Dark Night of the Soul?

[Montie_Claunch]

I remeber hearing someone make refrence to the “Dark Night of the Soul” (Or something similar) and also saw it on a book by St. John of the Cross (I think). What is the dark night of the soul? Thanks and God bless.

 

[Alberich]

I remeber hearing someone make refrence to the “Dark Night of the Soul” (Or something similar) and also saw it on a book by St. John of the Cross (I think). What is the dark night of the soul? Thanks and God bless.

Yikes! To adequately explain this, someone would have to right a book! (Wait, I think you mentioned St. John of the Cross…) To give the highlights, if possible:

Man is on a spiritual journey to know and love God. His prayer life is fruitful, he feels close to God. He may even feel that he knows why he is on this earth. And then it all dries up and goes away. God seems distant or altogether absent. The prayer life withers and seemingly bears no fruit. All seems in vain. But if he perseveres, if he continues in prayer, if he trusts in God despite his seemingly being abandoned, he will come out the other side stronger in faith then ever before.

Note, though, that many people have a week or month here and there in which they doubt their faith or feel that God has retreated from them. They may even feel that they are in the Dark Night then; odds are, they are not. The Dark Night refers to a rather “advanced” stage in spiritual development, and I think that St. John of the Cross would agree that it doesn’t really apply to everyday people who are going through a bad month…

My two cents.
Alberich

 

[puzzleannie]

we had quite a long discussion of this on spirituality a while back, it is before April so probably still there, did you search on it? some people like contemplative and others contributed very good stuff.

 

[John28]

Yikes! To adequately explain this, someone would have to right a book! (Wait, I think you mentioned St. John of the Cross…) To give the highlights, if possible:

Man is on a spiritual journey to know and love God. His prayer life is fruitful, he feels close to God. He may even feel that he knows why he is on this earth. And then it all dries up and goes away. God seems distant or altogether absent. The prayer life withers and seemingly bears no fruit. All seems in vain. But if he perseveres, if he continues in prayer, if he trusts in God despite his seemingly being abandoned, he will come out the other side stronger in faith then ever before.

Note, though, that many people have a week or month here and there in which they doubt their faith or feel that God has retreated from them. They may even feel that they are in the Dark Night then; odds are, they are not. The Dark Night refers to a rather “advanced” stage in spiritual development, and I think that St. John of the Cross would agree that it doesn’t really apply to everyday people who are going through a bad month…

My two cents.
Alberich

That was a really good explanation! According to her writings, Mother Theresa went through a dark night that lasted most of her life. Talk about living in faith, she never gave up.

 

[roadtosainthood]

Dear Alberich
I have read a book by Fr. Benedict Groeschel called " The Pscyhology of Sprituality"( At least I think that was the name of it).
It is heavy reading but worth it if you are a reader. He talks about the life stages and how spirituality is reflected in them.
He talks about the “dark night of the soul” and other stages by quoting St. Teresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross.
I recommend this book.
God Bless, Cheryl

 

[blessedstar]

The Dark Night of the Soul is part of the spiritual journey to the centre of the soul (the spiritual journey is not some lofty idea that transcends the stars, it is a journey of the soul into itself to be transformed to the likeness of Christ, by Christ, at the centre of the soul is that small place, smaller than a mustard seed that is the Kingdom of Heaven where God indwells the human soul). In this journey we travel towards to the indwelling of the Risen Lord and the Holy Trinity. This journey is as arduous as Calvary, but it is strewn with periods of dryness and periods of sweetness, the dryness a perceived withdrawal of God’s loving touches (though God never ceases to love us, He just allows a period where we strive without those touches) and the sweetnesses are those loving touches experienced. These experiences of dryness and sweetness are not God and the soul journies on towards Him because He beckons it and draws it and all of it is grace and His desire is to draw us to know and experience Him; even in this life to experience union with Him in a limited capacity.

We are God’s house, His living Temple:

‘When you pray go into your private room (the soul) and when you have closed the door (shut out wordly things and mentally turned to your Father) pray to your Father who dwells in that secret place’

It is not something we should worry about and if you do not have hours and hours available to you for you to spend reading volumes of writings on the Dark Night of the Soul you might like to try and get hold of a little book called ‘Finding the mystic within you’ written by Peggy Wilkinson O.C.D.S., it is published by Living Flame Press Box 74 Locust Valley, N.Y. 11560…
ISBN 0-914544-62-4. This book is a gem and all persons seeking the contemplative life should possess a copy. The book helpfully explains various stages using the writings of St Teresa and St John of the Cross as well as Sacred Scripture (though love should not worry about stages). I hope you are successful finding a copy and I hope you journey on to the centre of your soul where I am told such great and unimaginable riches lie that transform the soul for those who love, especially the Cross and are small and child-like enough to enter there to that tiny secret place because of the One Who dwells there in so small a place yet in all of His Glory. Though no human effort will cause the soul to enter this tiny place, but all of this journey is filled with God’s grace, I am told we need only follow that grace and not swerve from it, Christ Jesus.

In my prayers

 

[InLight247]

try and get hold of a little book called ‘Finding the mystic within you’ written by Peggy Wilkinson O.C.D.S., it is published by Living Flame Press Box 74 Locust Valley, N.Y. 11560…
ISBN 0-914544-62-4.

Thanks for the recommendation. I just ordered mine from Amazon.com for a used one, including shipping less than $7.00.

Contemplation is a mystry to me. I am reading “Fire Within” by Fr. Thoms Dubay. It is very intense, strong spirituality. I could not sleep well for the past two weeks and have to put it down for a little while. According to St. Teresa of Avila, contemplative prayer is an infused prayer, if God does not give it, we cannot have it.
And “perfect transformation is impossible without perfect purity”.(p. 136)
“God gives infused prayer…as soon as we are purified and prepared to receive His gift.” (p. 204)

And “…failing to reach the heights of prayer is our fault, not God’s.” (p.204). In other words, if I don’t get the contemplative prayer, it is because I am not good enough, not purified enough!!

Anyone has any experience to share?

 

[Jennifer_G]

I remember reading a large thread on here (?) about that - granted, it might’ve been lost in the forum crash.

 

[blessedstar]

Thanks for the recommendation. I just ordered mine from Amazon.com for a used one, including shipping less than $7.00.

Contemplation is a mystry to me. I am reading “Fire Within” by Fr. Thoms Dubay. It is very intense, strong spirituality. I could not sleep well for the past two weeks and have to put it down for a little while. According to St. Teresa of Avila, contemplative prayer is an infused prayer, if God does not give it, we cannot have it.
And “perfect transformation is impossible without perfect purity”.(p. 136)
“God gives infused prayer…as soon as we are purified and prepared to receive His gift.” (p. 204)

And “…failing to reach the heights of prayer is our fault, not God’s.” (p.204). In other words, if I don’t get the contemplative prayer, it is because I am not good enough, not purified enough!!

Anyone has any experience to share?

Contemplation is a mystery to everyone.

Here is a little excerpt from that little book you have ordered and I’m very glad you have been able to find a copy.

---

Page 168 referring to St John of the Cross, stanzas:

'Who can describe the understanding He gives to loving souls in whom He dwells? And who can express the experience He imparts to them? Who finally can explain the desires He gives them? Certainly, no-one can! Not even they who receive these communications. As a result these persons let something of their experiences overflow in figures and similies, and from the abundance of their spirit pour out secrets and mysteries rather than rational explanations (Spiritual Canticle, St John of the Cross).

These stanzas, then, were composed in a love flowing from abundant mystical understanding…For mystical wisdom, which comes through love and is the subject of these stanzas, need not be understood distinctly in order to cause love and affection in the soul, for it is given according to the mode of faith, through which we love God without understanding Him.’

---

In other words the effect of love is what God desires to work in our souls and it is enough that the soul know that it is God and of God and will most often not understand how God did this nor be able to describe it, but the soul does understand and the effects it has produced and transformed within the soul and understands it to be a great favour and grace from God.

Contemplation is a transforming of the soul into Love, Christ Jesus, it is where prayer becomes life and life becomes prayer (Pope John Paul II). It is a mystical journey that is understood but cannot be described but writers like St Teresa and St John of the Cross use images and have successfully used them to try and glimpse and explain some small part of wonder of this journey. The journey is understood by the soul, by the ‘change’ in the soul because of the indwelling God, but it is inexpressible, all descriptions fall short of describing it. A soul can only say an experience ‘is like’, it cannot say it is, for example, the soul may say that God made His Presence known powerfully and interiorly ‘like a thunderbolt’, but this cannot and does not describe God’s Presence, the soul can only express what it is ‘like’. Still the soul understands God’s Presence even though it cannot describe it.

In short, the soul understands and it understands things it could never comprehend nor figure out by itself, but cannot express and because it cannot express it’s understanding seems lacking, but the soul understands in mystery and mystically.

Every Christian, every soul is called to contemplation and though they may not be able to express their understandings, it is enough that God’s work produces the effects in the soul that He desires for all of His children and the soul ‘knows’ (experiences) God and as a result is recreated, is Divinised, is becoming another Christ in His likeness.

In my prayers and I hope you are sleeping much better.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

The “Dark Night” can be troubling, but it is a time of purification as a soul seeks perfection.

When the soul thinks it is safe, it ventures out of its “house” and seeks the love of God. It cannot do that, though, unless it trusts that its “house” is safe. The soul feels safe and able to allow access by God when the person reaches a certain interior stillness or quiet; this is one function of the “darkness” which the soul uses as a cover and its confidence to find its freedom and its love. A soul does not feel safe enough to venture out when its own house is filled with anxiety and confusion.

The Dark Night is, in general, a book that describes the path to spiritual perfection and some of the pitfalls that beginners and intermediates may fall into along the way. In general if we are on the spiritual journey we should seek to get ourselves into the Dark Night as quickly as possible because it opens ourselves for much power and healing. In my experiences with “Dark Night-ish” things they can be very subtle or very spectacular, or anywhere in between. The most important part I found was the “purgative contemplation” by which I think we are perfected much as in purgatory, but it is here on this earth.

When Jesus said, “be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect,” I don’t think He was giving us an impossible command. I think He was referring to the perfect state of peace and joy that accompanies being spiritually reborn and thus find oneself with an ever-renewing mind and heart that cannot help but spiral towards God with every daily experience, whether good or bad, giving testimony and either purifying trials or reassuring consolations or both.

Alan

 

[blessedstar]

And “…failing to reach the heights of prayer is our fault, not God’s.” (p.204). In other words, if I don’t get the contemplative prayer, it is because I am not good enough, not purified enough!!

Anyone has any experience to share?

Continued

None of us are good enough, we are all dust, we are all nothing, but it is God’s Love that transforms us and because He loves us so much beyond what we can imagine, He does this to us and for us so that we may always be with Him and He with us and He will do it for you; firstly you must believe He will do it for you (faith in God) then you must follow Him and His grace (love Him and love brother and sister and avoid sin, man must first love God before he can truly love his brother and sister because it is God’s love that causes true love for brother and sister which is an act of the will, a desire that is God given). Persevere and don’t be put off by set backs.

’So dear a son to Me, a child so favoured, that after each threat of Mine I must still remember him, still be deeply moved for him and let my tenderness yearn over him’

Simply, God is Love, I am told it is overwhelming to know. God loves us. To think we are all unworthy but it is He who makes us worthy; everything is grace and so we should thank God for everything pain, pleasure, joy and suffering.

’Lord I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed (transformed to Christ’s likeness)'

This gift of contemplation is there for everyone, contemplation is to know love and serve God and:

’Ask and you shall receive, (ask to know, love and serve God) seek and you shall find, (then seek Him in this internal journey in the soul where He will purify you) knock (and then after this He will invite you to knock at the door in the centre of your soul where Christ dwells) and the door shall be opened to you’

 

[InLight247]

Contemplation is a mystery to everyone.

…
Contemplation is a transforming of the soul into Love, Christ Jesus, it is where prayer becomes life and life becomes prayer (Pope John Paul II). It is a mystical journey that is understood but cannot be described but writers like St Teresa and St John of the Cross use images and have successfully used them to try and glimpse and explain some small part of wonder of this journey. The journey is understood by the soul, by the ‘change’ in the soul because of the indwelling God, but it is inexpressible, all descriptions fall short of describing it. A soul can only say an experience ‘is like’, it cannot say it is, for example, the soul may say that God made His Presence known powerfully and interiorly ‘like a thunderbolt’, but this cannot and does not describe God’s Presence, the soul can only express what it is ‘like’. Still the soul understands God’s Presence even though it cannot describe it.

In short, the soul understands and it understands things it could never comprehend nor figure out by itself, but cannot express and because it cannot express it’s understanding seems lacking, but the soul understands in mystery and mystically.

Every Christian, every soul is called to contemplation and though they may not be able to express their understandings, it is enough that God’s work produces the effects in the soul that He desires for all of His children and the soul ‘knows’ (experiences) God and as a result is recreated, is Divinised, is becoming another Christ in His likeness.

In my prayers and I hope you are sleeping much better.

Thank you so much for your posting. It is comforting and helpful.
Will talk more later. Currently at work.
God bless!

 

[InLight247]

Continued

None of us are good enough, we are all dust, we are all nothing, but it is God’s Love that transforms us and because He loves us so much beyond what we can imagine, He does this to us and for us so that we may always be with Him and He with us and He will do it for you; firstly you must believe He will do it for you (faith in God) then you must follow Him and His grace (love Him and love brother and sister and avoid sin, man must first love God before he can truly love his brother and sister because it is God’s love that causes true love for brother and sister which is an act of the will, a desire that is God given). Persevere and don’t be put off by set backs.
…

This gift of contemplation is there for everyone, contemplation is to know love and serve God and:

’Ask and you shall receive, (ask to know, love and serve God) seek and you shall find, (then seek Him in this internal journey in the soul where He will purify you) knock (and then after this He will invite you to knock at the door in the centre of your soul where Christ dwells) and the door shall be opened to you’

blessedstar:

Thanks for your insight.
Yes, all the readings I have explored also said the same thing, that God calls everyone to holiness and contemplation is for everyone.

According to St. Teresa of Avila’s “Interior Castle”, there are 7 Mansions. I can identify myself with many points(not all) up to the 4th Mansion, such as try to avoid venial sins, love to do penance, spend hours in recollection, practice charity, desire solitude with God, inner person is drawn to be occupied with Him, etc.

The 4th Mansion is “prayer of quiet” Does that mean that I am in the beginning of contemplation? Or am I in the beginning of preparation for contemplation? I do lot of daily vocal and mental prayers. I don’t think I am doing the contemplation iteself though I feel very close with God and could sense the leading of the Holy Spirit. Wondering if you have any experience to share.

God bless!

 

[blessedstar]

blessedstar:

Thanks for your insight.
Yes, all the readings I have explored also said the same thing, that God calls everyone to holiness and contemplation is for everyone.

According to St. Teresa of Avila’s “Interior Castle”, there are 7 Mansions. I can identify myself with many points(not all) up to the 4th Mansion, such as try to avoid venial sins, love to do penance, spend hours in recollection, practice charity, desire solitude with God, inner person is drawn to be occupied with Him, etc.

The 4th Mansion is “prayer of quiet” Does that mean that I am in the beginning of contemplation? Or am I in the beginning of preparation for contemplation? I do lot of daily vocal and mental prayers. I don’t think I am doing the contemplation iteself though I feel very close with God and could sense the leading of the Holy Spirit. Wondering if you have any experience to share.

God bless!

What you describe are all effects of contemplative prayer. Once the soul enters itself on this illuminative and purgative spiritual journey to, God willing, achieve by God’s grace union with Him (7th Mansion), it is already contemplating God in the earlier Mansions (Mansions 4, 5 and 6) as He infuses it with Himself. In the other Mansions (Mansions 1, 2 and 3) the soul practises ‘natural’ prayer which of course is a gift and a grace of God, but in the 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th Mansions it practises Supernatural Prayer.

St. Teresa states that the transition from the third to the fourth Mansion is the most difficult in this inward spiritual journey because here the self begins to die and in this ‘cracking’ image of the self the souls is awakened by God, it is a rebirth, it is a new way of ‘knowing’ of experiencing and understanding God.

The Lord has watched the soul approaching from far off as in the Parable of the Prodigal Son and now the soul is greatly purified God rushes out to meet the soul in the 4th Mansion. The closeness you experience is God’s taking of the soul by the hand and as St John of the Cross describes God leads the soul here like a ‘blind man’. In the 4th Mansion God infuses wisdom into the soul so that the ‘blind may see’ and the old ‘self’, the false self is stripped away.

Having said all of that Love does not worry about stages:

St Teresa writes:

‘In order to profit by this path and ascend to the dwelling places we desire, the important thing is not to think much but to love much; and so do that which best stirs you to love’

In loving we become Christ-like by His grace.

 

[InLight247]

…
Having said all of that Love does not worry about stages:

St Teresa writes:

‘In order to profit by this path and ascend to the dwelling places we desire, the important thing is not to think much but to love much; and so do that which best stirs you to love’

In loving we become Christ-like by His grace.

Thanks. That is a good quote. Thanks much for your help.
God bless!

 

[blessedstar]

Thanks. That is a good quote. Thanks much for your help.
God bless!

No, thank you, it has been lovely to discuss these hidden things of our hidden God with you. I’ll keep you constantly in my prayers that you (and also all people) will enter that prized and most beautiful tiny place where God dwells. I thank God for you.

Peace to you, the Peace of Christ in the depths of your soul.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

There are two dark nights, according to St. John of the Cross.
The first is the “Dark Night of Sense,” the second is the “Dark Night of the Soul.”

The question was asked about the dark night of the soul, so I’ll answer this part, as best I can.

The dark night of the soul, is where we begin to move closser to spiritual union with Christ, but it’s the darkest, because it’s the period where we are left in darkness, or dryness, in the spiritual sense. We no longer recieve consulations from God, but rather we seem abandoned, even though we know we are not.

We no longer have the desire to hear great sermons or read great spiritual works, in fact, we are unable to. All our longing is for Christ, and He alone.

When we pray, we feel like we’re not getting anything in return, but yet we still love to pray, because we know it’s the path towards the transforming grace that will bring us to the spiritual union with Christ.

i would suggest that you read the Ascent of Mt Carmel, by St. John of the Cross, to get an understanding of both dark nights.

In Christ
Jim

 

[InLight247]

No, thank you, it has been lovely to discuss these hidden things of our hidden God with you. I’ll keep you constantly in my prayers that you (and also all people) will enter that prized and most beautiful tiny place where God dwells. I thank God for you.

Peace to you, the Peace of Christ in the depths of your soul.

I am grateful for the help and support I got.

According to your (name removed by moderator)ut, I re-read the 7 Mansions, reviewed and recollected my prayer life, then started to see that since life and prayer are inseparatable, it is possible that I have been in the 4th Masion, the beginning of infused prayer without realizing it.
This knowing is important and encouraging to me.
Thanks. God bless!