Darwin's Dilemma - coming soon

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I haven’t asked for proof of Christianity. That would entail proving Jesus was God, which is a more difficult task. I’ve asked how one determines which is true revelation when presented with Vedas, Quran, and Bible. I think I’ll add Buddhist Sutras, too.

We should note their are numerous stories of Indian holy men travelling the country, attracting may people of all ages, and performing miracles.

Mohamed did pretty well with those crowds, too.
Either they were lying or they were “inspired” by demonic entities. I know you probably won’t like the second one, but it is what it is.

At the risk of sounding rude…
To give other faiths the same level of historicity as Judaism/Christianity truly shows your ignorance on this matter.
 
OK. When presented with Vedas, Quran, and Bible, how would Pilate’s method determine which is true revelation?
He didn’t. You missed the point.

He was caught up in all of the philosophies of the day.
 
(This is all quoted from random sources on the Internet I found a while back)

People will accept* Julius Caesar* existing, as an example, because he was a character in ancient Rome, who has little to say today, and so, as a result, is non-threatening. However, this carpenter from a tiny village in a remote part of the world, who led no army, who left no writing, who did not lead a nation, who was not in any position of power and who did not have the benefit of global communication as we do, still became the most commanding person on the face of the earth throughout history. I would challenge anyone to suggest any other person alive or dead who has had more influence on the history of humankind than Jesus of Nazareth. Perhaps those who believe in Caesar’s existence but not Jesus’s cannot accept the challenges that this humble carpenter still demands today - or shy away from the challenges by saying that he never really existed. How convenient - but what a cop-out.

According to archaeologist/scholar Sir William Mitchell Ramsay Luke is regarded as* “an historian of the first rank; not merely are his statements of fact trustworthy; he is possessed of the true historical sense; he fixes his mind on the idea and plan that rules in the evolution of history, and proportions the scale of his treatment to the importance of each incident. He seizes the important and critical events and shows their true nature at greater length, while he touches lightly or omits entirely as much that was valueless for his purpose. In short, this author should be placed along with the very greatest of historians” *

Jesus is historically documented. In fact, he is quite well documented for that time. Jesus Christ, without a shadow of a doubted, existed as most historians would agree. There are still people who deny his existence entirely while in the mindset that they don’t believe he is God. However, we know that he was definitely a man. The idea of Jesus being God is harder to grasp for some. Some people just don’t want to believe in a God for whatever reasons. Others don’t believe that Jesus is God because they feel that no man can be God. Others don’t believe because they don’t like biblical morals. Others don’t believe because they believe Jesus is simply the greatest liar in the history of mankind. Others don’t believe because they immediately take* any* supernatural subjects as false. There are many reasons why people don’t believe despite the authenticity of certain historical documents.
 
Either they were lying or they were “inspired” by demonic entities. I know you probably won’t like the second one, but it is what it is.
I suspect that your are wrong. Take an example from a Buddhist scripture:“Love others as you love yourself.” - Bhadramayakaravyakarana sutra 91
Now is that 1) a lie or 2) ‘inspired’ by a demonic entity? It does appear to be remarkably similar to “Love your neighbour as yourself.” Is that also a lie or ‘inspired’ by a demonic entity?

The Catholic Church agrees that non-Catholic religions may contain parts (though not all) of the truth. You should allow that parts of other religions are correct.The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men.

Nostra Aetate

rossum
 
I suspect that your are wrong. Take an example from a Buddhist scripture:“Love others as you love yourself.” - Bhadramayakaravyakarana sutra 91
Now is that 1) a lie or 2) ‘inspired’ by a demonic entity? It does appear to be remarkably similar to “Love your neighbour as yourself.” Is that also a lie or ‘inspired’ by a demonic entity?

The Catholic Church agrees that non-Catholic religions may contain parts (though not all) of the truth. You should allow that parts of other religions are correct.The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men.

Nostra Aetate

rossum
I don’t mean for you to misunderstand me.

What I am saying is that the claims of the supernatural, or of miracles, are either made up or are demonic entities fooling people away from the Truth.
(I personally do know that they exist because I have experienced them before.)

Which reminds me of a saying I heard once:“It only takes a drop of falsehood to poison a gallon of truth.”
 
However, this carpenter from a tiny village in a remote part of the world, who led no army, who left no writing, who did not lead a nation, who was not in any position of power and who did not have the benefit of global communication as we do, still became the most commanding person on the face of the earth throughout history.
Do you really want to go there? أشهد أن لا إله إلاَّ الله و أشهد أن محمدا رسول الله
 
According to archaeologist/scholar Sir William Mitchell Ramsay Luke is regarded as "an historian of the first rank; not merely are his statements of fact trustworthy
I’m always a bit nonplussed by statements like this. Alone amongst the gospellers, Luke at least claims to be writing history (by addressing Theophilus in chapter 1). But to regard him as amongst the elite historians of the classical world…???

He didn’t name his sources. He didn’t date anything. He drew most of his material from Mark without attributing it. And when he felt like changing something to suit his own theological agenda, he did so. Luke is at best an average historian, well below the standards we see from Josephus, Suetonius, Pliny etc.

With all due respect to Ramsey, he lived in an era before modern biblical criticism, so the outpouring of praise he gives to Luke seems (at best) quaint.
 
First, Christianity does not need proofs. It is one of the concepts of the God.

Second, if anyone is telling you “the truth”, he/she must already have the consents from the God.

Third, the stances of historians are neutral. They are telling you the truth that they know. It is limited to their knowledge.

Teru Wong​

Check out my academic portfolio by visiting the link as follow, sites.google.com/site/teru382/home
 
Either they were lying or they were “inspired” by demonic entities. I know you probably won’t like the second one, but it is what it is.

At the risk of sounding rude…
To give other faiths the same level of historicity as Judaism/Christianity truly shows your ignorance on this matter.
Inspired or lying? Are you referring to both Indian holy men and followers of Jesus mentioned in the bible? In either case, that’s a somewhat limited field. Could they have simply been wrong? Or might the authors who write of them have been lying, possessed by Beelzebub, or mistaken?

Can you tell us how the historicity of Judaism/Chistianity compares to the historicity of Hinduism and Buddhism? What does this historicity tell us about the value of their respective indices of true revelation?

So, back to basics. When presented with Vedas, Quran, Bible, and Sutras, how does one determine which is true revelation?
 
He didn’t. You missed the point.

He was caught up in all of the philosophies of the day.
Did you now Pilate? What philosophies did he embrace, and where does that information come from? Do we have information about Pilate and his quest for philosophical satisfaction?
 
I don’t mean for you to misunderstand me.

What I am saying is that the claims of the supernatural, or of miracles, are either made up or are demonic entities fooling people away from the Truth.
(I personally do know that they exist because I have experienced them before.)

Which reminds me of a saying I heard once:*“It only takes a drop* of falsehood to poison a gallon of truth.”
OK. So, how do we distinguish which claims are really supernatural or miracles, and which are made up or produced by Beelzebub? In fact, how do we dstinguish between natural and supernatural, given our vast ignorance of what we call the natural?

We are faced with four bodies of literature: Vedas, Quran, Bible, and Sutras. So, when we approach them how do we know which is true revelation?

I would expect anyone claiming any one of these is true revelation would have also done in depth study of the other three in the context of their historicity.
 
First, Christianity does not need proofs. It is one of the concepts of the God.

Second, if anyone is telling you “the truth”, he/she must already have the consents from the God.

Third, the stances of historians are neutral. They are telling you the truth that they know. It is limited to their knowledge.

Teru Wong​

Check out my academic portfolio by visiting the link as follow, sites.google.com/site/teru382/home
I don’t think we are asking for proof of Christianity. Thta would certainly entail proving Jesus was God.

The question is how one determines a body of literature is true revelation. Any ideas? Are the Vedas true revalation? Ever read them?
 
OK. When presented with Vedas, Quran, and Bible, how would Pilate’s method determine which is true revelation?
The Bible can be trusted because it calls itself the world of God. The Word of God is trustworthy, because it’s written in the Bible.
 
The Bible can be trusted because it calls itself the world of God. The Word of God is trustworthy, because it’s written in the Bible.
You really do need a 🙂 after that; Poe’s Law applies.

The opening to Sura 2 of the Qur’an is more succinct: “This book is not to be doubted.”

rossum
 
You really do need a 🙂 after that; Poe’s Law applies.

The opening to Sura 2 of the Qur’an is more succinct: “This book is not to be doubted.”

rossum
Concerning false teachers, Jesus said,* "you will know them by their fruits. A good tree doesn’t bear bad fruit, and a bad tree doesn’t bear good fruit "*

To quote the Byzantine emperor Manuel II Paleologusone:

*“ Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached ”
*
 
The Bible can be trusted because it calls itself the world of God. The Word of God is trustworthy, because it’s written in the Bible.
Please tell me you’re joking. Please.

If someone questions the credibility of A, you may offer B as evidence to support the credibility of A. If someone continues to be skeptical, and questions the credibility of B, you may not claim that A supports it, since B was meant to support A to begin with. In short, your above statement means that the Bible is reliable because of God and that God is probable because of the Bible. This assumes, from the start, that the Bible is reliable or that God is probable. By assuming either of these things, you’ve avoided the question.

For all the newbies out there (no offense), this is called circular reasoning. You’ll see it a lot.
 
I’m always a bit nonplussed by statements like this. Alone amongst the gospellers, Luke at least claims to be writing history (by addressing Theophilus in chapter 1). But to regard him as amongst the elite historians of the classical world…???

He didn’t name his sources. He didn’t date anything. He drew most of his material from Mark without attributing it. And when he felt like changing something to suit his own theological agenda, he did so. Luke is at best an average historian, well below the standards we see from Josephus, Suetonius, Pliny etc.

With all due respect to Ramsey, he lived in an era before modern biblical criticism, so the outpouring of praise he gives to Luke seems (at best) quaint.
Here is just one basic example of why your so-called " modern criticism" is flawed in its techniques.

In the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus talks about how the Temple will be destroyed.

This happened in the year AD 70.

Now, a “liberal” scholar (starting out with the assumption that there is no such thing as the supernatural, God, etc.), will read that and say, “Well, since we “know” that it is impossible for somebody to know future events, we can infer that this was written after the fact,after the year AD 70.”

I know that that was only a simple example, but that is pretty much how they dissect every book in the Bible.
Having read many of these ridiculous books, I saw nothing to their claims (even when I was an atheist). What I *did *see, however, was a bunch of arrogance.

And just so you know, not all scholars agree with their methods. Even within *their own *circles, liberal scholars disagree on their ideas.

As a matter of fact, it was because I was able to leave my “comfort zone” as an atheist and seriously consider what other scholars had to say that I saw the historicity in Christianity when I studied world religions.
 
Please tell me you’re joking. Please.

If someone questions the credibility of A, you may offer B as evidence to support the credibility of A. If someone continues to be skeptical, and questions the credibility of B, you may not claim that A supports it, since B was meant to support A to begin with. In short, your above statement means that the Bible is reliable because of God and that God is probable because of the Bible. This assumes, from the start, that the Bible is reliable or that God is probable. By assuming either of these things, you’ve avoided the question.

For all the newbies out there (no offense), this is called circular reasoning. You’ll see it a lot.
Yes, I think we all learned about circular reasoning in the first grade.
 
Yes, I think we all learned about circular reasoning in the first grade.
LOL, apparently not, given all of the religious arguments I’ve heard. Weren’t we encouraged to not make assumptions in first grade, too? You know, something about not proposing extraordinary explanations without extraordinary evidence? Eh, it all seems fuzzy. 😃
 
LOL, apparently not, given all of the religious arguments I’ve heard. Weren’t we encouraged to not make assumptions in first grade, too? You know, something about not proposing extraordinary explanations without extraordinary evidence? Eh, it all seems fuzzy. 😃
I believe we also learned about respect.
 
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