Darkness In Creation

[WoundedIcon]

My question is an odd one. I’m a Goth, but I’ve become reluctant in it because I see in Christian culture that darker things are shunned. But I wonder, if there’s darkness in creation how does that reflect upon God and why do we ignore it? I mean, most of us have no problem connecting kittens with God, but what about volcanoes, hyenas, and maggots? God is light, but some of His creation is kind of freaky. It just confuses me because I want to be myself, but I feel like it’s wrong to be the way I am - and it doesn’t help that I’m sort of divided against myself because I like cute stuff and peace and social justice and nature (I’m looking to become a member of the SFO) but I still have this side of me that likes metal and stuff. Not saying I’m the morbid type, but when I think of God I think of love and purity alongside OT-style epic wrath and might. Not to mention I’ve had a very painful life and have grown to appreciate it as a gift from God, but my brethren seem to prefer comfort. And I have this whole conflict going on inside of me between more masculine spirituality and more feminine spirituality. The latter seems to be so much more common and acceptable. Maybe what I’m trying to say is I feel so different from the mainstream of Christian sentiment because I grew up unchurched, and I just don’t want to have to gut myself and turn all soft and sentimental. I’m a passionate and artsy type of young adult in a suburban middle aged world it seems.

I’m confused. :whacky:

EDIT: Not to mention I have no particular example of my style of spirituality to look up to, either living or among the saints - at least as far as I know. I have Jesus, of course, but while everyone makes him out as a softy it seems I read the gospels and see his good ol’ OT self showing through (giving the Pharisees tongue lashings in defense of those they oppress, the cleansing of the temple, etc.) I have a hard time harmonizing this all because the world seems to pit them against each other.

 

[GloriousOrder]

St. Vincent Ferrer is a Dominican saint who was very well known for preaching about Hell and damnation. He connected the darker abysses of the world with the chasms of Satan’s realm. The Pandaemonium Fortress, that bastion set up by the fallen angels, stands high above twisted rocks and vile, churning pits of infinite darkness. You really cannot compare St. Don Bosco’s vision of Hell with any sort of kitten-cuddling excesses. True Catholicism is about embracing the darkness in our souls so we know it perfectly, and then fighting it with all the light that God gives us. :yup:

Read legends of St. Michael the Archangel. Also, read the less-happy stories from the Franciscan “Little Flowers of Saint Francis”, about hell, trial, and damnation. Here’s a story from the early Dominican “Lives of the Brethren”, about the first generation of friars:

There was a scholar in Bologna of rather fastidious ways, concerning whom it was thrice revealed to a devout soul that if he were only rightly counselled he would give up the world. Accordingly, the brother to whom the vision was granted, went to the sub-prior, a countryman of the youth, and told him what he knew; the only reply he got was that it was next to impossible for a man of means who enjoyed his ease to give up the vicious habits of youth. As the brother, however, urged that nothing was impossible in God’s hands, the sub-prior on reflection thought that after all God might possibly bring it about, so he went to see the youth. But when on entering his rooms he noticed the costly furniture and hangings, his heart failed him, nor would he so much as broach the subject.

The student soon surmised that something was amiss, and suspecting that he meditated a homily on the vanities of the world, turned abruptly to his countryman and said: ‘I do not want to hear a word from you unless you promise not to mention God’s name in my presence.’ ‘Very well,’ said the brother, ‘we can talk about home and your parents, and in conclusion just say two words about God.’ ‘Agreed,’ said the scholar, ‘but mind you do not make it three.’ After the conversation had gone on gaily for some time, the sub-prior rose to take his leave. ‘Now, let us have these two words about God,’ said he. ‘Friend Recald, can you guess what sort of place is in store in the next world for those who do not penance in this?’ ‘No, I cannot,’ was the reply. ‘Then just hear how the prophet Isaias describes it: “Beneath thee shall the worm be strewn and the maggot shall be thy covering”,’ and with a few words of explanation the brother went home.

The thought of those worms and maggots took such hold of the scholar’s brain that for days he could think of nothing else. In vain did he strive to banish the thought by pleasure and gay society: on the contrary, they only sank deeper into his soul. Very soon after he came to crave admittance into the company of the brethren, choosing rather to lie on a hard bed for the rest of his days and then be carried to paradise by angels in death, than to enjoy his comfortable couch and be afterwards buried in hell, amid endless gnawings of worms and maggots, the very thought of which was so unbearable for only a few days upon earth.

Early Dominicans were hardcore.

Anyway, it’s true that the sensual influence of Ss. Augustine, Catherine of Siena, Teresa of Avila, John of the Cross, and others have had a huge impact on the West. In the East, images of glory and majesty are full of the masculine power of God. Either way, simply remember that God creates and sustains all things. If it rains on the just and the unjust, so will the maggots burrow under the skin of the rotting corpse. Read the Book of Proverbs, and some of the more sorrowful Psalms.

 

[WoundedIcon]

Oooofah… Bosco’s vision was incredible. I don’t think many people truly understand Hell. Honestly, I think many people don’t want their comfortable bubble violated by remorse, fear, and penance. I try to make it up to God somehow every time I commit a grave sin.

Sometimes suffering is just what the Great Physician ordered. God actually drew me through a years-long dark night of the soul in order to bring me into the Church. Try having your prayers unanswered for years! I just wish we had a bit more of that dark side left… the sacrifice of the Cross (well, that itself is kind of “br00tal”), the call to penance, the warnings of hell… I hate it when pastors preach comfort. “Jesus doesn’t want you to suffer, He’ll be your cure.” Well, let’s be honest, there’s Purgatory - which blows that ideal apart - there’s chastisements, temporal punishment, warnings through disasters… the Old Testament… etc. Some people can’t see how love can be so tough because this warm ideal has infected us westerners. I have no problem with warm fuzzies, but there’s a time for everything under the sun. One thing shouldn’t predominate. God is related to us as a Father for a reason, sometimes He makes us tough it out and/or spanks us LOL. Heck, Aquinas quotes someone as saying that being overly-patient is a hotbed of sin! Then we have the idea of unconditional forgiveness, which from what I heard isn’t actually Catholic… and the idea that anger is never righteous… ugh.

I feel like I’m going to be treated like a heathen for standing up for this side of things.

Also, victim souls. That is all.

 

[Garyjohn2]

It’s ok to be yourself. At the same time, don’t get too caught up in dichotomies…black or white…masculine or feminine…light or dark. These dichotomies exist, but not in any practical sense for every day life. People are so much more complicated than that. So is spirituality…so is God!

I like a quote from Lois Armstrong, “The bright blessed day, the dark sacred night.” Both are holy. Maggots are God’s creation, as disgusting as they may be, and they serve a purpose.

Jesus is often depicted as a namby-pamby, but he was not. He knew how to stick up for what was right, and even displayed righteous anger. At the same time, violence was not the way for him, or for us. So He does not fit into the dichotomy of soft feminine or harsh masculine. He was neither and He was both. He knew when gentleness was needed (let the children come to me) and when boldness was required (Get away from me, Satan!). We should try to do likewise! We are called to penance and sacrifice…these are very heavy concepts. They are serious, and it can be a difficult road to travel. It is anything but the light, easy-going, peace-be-with-everyone Christianity that some people describe.

I like the darkness too. I like the quiet, the peace. I like the coolness, the night. These are gifts from God. Sometimes I also like the brightness, and a warm summer day, and picnics. We shouldn’t put ourselves in boxes too much.

In the past, some symbols become so common they pervade our culture and our psyche. For example, God is light, Devil is darkness. Even Jesus used these metaphors, to help people understand. It is good to use these metaphors because they speak to people’s heart and are commonly understood! But that does not mean that all darkness is bad in reality.

Metaphorically, we should all walk in the light. We should be outright and open if we can, and do deeds that we don’t have to hide or cover in darkness. We should be a shining light, an example, to others. We should help enlighten those that don’t know and draw them (and ourselves!) out of the darkness of ignorance.

Practically speaking, it’s ok if you like to wear black and enjoy the nighttime. Music is a personal preference. Just make sure the light of Christ is in your heart, and you share that light with others, even in the dark.

Psalm 92
1 It is good to praise the LORD
and make music to your name, O Most High,
2 proclaiming your love in the morning
and your faithfulness at night,

Sorry, its kind of a long post…

 

[WoundedIcon]

It’s ok to be yourself. At the same time, don’t get too caught up in dichotomies…black or white…masculine or feminine…light or dark. These dichotomies exist, but not in any practical sense for every day life. People are so much more complicated than that. So is spirituality…so is God!

I like a quote from Lois Armstrong, “The bright blessed day, the dark sacred night.” Both are holy. Maggots are God’s creation, as disgusting as they may be, and they serve a purpose.

Jesus is often depicted as a namby-pamby, but he was not. He knew how to stick up for what was right, and even displayed righteous anger. At the same time, violence was not the way for him, or for us. So He does not fit into the dichotomy of soft feminine or harsh masculine. He was neither and He was both. He knew when gentleness was needed (let the children come to me) and when boldness was required (Get away from me, Satan!). We should try to do likewise! We are called to penance and sacrifice…these are very heavy concepts. They are serious, and it can be a difficult road to travel. It is anything but the light, easy-going, peace-be-with-everyone Christianity that some people describe.

I like the darkness too. I like the quiet, the peace. I like the coolness, the night. These are gifts from God. Sometimes I also like the brightness, and a warm summer day, and picnics. We shouldn’t put ourselves in boxes too much.

In the past, some symbols become so common they pervade our culture and our psyche. For example, God is light, Devil is darkness. Even Jesus used these metaphors, to help people understand. It is good to use these metaphors because they speak to people’s heart and are commonly understood! But that does not mean that all darkness is bad in reality.

Metaphorically, we should all walk in the light. We should be outright and open if we can, and do deeds that we don’t have to hide or cover in darkness. We should be a shining light, an example, to others. We should help enlighten those that don’t know and draw them (and ourselves!) out of the darkness of ignorance.

Practically speaking, it’s ok if you like to wear black and enjoy the nighttime. Music is a personal preference. Just make sure the light of Christ is in your heart, and you share that light with others, even in the dark.

Psalm 92
1 It is good to praise the LORD
and make music to your name, O Most High,
2 proclaiming your love in the morning
and your faithfulness at night,

Sorry, its kind of a long post…

And a good one. Thank you. I’ve been through hell and back for who I am and others’ attitudes managed to seep into me to the point where I question my bloody self every five seconds.