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Chipper
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I will not ever respond to another post you make…!!
The end.
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The end.
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oriel16
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There is no doubt that the empircists have some justification in trying to displace denominational Christianity as nothing more than a ‘moral authority’ surrounded by superstition thereby making Christians a byword for stupidity.But that is only a modern consequence of the Church’s rejection of its scientific heritage in its quest to settle down as a ‘moral authority’ and a very Arian outlook.
I do give myself the luxuries you have in cutting through the empirical junk to discover my true Christian scientific heritage,as you walk away then so did and does the Church.Nobody is going to apologise for the vandalism visited on the great and enjoyable works of Copernicus and Steno even as this world celebrates Newton and Darwin and this is where I take my stand.
You can take the consolation that my descriptions of scientific matters may not reflect the clarity of the original Chrsitian scientific works therefore I can still say that unfamiliarity is the ‘cause’ for the acceptance of the empirical junk,however,that excuse can only last so long.
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Namesake
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buffalo
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Faith is not separate from reason. I do not find opposition between the two.
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oriel16
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Tell me,in what context did Kepler refine the thinking of Copernicus and how did he do it, ?.This is not evasion but if a space mission is going to take his name,the least we can do is meet on the same astronomical playing field in order to answer the question you posed.
What do you think of Kepler’s easy to understand correlation between the orbital period of a planet and its distance from the Sun -
“The proportion existing between the periodic times of any two planets is exactly the sesquiplicate proportion of the mean distances of the orbits, or as generally given,the squares of the periodic times are proportional to the cubes of the mean distances.” Kepler
Like the main argument of Copernicus for orbital motion,that inspiring correlation is just as easy to understand with the slightest bit of effort.So,tell everyone what Kepler was doing.
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oriel16
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Look,intuitive intelligence is knowing what ‘Time’ is without being able to say in words what it means,people simply know what time is and there are even Christians who are aware how the Eternal encompasses temporal existence by the same intuitive affirmation.
Intuitive intelligence lights up reason and gives it direction while reason cannot grasp intuitive intelligence ,to this end,Paul wrote -
"We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit that is from God, so that we may understand the things freely given us by God. And we speak about them not with words taught by human wisdom, but with words taught by the Spirit, describing spiritual realities in spiritual terms. Now the natural person does not accept what pertains to the Spirit of God, for to him it is foolishness, and he cannot understand it, because it is judged spiritually. The spiritual person, however, can judge everything but is not subject to judgment by anyone. For “who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to counsel him?” But we have the mind of Christ. "
usccb.org/nab/bible/1corinthians/1corinthians2.htm
The Arian/empirical approach to creation lacks that background faculty which affirms or rejects ideas and proposals based on physical considerations and if Christians sought out their true inspirational heritage they would truly have as many questions as they wished answered for them by that Spirit of God,not satiation of the surface intellect but rather an abiding love of Jesus and creation.
I am very much of the 21st century and very proud of the technological achievements and especially astro-imaging but all this is worthless without proper context insofar as we have now reached a stage where we are saturated with information yet cannot put it into a picture or these silly attempts in trying to cobble something together without the intuitive intelligence to discern whether it is junk or not.
I am also very much within the Christian tradition of my ancestors in these matters when it comes to acquiring the God given gift which lights up reason and is not separate to anything in our existence,least of all science -
That thou mayest have pleasure in everything
seek pleasure in nothing
That thou mayest know everything
seek to know nothing
That thou mayest possess all things
seek to possess nothing
That thou mayest be everything
seek to be nothing.
~St. John of the Cross
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Namesake
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Since I am what you call Arian, and an empiricist who doesn’t understand science, and given your method of argument, I can’t engage you in scientific debate or discussion. You make your own rules of science and I can’t understand them so I will always be dumb in your view.
I just was curious about what your opinion is of a space telescope that will search for other worlds like Earth. What might we learn from this mission?
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Namesake
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It’s hard for me to follow your run-on sentences, but would you say that Einstein didn’t understand time as well as you do because he didn’t use intuitive intelligence?
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oriel16
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That response is not good enough.With all these apologies flying around,who is going to apologise for the complete vandalism of Kepler’s work by the empircists.
Here is Kepler’s statement -
“The proportion existing between the periodic times of any two planets is exactly the sesquiplicate proportion of the mean distances of the orbits, or as generally given,the squares of the periodic times are proportional to the cubes of the mean distances.” Kepler
Here is Newton’s distortion of it -
“That the fixed stars being at rest, the periodic times of the five primary planets, and (whether of the sun about the earth, or) of the earth about the sun, are in the sesquiplicate proportion of their mean distances from the sun.” Newton
So,it may be fine to send a satellite into space honoring an astronomer while cutting his work to pieces.Kepler’s argument relies heavily on the main argument of Copernicus in making sense of the relationship between a planet’s orbital period and distance from the Sun.Do you wish to explain what Kepler did and how he did it ?.Few get the chance to enjoy their astronomical heritage in a world that seem intent in making up whatever story it needs to reach whatever conclusion is desired whereas I can just explain it in a normal way just as Kepler meant to have it understood.
The answer you are looking for is in my understanding of astronomy and unless you haven’t noticed,our bodies are designed around the cycles of the Earth so that,in fact,we are all astronomers by responding to the motions of the Earth.You just forget or ignore this.
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catholic1seeks
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Where are you reading your information?I am extremely confused about what I am reading from the Vatican. Please clarify this for me:
What exactly is the Catholic Church hoping to understand about this issue? Is it not clear that God created man from the dust of the earth and created the animals lower than man. How then can they believe in a possibility that apes evolved into humans?
I really must be missing something here. So many of my non-catholic friends are bombarding me with tons of questions that I have no clue how to answer. Are we not to take the Bible literally???
—I’m trying to look for the main source of info for the Vatican conference on evolution!
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Namesake
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That’s very interesting. Could you expand on the idea that our bodies are designed around the cycles of the Earth?
Could you also explain how NASA is cutting Kepler’s work to pieces?
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oriel16
Guest
On a list of 500 things,the nonsense of the early 20th century comes in at about 485 in importance but again, it has the same empirical roots back in the late 17th century with Newton.As nobody here understand the Equation of time correction which reduces the variations in the natural noon cycle to 24 hour clock noon and its application to clocks and longitudes ,they would have little chance understanding Newton’s expression of it as absolute/relative time -
“Absolute time, in astronomy, is distinguished from relative, by the equation or correlation of the vulgar time. For the natural days are truly unequal, though they are commonly considered as equal and used for a measure of time” Newton.
How many brilliant minds and their effort were wasted trying to understand what Newton was up to but did just did not have the astronomical familiarity to look further back to Flamsteed -
“This absolute time can be measured by comparison with no motion; it has therefore neither a practical nor a scientific value; and no one is justified in saying that he knows aught about it. It is an idle metaphysical conception.”
Mach, Analyse der Empfindungen, 6th ed.
Newton wove a tangled web and uncovering it takes a lot of effort but the joy is eventually finding genuine Chrsitian scientific insights.Christians are never required to get into the relativity junk,they only have to deal with the basic astronomical principles which Newton distorted and move on to productive investigations.
I have done enough to call attention to the major distortions and do not pride myself in knowing the other minor ones such as the ‘Man of the Century’ here.Both sides here can waste each other’s time trying to talk past each other or calling out from an empirical labyrinth but it ain’t science and it sure ain’t Christian thinking.
Let them suffer you for ignoring their heritage,a society which believes in time travel sure hasn’t time for comtemplatiom of the connection between temporal life and Eternal life where God and man meet.
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Namesake
Guest
So then, what do you make of Einstein’s ideas about time and relativity?
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Michael_Francis
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Since this thread has deteriorated in charity it is now closed.
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