much more powerful.

 

[Sixtus]

SDA website that I saw while innocently visiting ‘catholic’ and ‘Vatican’ stated that ‘the Roman Catholic Church claims the pope IS God on earth’!

It further went on to claim that the pope said that if he was in error then he was still right because he is God and God cannot make a mistake’’!

I wish to go on record as saying THE POPE HAS NEVER CLAIMED TO BE GOD. That is a cruel and slanderous thing to say.

 

[bella5110]

SDA website that I saw [while innocently visiting ‘catholic’ and ‘Vatican’ stated that ‘the Roman Catholic Church claims the pope IS God on earth’!

It further went on to claim that the pope said that if he was in error then he was still right because he is God and God cannot make a mistake’’!

I wish to go on record as saying THE POPE HAS NEVER CLAIMED TO BE GOD. That is a cruel and slanderous thing to say.

I love my pope, I love my beautiful vatican with all its history. I love that he sits on the chair of St. Peter, imagine, 2,000 years of history. 265 popes later, unbroken link…thank you Jesus for this gift.
[/quote]

 

[PaulDupre]

SDA website that I saw [while innocently visiting ‘catholic’ and ‘Vatican’ stated that ‘the Roman Catholic Church claims the pope IS God on earth’!

It further went on to claim that the pope said that if he was in error then he was still right because he is God and God cannot make a mistake’’!

I wish to go on record as saying THE POPE HAS NEVER CLAIMED TO BE GOD. That is a cruel and slanderous thing to say.

Kandy,
Is that what your church teaches? Is that what you believe?
Paul
[/quote]

 

[corvidae]

Kandy,
Infallibility is a very refined doctrine, and is only applicable in certain situations. I would challenge you to find a single place where the Church taught as a whole, authoritatively, or the Pope taught as head of the Church authoritatively that killing heretics was a good thing, and that that must be believed in order to be Catholic.

Also look at it from a historical perspective. If there is the penalty of death for killing a man, what should the penalty be for harming a man’s soul? What if a man through his teaching caused another eternal death? That is the idea behind the now famous quote “Kill them all, God shall know His own.” Better to kill innocents than allow spiritual poison. At least that was the mindset at the time.

As far as the whole saved by Faith and not works thing, I think you will not find a single heresy until Martin Luther that held that proposition. You will find many more with things like, “The old testament God is actually Satan” Cathars, "Jesus Christ was not God"Arians, “The material world is evil, and we are angels trapped in human bodies”( very similar to the heaven’s gate cult that commited mass suicide when the Halle Bop comet came)Cathars, Bulgars and several others, "Jesus Christ only appeared to come down, and did not really die for us"certain sects of gnosticism, etc. These are major issues, and effect everything from what one believes is moral, to how someone views God.

A lone Raven

 

[Lion_of_Narnia]

I have never heard of the Jack Chick website.

Kandy

Perhaps it’s better that you haven’t. For me visiting the chick site www.chick.com (even for research) is like a Jew visiting the Aryan Nations site.

On the other hand, being knowledgable about Chick is forewarned: Here catholic.com/library/sr_chick_tracts_p1.asp

is an excellent start.

BTW, Chick believes SDA is a another anti-christian cult started and controlled by the Catholic Church–along with the Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Freemasonry, New Age, Communism, and Islam. There is no limit to the man’s credulity.

 

[Loginus]

Perhaps it’s better that you haven’t. For me visiting the chick site www.chick.com (even for research) is like a Jew visiting the Aryan Nations site.

On the other hand, being knowledgable about Chick is forewarned: Here catholic.com/library/sr_chick_tracts_p1.asp

is an excellent start.

BTW, Chick believes SDA is a another anti-christian cult started and controlled by the Catholic Church–along with the Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Freemasonry, New Age, Communism, and Islam. There is no limit to the man’s credulity.

That man has been the source for many a laughs for me and my friends. How I love his ‘creative’ truths