Dark Night of the Soul?

[Roza]

right now with the economic roller coaster our country is going through as well as the upcoming presidential election and high gas prices, i think many of us are having a dark night of the soul. sometimes, my dark nights last years.
i recently became a Catholic and i know sometimes if i am too tired or too distracted to pray the rosary, i will hold the rosary in my hand wheh i go to sleep. i might say a little prayer, but it does give me security. sometimes i look at the 1962 roman missal and read some of the instructions or prayers.
that gives me peace to just to thumb through the pages.​

I feel like I recently became Catholic, yet I sort of was raised in it. Only the extra junk was in it too growing up. The job hunt on and off for 3 years, just opened a letter saying I was denied some help so have to call on that Monday I guess, I just want a job. I don’t want to be let go when 6 months are up and it’s time to sign me up for benefits. I don’t want to do bill collections again. I don’t want another job that will be like the one I lost 3 yrs ago where we’re told if we don’t do better we’re going to get closed and even though we had the BEST SCORES we were still CLOSED! I don’t want those goofy lines being fed into my head. So much for the IRA.

I didn’t even make the interview yesterday, I got too frustrated trying to get past the security guard. Yeah, I have pepper spray on my key chain. Back when I was employed and none of the threats of getting closed yet… I had $200 in my hipsack and was going to go to a computer show. That was the last time I ever used one of those as a purse (over the shoulder). A man was following me a block away on a Sunday afternoon. I was listening to music on my headphones. Felt a tug on my shoulder, he broke the strap and started running off with my bag. I started running after him, a man about a block behind him started running after him. He saw I was chasing him from one end and the man was chasing him from the other end. He threw down my hipsack and said, “There it is. let me go!” and ran off. I probably should have called the Police that day, or maybe not… maybe the whole thing scared him enough to never try that again, I don’t know.

I’ve had people tell me that was a very gutsy thing for me to do and congratulate me, etc etc. Yeah, I got my bag back BUT, I realized how stupid it was too. What if he had a knife or a gun? I didn’t know when I was chasing him. It could have ended completely different. I do thank God it turned out as it did.

I long for a job I’ll be at for at least a year or two, do they still exist anywhere?

 

[ConservativeOne]

I could question myself however for the most part it’s life stress right now. Want to find a niche again. On and off job hunt for 3 years since an almost 10 yrs job closed and became a ‘dislocated worker’, new catch phrase for when they send your job overseas & to cheaper parts in the US.

Roza,
I’ve been in that “on/off job hunt” for many years particularly now after caregiving a parent. My income level right now is very bad with bills constantly coming in - it’s a fearful thing while trying to maintain a house. But while stress is a regular part of my life, I don’t think the lack of employment plays a part in my “dark night” or inability to pray. In my case, it’s often either laziness, exhaustion or other distractions that make it too easy not to pray. In reading “JReducation”'s reply, I don’t feel abandoned by God - I know He’s there - oh do I know He’s there~! I just think I’m lacking - but don’t have the prayer energy - for lack of a better term.
Mea culpa!

 

[Roza]

Maybe I’m not so clear on what exactly a dark night is. I do pray daily, when I ‘talk’ to myself in my thoughts it’s usually my talking to God. Trying to get in the habit of the rosary every day but don’t always make it. I shouldn’t feel out of place yet but I do and that’s weird. In my dumb anti days I think I was even saying things like how could anyone forget what a Catholic Mass is like after being to a few. Well, I’m still catching myself kneeling too long or not knowing exactly which and where the gestures go… I miss the old missalettes!

 

[honra]

Roza, your post touched my heart. I was in a similar job situation in the eighties and I feel for you. Try applying at local government offices - most of them have websites with job postings. Your background sounds like you are qualified to be an account clerk - there are tons of those positions in cities, counties and local water districts, etc. Usually good pay, good job stability and a great pension plan! I will pray for you on that.
In spiritual difficulties, sometimes reading lives of the saints helps.
They went through all these problems before us, and they will pray for us if we ask. And those of us who read your post are praying for you too. Be strong, help is on the way!

 

[anon52328184]

roza, i also had my purse stolen from me in the same manner several years ago!! it was superbowl sunday and i was going to the grocery store. it was packed. i noticed a man as i pulled up and something made me uneasy.

as i got out of my car, he began walking towards me. i am quite tall and he was short, but i still had a gut feeling that there was something that made me uneasy. anyhow, he passed me and then i heard a quick shuffling and he jerked the purse from behind me and the strap broke and off he ran. i was in shock and a man inside a clothing store had seen what happened and ran after him, but he got away with my purse. i have been a victime of 4 crimes,
luckily there was never a weapon involved!!! i hope i never confront anyone with a weapon.

it takes something out of you, though, because you don’t feel safe and you become very suspicious.

i live alone so sometimes at night i am afraid and i think that is why i have dark nights, because i feel unsafe.

 

[Roza]

I live alone too. Pretty much have since I left home at 19. Thought I had a fiance but that didn’t work out, should have known it never would. The main things that did us in were two, that I was so into the NAM for a time and that I later became an anti-Catholic. It was 2 yrs ago or a little over when he asked about Catholicism & the ‘apocryphal’ books but then he added Gospel of Thomas (I think?) and other ones that never were part of the cannon and I was saying ‘false religion, false text’ on my band wagon. Even if I hadn’t been like that considering that after 20 yrs and he still hadn’t made up his mind for us to talk about a date, I should’ve known it never was going to happen. uch:

We went to HS together and he’s really the only one I had still kept in touch with. Lost touch with everyone else. I know now I never should have stopped going to Mass but I had my excuses and kept using them.

 

[anon52328184]

well, many people have stayed away from church for many years.

myself, i stopped going to church when i was 18. i went twice at 28 and then i didn’t step inside a church until i was in my 40’s and it took me to the age of 56 to become catholic!!

so everyone’s religious journey is different. i am sure God is still speaking to you and trying to get you to return. you are not alone!

 

[DBT]

A few words and thoughts on the Dark Night from the Carmelite perspective . . .

The Dark Night is a contemplative experience and can only be understood in the context of contemplation. Exteriorly everything appears fine with such souls . . . for example, one can not tell someone is in the Dark Night just from their external behavior or condition. The suffering these souls endure is purely spiritual and interior. Mother Teresa is a wonderful example of this. No doubt it was a great shock to many Catholics the severe interior desolation she endured . . . when on the outside she simply radiated joy and love. This, in a nutshell, is the paradox of the Dark Night.

The night of sense is the inner trials that first brings the soul to contemplation . . . many, many souls go through this. The night of spirit is the final transformation of the mature contemplative that brings the soul to perfection here on earth. Relatively few souls go through this.

Briefly stated, this night of spirit is the pain and suffering of self-knowledge born from the light of contemplation that reveals the grandeur of God and our own weakness and littleness. We become accutely aware that opposites can’t coexist . . . and our former sense of our goodness and holiness now lies in shambles. We feel abandoned by God for revealing this to us.

Perhaps we should now let St. John of the Cross speak of this in his own words . . .
Living Flame of Love:

1. The soul is prepared for divine union by the work of the Holy Spirit, the flame – purifying and cleansing its evil habits and imperfections. The fire of love which is united to the soul in divine union is the fire which purifies and cleanses, just as the fire which penetrates a log of wood is the same which cleanses it of its impurities, preparing it to be transformed into fire. This causes great suffering both in the spirit and the senses. The flame, far from being sweet and gentle, causes only darkness and affliction, along with keen awareness of the soul’s innate weakness. Sometimes it experiences love, but with torment; sometimes it experiences consolation, only to be afflicted still further with bitter trials. The worst trial is that of increasing self-knowledge, a spiritual trial which can be unutterably painful.
2. The soul is afflicted with darkness in the intellect, great aridity in the will, and, in the memory, acute awareness of its misery as it becomes more delicately sensitive in self-knowledge. In the depths of its being, its sense is of abandonment. There is no consolation in anything, and it cannot even raise its heart to God, so oppressive is the purifying flame. God seems to be cruel and heartless.
3. The suffering at this time cannot be put into words; it seems to be little less than that of purgatory. This state is best described by Jeremiah in the Book of Lamentations 3.1-9. As Tobiah laid his heart on the coals so that every kind of evil spirit might be driven out, so the soul must submit to remedies and cures as prescribed by God to bring it health.
4. Just as the impurities and moisture in the log become apparent only when it is exposed to the fire, so the soul becomes aware of its impurity and imperfection only when assailed by the divine living flame, which afflicts and causes pain. When it is purified, it can recognize the action of God. At first its spiritual eye is darkened in the brightness of God. Light and darkness, being contraries, cannot coexist.
5. This divine flame is loving and tender, and as the soul becomes increasingly conscious of the gentleness and tenderness of God, it becomes deeply aware of its own hardness and aridity and of how sinful and disordered in its affections it really is. This awareness of its poverty, sinfulness, and misery is heightened by the sense of God’s goodness. But God continues to perfect and transform, so that poverty becomes wealth, and misery gives way to joy.
6. Few people experience this severe purgation, which varies in intensity according to the Lord’s desire to raise the soul to a higher degree of union with Him, and according to the soul’s impurity and imperfection. So the purifying pain resembles that of purgatory, where souls suffer in order to be purified for the vision of God. Through this passive purification of the spirit, we can be transformed in God in this life, through love.
7. As to the intensity of this purification, and its effect on intellect, memory, and will, and the substance of the soul, its various stages and how they are recognize – all this is treated in the Dark Night of the Soul (He is speaking of the book by this name). It suffices to recall here that God Himself purifies the soul, in order to transform it.

Hope this helps . . .
Dave

 

[DBT]

And maybe we should briefly describe what the Dark Night is not. It’s not the blues, it’s not the blah’s, it’s not depression, it’s not a bad day at the office or even many bad years at the office, it’s not the experience of scorn or rejection at the hand of others, it’s not worry and anxiety over the present state of things, it’s not the pain and suffering of the loss of a loved one, it’s not dryness in prayer (except for when the soul is being weaned from meditation to contemplation). No, it’s none of these things.

No doubt what was just described can leave the individual with a sense of inner desolation . . . maybe even profound. But the explanation for these things typically lies in the natural order . . . and are often the result of our own weaknesses, imperfections and sins. All of us experience these type of trials at some point or another. And we may even begin to see them in a spiritual light.

The “true” Dark Night, however, is entirely of the supernatural order. It’s inner suffering, trials and desolation not of our own making or of happenstance . . . but those given directly by the hand of God.

And how can one tell when the inner suffering is of natural or supernatural origen? In a word . . . contemplation. If the individual’s dominant mode of prayer is contemplation, then he or she will immediately recognize the types of things described by St. John in the last post and how vastly different these inner, infused sufferings are compared to the more external trials mentioned at the beginning of this post . . … those that people sometimes mistake for the Dark Night itself.

Hopefully this helps??

Dave

 

[anon52328184]

i guess the dark night of the soul can be whatever we want it to be then, it is up to the individual what his true dark night of the soul is. i don’t think we need someone to define what it is or what it is not.

 

[DBT]

i guess the dark night of the soul can be whatever we want it to be then, it is up to the individual what his true dark night of the soul is. i don’t think we need someone to define what it is or what it is not.

The definition is St. John of the Cross’ – Doctor of the Church

 

[anon52328184]

that is st. john’s interpretation then.

i would not be so arrogant as to tell someone what they were experiencing was NOT a dark night of the soul.

 

[Joysong]

Dave,

Thank you for your patient sharing of this difficult concept. As always, may it enlighten those of us who most need to understand the true meaning that underlies this wording. I was reading this morning from Osuna’s Third Spiritual Alphabet, Ch. 6, where he begins to speak about one single spiritual word called “recollection.” To my amazement, he composed several pages to give a full definition before he undertook any effort to expound upon it, realizing how important it is for us to understand the meaning of this word.

Carole

 

[InLight247]

Dave,

Thank you for your patient sharing of this difficult concept. As always, may it enlighten those of us who most need to understand the true meaning that underlies this wording. I was reading this morning from Osuna’s Third Spiritual Alphabet, Ch. 6, where he begins to speak about one single spiritual word called “recollection.” To my amazement, he composed several pages to give a full definition before he undertook any effort to expound upon it, realizing how important it is for us to understand the meaning of this word.

Carole

Carole, would you share some key points? Thanks.

 

[DBT]

that is st. john’s interpretation then.

i would not be so arrogant as to tell someone what they were experiencing was NOT a dark night of the soul.

Hello Deborahaz -

Sorry, didn’t mean to offend . . . and I certainly wasn’t meaning to be arrogant. Maybe it came off that way, though. My apologies.

Deborahaz, I’m a Secular Carmelite so it is my duty to accurately portray the teachings of the Carmelite Masters whenever I stumble into a conversation like this. That I did . . . to the best of my abilities, of course.

So I’ve said my piece and I’ll leave it at that.

Peace be with you,
Dave.

 

[Roza]

The “true” Dark Night, however, is entirely of the supernatural order. It’s inner suffering, trials and desolation not of our own making or of happenstance . . . but those given directly by the hand of God.

It’s been a weird 3 years since losing my almost 10 yrs job. Everything I had saved up is gone, now in debt, did start back into school, still job hunting. During that time went from verballing attacking everything Catholic to letting God walk me through all my misconceptions about it, I never should have stopped going to Mass, I know that much! Now, after almost 20 yrs gone I’m back. Still jobless but hunting. I’m in WNY so saw my the Church I returned in close but the other is still walking distance for me… just have to get used to it. My eyes aren’t totally perfect. Can’t believe I was gone almost 20 yrs, I mean, I loved JPII… but I am back and I thank God!

 

[Joysong]

InLight,

Thank you for asking about key points concerning Osuna’s “Recollection.” Actually, I have been considering a separate thread on this topic, as my interest has redoubled since going back again into his writing. It may not be a good idea to interrupt this thread, as there are apt to be some postings in response.

Let me have a little time to focus, and maybe we can begin.

Carole

 

[InLight247]

InLight,

Thank you for asking about key points concerning Osuna’s “Recollection.” Actually, I have been considering a separate thread on this topic, as my interest has redoubled since going back again into his writing. It may not be a good idea to interrupt this thread, as there are apt to be some postings in response.

Let me have a little time to focus, and maybe we can begin.

Carole

Looking forward to it.

 

[InLight247]

…I’m a Secular Carmelite so it is my duty to accurately portray the teachings of the Carmelite Masters whenever I stumble into a conversation like this.

Dave.

Thanks Dave.

It is to all our benefit to correctly understand what dark night is and what dark night is not.

 

[anon52328184]

Hello Deborahaz -

Sorry, didn’t mean to offend . . . and I certainly wasn’t meaning to be arrogant. Maybe it came off that way, though. My apologies.

Deborahaz, I’m a Secular Carmelite so it is my duty to accurately portray the teachings of the Carmelite Masters whenever I stumble into a conversation like this. That I did . . . to the best of my abilities, of course.

So I’ve said my piece and I’ll leave it at that.

Peace be with you,
Dave.

dave, apology accepted and i am sorry for being a little too hasty in my accusations. may i ask what is a secular carmelite? why would you want to be secular?
i think there can be varying degrees of dark nights of the soul. to start pointing fingers at someone and saying well, you really aren’t having a dark night of the soul, it is something else, doesn’t make sense to me. i think we need to be kinder and gentler. everyone’s circumstances in life are different.
sometimes things seem more hopeless in the middle of the night and you really search for God and pray. think of how many years that Mother Theresa was in India. don’t you think sometimes in the middle of the night she didn’t wonder why she was still seeing so much poverty and suffering in that country? i have so much admiration for her that she never abandoned her work there with the poorest of the poor and the sick and aged and abandoned. some nights she probably lie awake thinking of money and how she could make things better. i would never think of telling mother theresa that what she was calling a dark night of the soul was not on the dark night of the soul list, so snap out of it!! heavens, what is wrong with people.