Dark Night of Sense

[beckycmarie]

I’ve seen quite a few threads for the Dark Night of the Soul, but I haven’t found a thread about the earlier, and more common Dark Night of Sense.

My understanding is the Dark Night of Soul happens to souls that are far advanced along the path of union with God, and that the night of sense is more common and is experienced in the earlier stages of one’s spiritual growth.

Anyone have some thoughts or advice on the night of sense for those of us in the beginning stages of a growing relationship with God?

 

[beckycmarie]

Some specific questions I have are

1. How do you know you’re experiencing the dark night of sense?
2. I know this varies by person, but generally, how soon after you experience conversion does this happen? How long does that “consolation honeymoon” last before the dark night of sense begins?
3. In your experience, how long did the night of sense last?
4. What should one do while in the night of sense if having trouble meditating? Continue trying to meditate?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

beckycmarie

you are correct in that there is a difference between the Dark Night of Soul, (which is the advanced stages of prayer) and the Dark Night of Sense, which most devote souls are in.

1. How do you know you’re experiencing the dark night of sense?

The Dark Night of sense has different levels, but the first is our detachment from the inordinate appetites that keep us from growing closer to God. For instance, putting personal pleasure before the responsibility of doing prayer. Or, attaching ourselves to some material object, over being charitable. Also the more advance in prayer that we get, we begin to detach from those objects of the spiritual nature, i.e. a Holy picture, that you love so much, that you would be unwilling to give it up, if it meant the good of a person who would benefit from it. Or desires to show others how spiritual you are, by wearing all sorts of religious symbols, so every one can see. It varies from person to person, but part of the process of purification, is getting to know yourself, and learning humility in the process.

1. I know this varies by person, but generally, how soon after you experience conversion does this happen? How long does that “consolation honeymoon” last before the dark night of sense begins?

It begins the day you turn your life over to Christ. The level will depend on your progress in prayer.

1. In your experience, how long did the night of sense last?

So far, about 33 years.

1. What should one do while in the night of sense if having trouble meditating? Continue trying to meditate?

Detach from the desire to expect something from prayer and meditation.

Whatever you receive during mediation, comes from God, according to His will. Regardless of how long you meditate or read sacred Scripture, whatever you receive will be on God’s terms, not yours. In loving faith, trust in his will for all things, including the graces that will be given out always to your benefit, because of God’s great love for you.

Also, one mistake we humans make, is that we see the Dark Night of Sense and the Dark Night of Soul, as stages that we have to get to, in order to be at some point in our prayer life, that we can grasp. Detach from this mentality.

You can be on the cusp of the Divine Union, and still have some part of you in the Dark Night of Sense.

Even St. Teresa of Avila, in the Interior Castle says, that we can move into a new mansion, but still have to return to lesser mansions.

In other words, there isn’t a line of progress that can be charted out on a graph, to show where a person is in their spiritual journey, toward union with Christ. We are too complex to be able to make such a traceable line of objectivity.

Jim

 

[beckycmarie]

Also, one mistake we humans make, is that we see the Dark Night of Sense and the Dark Night of Soul, as stages that we have to get to, in order to be at some point in our prayer life, that we can grasp. Detach from this mentality.

Oops, guilty.

Thanks for all of that information, Jim. It was very helpful.

 

[glenaitken]

Jim has pretty much expained this Night. The basic theme that a person will experiance is that the soul prefers the things of God over the things of the earth. It is a grace that is given, and so it can’t be p(name removed by moderator)ointed on a timeline that would suggest when a person should go through this. Most devout souls are in this. when the night is over, St. John of the cross says that the soul enters the Illuminative Way, which basically means that the person will have a more meditaive prayer life that focuses on holy reading and scripture and that sort of thing. When the first night is over, the soul’s sensual desires will have been made more temperate. the desire to know God increases (this, I think, is the true hallmark of the Illumative Way) and the desire to sin diminushes.
As for having trouble meditating- just keep going. find God where you can. He will speak to you at times more deeply in the scriptures, and at other times more deeply at mass- just follow his voice in all good things.
Hope this helps, Glen

 

[beckycmarie]

Thanks, Glen.

I’m glad Jim mentioned this wasn’t necessarily a linear process, otherwise I’d be pretty confused right about now since I notice signs of both the night of sense and the illuminative way.

I have the desire to know God, and the meditations are based on scripture or spiritual reading, but my mind wanders WAY off topic and I don’t notice that I’m getting any insights or learning anything in meditation.

I’ve heard that this dryness could be part of the night of sense, but then again I’m not noticing the fruits in my daily life like I used to, and I seem to be stuck on the same venial sins. It’s like I’ve stopped making any progress; and the venial sins are glaringly obvious. All this makes me think not only have I stalled, but I’m going backwards.

Perhaps I need to quit worrying about what stage I’m in and let God handle that on His time? I feel “stuck” right now and am not sure what to do, really.

 

[DBT]

1. What should one do while in the night of sense if having trouble meditating? Continue trying to meditate?

One thing I might add to the good comments thusfar is to really take a close look at St. John’s signs regarding our way of prayer during the night of sense.

The active night of sense pertains to the issue of detachment and the practice of virtue that has already been addressed. However, one of the principal flash points or cause of distress for souls at this time has to do with the passive night of sense . . . when God weans the soul off meditation and prepares it for contemplation. For these souls, the worst thing one can do is persist with meditation.

Inability to mediate or derive profit from it as before is one of St. John’s signs. Equally important is the strong desire to simply be alone with God in a silent, wordless, imageless way. For these souls, the best course of action is to resist the temptation to “do” something (meditation) in order to simply “be.” Or, as the saying goes, “I look at Him as He looks at me.”

If you find any of this relates to your circumstances, I’d recommend reading “Fire Within” by Fr. Dubay. He does a wonderful job of summarizing the teachings of St. John and St. Teresa and provides context for us to delve more deeply into their work.

Dave.

 

[beckycmarie]

I think I’ll get a copy of Fire Within. I’ve read Deep Conversion/Deep Prayer by the same author. What I really need is “Contemplation for Dummies.”

I don’t know that I have an inability to meditate, just a frustrating level of distraction and lack of ability to stay focused in prayer.

 

[DBT]

Perhaps I need to quit worrying about what stage I’m in and let God handle that on His time? I feel “stuck” right now and am not sure what to do, really.

It’s a matter of balance.

On the one hand, excessive introspection can be a kind of “worship of self” that snuffs out true prayer. One the other hand, St. John and St. Teresa were quite adamant that it’s important to have at least some understanding of these things. After all, as St. Teresa says, we wouldn’t take a trip without first getting a map to our destination.

Understanding stages and states are important to the degree that they help us understand how best to conduct ourselves at each point of the journey. And knowing what lies ahead, God willing, helps ease the pain and distress that comes when something “new” happens and we don’t know what to do.

Not knowing what to do is one of St. John’s meanings of the word “Dark.” Intellectual understanding through books can help shed “light.” But there is no substitute for experiential knowledge that can only be gained through prayer . . . assuming, of course, we learn to cooperate. So we need to learn that our prayer lives aren’t static and we need to be able to adapt to new conditions. Otherwise we will always find ourselves fighting or resisting the work God is trying to do in our souls. And this resistance we put up is a big part of the pain experienced in the nights, be it sense or spirit.

Dave.

 

[glenaitken]

Thanks, Glen.

I’m glad Jim mentioned this wasn’t necessarily a linear process, otherwise I’d be pretty confused right about now since I notice signs of both the night of sense and the illuminative way.

I have the desire to know God, and the meditations are based on scripture or spiritual reading, but my mind wanders WAY off topic and I don’t notice that I’m getting any insights or learning anything in meditation.

I’ve heard that this dryness could be part of the night of sense, but then again I’m not noticing the fruits in my daily life like I used to, and I seem to be stuck on the same venial sins. It’s like I’ve stopped making any progress; and the venial sins are glaringly obvious. All this makes me think not only have I stalled, but I’m going backwards.

Perhaps I need to quit worrying about what stage I’m in and let God handle that on His time? I feel “stuck” right now and am not sure what to do, really.

Don’t worry about dryness or any of that stuff- God is taking away the training wheels a little, but still holding the handlebars. This kind of a period will last for a while. it will come and go, just be faithful and enjoy the ride. Curb the venial sins as much as you can. remember that if God didn’t allow you to be aware of them that you would more than likely not feel the need for Him- and so this too is a grace. Continue to do good works and pray, God will reveal what he want’s you to know in time. Besides, all of these things serve to give you a self knowledge which is precious in the spiritual life because it fosters humility and fear of the lord. work on growing your virtues and weed out one venial sin at a time.

 

[DBT]

What I really need is “Contemplation for Dummies.”

Some of the best books I’ve found are the works by Fr. John Venard on each of St. John’s classics . . . Ascent/Dark Night, Spiritual Canticle and Living Flame. They’re out of print, though, so they might be a bit hard to find.

Here’s what Father does that I’ve found unique:

1. He presents a stanza from St. John’s poetry
2. Then he presents a brief synopsis of the commentary using St. John’s own words. The commentary is what often most confuses people so Father boils it down to just the key points.
3. Then Father “translates” St. John’s commentary into everyday language making it contemplation for dummies

Having said that, you can’t go wrong with “Fire Within.”

Dave