L
Loving_disciple
Guest
is there any writing from the Church fathers about darkness being good? what do you think can darkness be viewed as a positive thing in our faith?
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H
hazcompat
Guest
Through this dark purgation, the soul is being prepared marvelously for union. In this state “the soul must love God with all her strength and all her sensory and spiritual appetites.” It is a powerful enkindling of love since “God shackles all the strength, faculties, and appetites of the soul, spiritual and sensory alike, so that the energy and power of this whole harmonious composite may be employed in this love. Consequently, the soul arrives at the true fulfillment of the first commandment (Dt 6:5).1 When the soul becomes aware of the fire and wound of this love but remains in darkness and doubt, not getting any satisfaction from it, there awakens in her an urgent desire that makes her pine for God with all eagerness.” “In all her thoughts and in all her business and in all events, the soul loves in many ways and desires, and also suffers in her desire . . . at all times and in many places and finds rest in nothing.” “Everything becomes narrow for this soul. She cannot bear to be by herself and cannot find room for herself in heaven or on earth. She is filled with sorrows unto darkness . . . that is, she suffers without the comfort of certain hope for some light or spiritual good. Her anxiety and affliction grow steadily, on the one hand through the spiritual darkness in which she sees herself engulfed and on the other, through the love of God that inflames her. Nonetheless, in the midst of these afflictions she feels a certain interior strength that decreases as soon as the burden of darkness is lifted from her. This is because this strength of the soul that was bestowed on her passively to support her in the assault of darkness is now dissipated by the dark fire of love that assails her. So when the inflammation of love comes to an end, the darkness, strength and warmth of love also diminish.”2 The purgation of the soul by this loving, dark, spiritual fire corresponds to the purgation of the spirit in the next life by a dark material fire. In this way she attains to purity of heart, nothing other than divine grace and love. It is divine wisdom that purifies and illumines the soul in dark contemplation. It is the same wisdom that illumines the angels on matters of which they are ignorant. This wisdom descends from God through the first hierarchies unto the last and from these last finally passes over to humans. But humans must receive this loving contemplation “in a mode corresponding to their state, in a very limited and painful way. For God’s light, which illumines the angels by clarifying and giving them the sweetness of love—for they are pure spirits prepared for this inflow—illumines humans, as we said, by darkening them and giving them pain and anguish, since naturally they are impure and feeble. The communication affects them as sunlight affects a sick eye, irritating it and filling it with pain. This lasts until it spiritualizes and refines the soul and she becomes capable, as are all the angels, of receiving this (name removed by moderator)ouring of loving influence in tranquillity.”
Stein, Edith (2011-03-17). The Science of the Cross (The Collected Works of Edith Stein Vol. 6) (Kindle Locations 2393-2400). ICS Publications. Kindle Edition.
Stein, Edith (2011-03-17). The Science of the Cross (The Collected Works of Edith Stein Vol. 6) (Kindle Locations 2393-2400). ICS Publications. Kindle Edition.
D
Della
Guest
Also, St. John of the Cross who wrote “The Dark Night of the Soul.”
Indeed, we all go through some kind of darkness in our faith journey. Certainly Our Lord and Our Lady underwent darkness in their lives. Jesus through being rejected by his own people, undergoing temptation, and in his passion. Mary too, of course. We even list their sorrows for devotional meditation. So yes, we go through darkness, but as Psalm 23:4 says:
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil, for you are with me;
your rod and your staff comfort me.
God is with us even if we descend into the darkest parts of the earth or the farthest reaches of the universe–or the depths of human experience, be it physical, mental, emotional, and/or spiritual.
God doesn’t spare us from the darkness, indeed he doesn’t promise we’ll have no darkness in our lives, and even tells us that such experiences are good for us in that they help us unburden ourselves of all hindrances to fully trusting in him, and so causes us to grow in love and holiness.
Indeed, we all go through some kind of darkness in our faith journey. Certainly Our Lord and Our Lady underwent darkness in their lives. Jesus through being rejected by his own people, undergoing temptation, and in his passion. Mary too, of course. We even list their sorrows for devotional meditation. So yes, we go through darkness, but as Psalm 23:4 says:
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil, for you are with me;
your rod and your staff comfort me.
God is with us even if we descend into the darkest parts of the earth or the farthest reaches of the universe–or the depths of human experience, be it physical, mental, emotional, and/or spiritual.
God doesn’t spare us from the darkness, indeed he doesn’t promise we’ll have no darkness in our lives, and even tells us that such experiences are good for us in that they help us unburden ourselves of all hindrances to fully trusting in him, and so causes us to grow in love and holiness.
H
hazcompat
Guest
1 Corinthians 13: 12
Peace
Peace
O
office
Guest
It depends what you mean by darkness. There is St. John of the Cross’s dark night of the soul. Then there is the darkness of the Cloud of Unknowing. Then there is the darkness of the mystical theology of the pseudo Dionysius the Areopagite. Which kind of darkness do you mean?
J
JimR-OCDS
Guest
St John of the Cross used the analogy of darkness, being faith.
It’s like being in a dark room with a ladder.
As you climb up the ladder, you reach out to each rung in trusting God and faith becomes brighter.
Or, as the sun shinning through a dirty window. As you grow in faith, it’s akin to a window becoming clean and letting more sunlight in.
However, full union with God is akin to seeing a bright light in and room full of light. The light of the room is dark compared to the light of God.
Jim
It’s like being in a dark room with a ladder.
As you climb up the ladder, you reach out to each rung in trusting God and faith becomes brighter.
Or, as the sun shinning through a dirty window. As you grow in faith, it’s akin to a window becoming clean and letting more sunlight in.
However, full union with God is akin to seeing a bright light in and room full of light. The light of the room is dark compared to the light of God.
Jim
G
GEddie
Guest
Like the rabbis say, there are places where the sun always shines; we know them as deserts.
Or, in our human eyes, there is a colorful area, and a dark area, but it is in the dark area that the seeing takes place.
ICXC NIKA.
Or, in our human eyes, there is a colorful area, and a dark area, but it is in the dark area that the seeing takes place.
ICXC NIKA.
P
pianistclare
Guest
Beautifully stated.Like the rabbis say, there are places where the sun always shines; we know them as deserts.
Or, in our human eyes, there is a colorful area, and a dark area, but it is in the dark area that the seeing takes place.
ICXC NIKA.
M
Mystical_Seeker
Guest
There is a beautiful hymn based on St. John of the Cross, named Holy Darkness.
Dan Schutte Holy Darkness Lyrics
Refrain
Holy darkness, blessed night,
heaven’s answer hidden from our sight.
As we await you, O God of silence,
we embrace your holy night.
youtu.be/EAeCzCDb9NQ
Dan Schutte Holy Darkness Lyrics
Refrain
Holy darkness, blessed night,
heaven’s answer hidden from our sight.
As we await you, O God of silence,
we embrace your holy night.
- I have tried you in fires of affliction;
I have taught your soul to grieve.
In the barren soil of your loneliness,
there I will plant my seed. - I have taught you the price of compassion;
you have stood before the grave.
Though my love can seem
like a raging storm,
this is the love that saves. - Were you there
when I raised up the mountains?
Can you guide the morning star?
Does the hawk take flight
when you give command?
Why do you doubt my pow’r? - In your deepest hour of darkness
I will give you wealth untold.
When the silence stills your spirit,
will my riches fill your soul. - As the watchman waits for morning,
and the bride awaits her groom,
so we wait to hear your footsteps
as we rest beneath your moon.
youtu.be/EAeCzCDb9NQ
L
Legend
Guest
I once read that spiritual darkness, or the DarkNight of the Soul, is like the experience of Jonah, who, as most of you know, was a prophet, ordered by God, to preach to a group of people called the Ninevites, who were mostly ignorant, wicked people. Jonah wanted nothing to do with such a group of people; He certainly didn’t want to prepare them for heaven, which is a prophets job.
So, Jonah booked passage on a boat going in the other direction. A storm arose, so heavy that the sailors on board came to the conclusion that it HAD to have been sent by God; no other personage had the strength to raise such a storm!
It was also decided that someone on board had done something so wicked that God raised the storm, just to get rid of them. Jonah, knowing he had offended God, confessed to his shipmates, who responded by throwing him overboard.This is where this unique form of darkness begins; Jonah was swallowed by a giant fish. Can you imagine what it was like for him? He stayed in total darkness, yet his basic needs were met. He had plenty of time to repent. He had no companions, so he must have prayed, although these weren’t happy prayers. Yet, he must have had some form of gratitude, as God hadn’t let him drown, or allowed the fish to consume him.
After some time,the fish spat out Jonah. But where? Right on the banks of Nineveh! Remembering his original mission, yet still hating the Ninevites, he preached a sermon to the Ninevites. We aren’t told anything about the quality of the sermon. Yet, many repented! Thousands of souls were saved.
Jonah was still unhappy…how could God, who had made him preach, and successfully, to an evil group of people, after letting his prophet lie in the belly of a giant fish, never knowing if that day would be his last? (Of course, he omitted the fact that said prophet was in the act of disobdience)? After several unusual occurrences, we come to understand that it isn’t our will, but God’s that is important, and even if it takes a giant fish and a most unusual sea voyage, his will is done…the Ninevites did evil, yet God had mercy on them. When the preacher he had chosen to preach to them didn’t want to preach, he was brought there to preach;and many repented, even though Jonah didn’t WANT them to repent. God’s will is sovereign, and will always prevail, even if a trip overboard, a gulp by a giant fish, and a ride to who-knows-where in the belly of a fish, is what it takes
‘Jonah’ is a book of the Bible, in the Minor Prophets section. It appears in both Catholic and Protestant Bibles.
So, Jonah booked passage on a boat going in the other direction. A storm arose, so heavy that the sailors on board came to the conclusion that it HAD to have been sent by God; no other personage had the strength to raise such a storm!
It was also decided that someone on board had done something so wicked that God raised the storm, just to get rid of them. Jonah, knowing he had offended God, confessed to his shipmates, who responded by throwing him overboard.This is where this unique form of darkness begins; Jonah was swallowed by a giant fish. Can you imagine what it was like for him? He stayed in total darkness, yet his basic needs were met. He had plenty of time to repent. He had no companions, so he must have prayed, although these weren’t happy prayers. Yet, he must have had some form of gratitude, as God hadn’t let him drown, or allowed the fish to consume him.
After some time,the fish spat out Jonah. But where? Right on the banks of Nineveh! Remembering his original mission, yet still hating the Ninevites, he preached a sermon to the Ninevites. We aren’t told anything about the quality of the sermon. Yet, many repented! Thousands of souls were saved.
Jonah was still unhappy…how could God, who had made him preach, and successfully, to an evil group of people, after letting his prophet lie in the belly of a giant fish, never knowing if that day would be his last? (Of course, he omitted the fact that said prophet was in the act of disobdience)? After several unusual occurrences, we come to understand that it isn’t our will, but God’s that is important, and even if it takes a giant fish and a most unusual sea voyage, his will is done…the Ninevites did evil, yet God had mercy on them. When the preacher he had chosen to preach to them didn’t want to preach, he was brought there to preach;and many repented, even though Jonah didn’t WANT them to repent. God’s will is sovereign, and will always prevail, even if a trip overboard, a gulp by a giant fish, and a ride to who-knows-where in the belly of a fish, is what it takes
‘Jonah’ is a book of the Bible, in the Minor Prophets section. It appears in both Catholic and Protestant Bibles.
L
Loving_disciple
Guest
the darkness i was thinking about is kind of like a mother that protects you and lets you rest until you are ready to go back out into the light.
L
Legend
Guest
That’s interesting. It also can be a picture of a baby in it’s mothers womb,before birth. That must give a kind of care and love, that we can’t yet know. Yet, to the baby, it is also his first mystery. I don’t say ‘fear’, because God loves children, and protects them. But they must feel something…a kind of awe. After all, they’re alive, and have never lived before.the darkness i was thinking about is kind of like a mother that protects you and lets you rest until you are ready to go back out into the light.
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