Dating a married and divorced catholic

  • Thread starter Thread starter pilchard
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
P

pilchard

Guest
A Catholic was married to a protestant in a protestant church. Not 100 % sure but my guess is that the required permission and promises (to bring the children up in the faith ect…) to marry in a non catholic church were niether sought or granted (not 100 % sure - but for the sake of argument let’s assume this to be the case)

The catholic subsequently had children (now gwon up) and divorced.

Question is - is it ok to court / date this person?
 
It is my understanding that it is improper to date/court unless the marriage is anulled, providing that it was valid to begin with. I would check on the validity of the marriage.
 
Could do with an answer to th is one…

Can a Catholic married in a protestant Church (without permission) and then divorced be dated. Does such a marriage need to be annulled first? CAN such a (non-catholic) marriage be annulled
 
It dosen’t sound like the marriage was valid in the first place. If that is the case, there is no problem with dating her.
 
40.png
Allen537:
It dosen’t sound like the marriage was valid in the first place. If that is the case, there is no problem with dating her.
Click to expand...
Best to be sure of the facts before you go ahead and date. If permission wasn’t granted to marry in a Protestant Church then the marriage won’t be valid but you still have to get the previous “marriage” checked out by the tribunal before remarrying. I think it’s a simpler and less time consuming process than an anullment. But make sure there was no permission given and that the person was baptized Catholic before the marriage, now before you get involved, then you will save heartache down the road. It’s an awful position to be in being married outside the Church, you are torn in two. Don’t go there.
 
40.png
Allen537:
It dosen’t sound like the marriage was valid in the first place. If that is the case, there is no problem with dating her.
Click to expand...
Sorry but I think this is bad advice.

The Church always errs on the side of the Sacrament. So until an annullment is granted, the Church views this marriage as vaild.
 
40.png
ByzCath:
Sorry but I think this is bad advice.

The Church always errs on the side of the Sacrament. So until an annullment is granted, the Church views this marriage as vaild.
Click to expand...
Unless a dispensation was granted by the Bishop, I don’t see how this marriage could be in any way valid. With out a dispensation, this woman is not in communion with the church because she would be living in a sinful relationship…
 
40.png
Allen537:
Unless a dispensation was granted by the Bishop, I don’t see how this marriage could be in any way valid. With out a dispensation, this woman is not in communion with the church because she would be living in a sinful relationship…
Click to expand...
That is not for us to determine. The Church is the only one that can rule on the state of a marriage.
 
I’m with Byz on this one. As Catholics, we err on the side of a marriage being valid until a tribunal (the Church in these matters) rules otherwise. Even if we’re certain that it couldn’t be valid, we do not do anything that would be inappropriate if it were a valid marriage. This would include “courting” a person who had been in such a marriage.

You can befriend her, and ask about the circumstances of the previous marriage. If you find that there has been no anullment, you can indicate that it’s too bad that she’s not in a position to date.

But you postpone dating or otherwise pursuing a relationship until you know the coast is clear.

CARose
 
Thanks…

“Fancy catching a film” is a typical openning gambit. “Fancy getting an annullment” mmhh - that could be interesting

Only kidding… Thanks again

The marriage seems to have been invalid but only the Church can make the call.

Perhaps Catholic parents and relatives of people in this poition should - at the time the marriage ends in divorce - advise the person to seek an anullment as well - should perhaps make the delicate suggestion that sad as the divorce is - if it is going to happen why not seek reconciliation with the Church

God Bless

P
 
40.png
pilchard:
Perhaps Catholic parents and relatives of people in this poition should - at the time the marriage ends in divorce - advise the person to seek an anullment as well - should perhaps make the delicate suggestion that sad as the divorce is - if it is going to happen why not seek reconciliation with the Church
Click to expand...
Actually I would go one step further. If the person is a Catholic I would say that their Catholic friends and family should advise the person to follow the forms of the Church and marry inside the Church because if they do not, they are guilty of multiple sins.

Disobedience to the Church and fornication with their “spouse” as they are not really married. They should not even present themselves for communion.
 
It really is a shame how many Catholics don’t understand the importance of marrying in the Church. The deprive themselves of the graces associated with the Sacrament of Matrimony. I wonder how many divorces wouldn’t have had to be if the couple had simply followed God’s design for marriage in terms of marrying in the Church and then using NFP.

CARose
 
We deal it every day when we see parents of children, come to the church to have their children baptized. It is rare to have a couple that is validly married int he Catholic church. Less than 10% is married in our experience in the church. If they are married at all, usually it is civil…but more often cohabitating with no intentions of ever marrying.
We struggle as a couple to decide if this baptism should be delayed until very thorough catechesis is performed, and the parents realize that when they take a vow before God in baptism to raise their children Catholic, that includes most specifically not just bringing them to a Catholic school for religious education, it means setting a proper Christian example of living our faith. So the best gift you can give your children is the gift of your faith, and your active participation inthe life and community of the church by following the sacraments completely. I can safely say, that my spouse and I rarely see the children in church with their parents after they are baptized. Their promises, their oath is empty. That is very sad. Our work at evangelizing the baptized unbelievers is a constant struggle. We can’t water down the absolute truth though. So we pray constantly for God’s wisdom
 
StBruno,

I firmly believe that your prayers are not in vain. I was exactly one of those families when I came to have my daughter baptised. I even failed to return to church until it was time to begin my daughters catechesis. But at that point I determined that it was time for me to decide as an adult if it was appropriate for me to expose my daughter to the teachings of a church I barely knew. The best way I could think of to determine this was through educating myself on just what the Church taught.

Someone must have been praying for me, because the Holy Spirit moved in my heart when I opened up, just the smallest crack in my stony heart, and I now love and strive to serve our Lord. Leave the timing to God, somehow, He always seems to know best. But keep up the prayers. We need them. I’m thankful to whomever it was that prayed for me. It seems to have worked.

Thank God for miracles, large and small,

CARose
 
40.png
ByzCath:
That is not for us to determine. The Church is the only one that can rule on the state of a marriage.
Click to expand...
*If a Catholic marries outside the Catholic Church the marriage is not considered to be valid. This means that every time one has sexual relations he or she is doing so with someone outside of marriage which is a mortal sin. As a result he or she cannot receive Holy Communion. *

However, if a Catholic in such a situation lives as a celibate until the marriage is blessed (convalidated), then he or she may go to Confession and receive Holy Communion.

Nothing is worth living in mortal sin—nothing! It all boils down to how much one appreciates the love expressed on that cross on Good Friday. To live in mortal sin is to laugh at His outstretched arms.

Fr. Vincent Serpa, O.P.
 
40.png
Allen537:
… Nothing is worth living in mortal sin—nothing! It all boils down to how much one appreciates the love expressed on that cross on Good Friday. To live in mortal sin is to laugh at His outstretched arms…
Click to expand...
Yup!

CARose
 
Allen537 said:
*If a Catholic marries outside the Catholic Church the marriage is not considered to be valid. This means that every time one has sexual relations he or she is doing so with someone outside of marriage which is a mortal sin. As a result he or she cannot receive Holy Communion. *

However, if a Catholic in such a situation lives as a celibate until the marriage is blessed (convalidated), then he or she may go to Confession and receive Holy Communion.

Nothing is worth living in mortal sin—nothing! It all boils down to how much one appreciates the love expressed on that cross on Good Friday. To live in mortal sin is to laugh at His outstretched arms.

Fr. Vincent Serpa, O.P.
Click to expand...

This is true.

But it is the Church that determines this, not us.

After all, a person might be mistaken.

Why risk it? Why risk commiting mortal sin? Is it smart to play russian roulette with your immortal soul?

If you wish to work in a legalistic mode, then go for it. I for one would want to be 100% positive.

And one last thing. Fr Vincent is a great Holy priest and a good apologist, but he is not an authority in these matters. Only the bishop of the diocese where one lives is. He, the bishop, exercises this authority though the Tribunal that hears the annullment cases. They are the only ones that can give a definitive answer in these cases.
 
40.png
ByzCath:
This is true.

But it is the Church that determines this, not us.

After all, a person might be mistaken.

Why risk it? Why risk commiting mortal sin? Is it smart to play russian roulette with your immortal soul?

If you wish to work in a legalistic mode, then go for it. I for one would want to be 100% positive.
Click to expand...
Cannon Law is Cannon Law. Why would you need a bishop and a panel of priests and theologians to tell you that the marriage was invalid? All they are going to do is cite the Catechism and the Code of Cannon Law. The church has laws regarding things like this. The laws that the church makes are bound and upheld in heaven. We know that without permission catholics can’t marry outside the church. I’m not sure what risk you would be taking? It seems to me that this is a pretty open and shut case.
 
40.png
Allen537:
Cannon Law is Cannon Law. Why would you need a bishop and a panel of priests and theologians to tell you that the marriage was invalid? All they are going to do is cite the Catechism and the Code of Cannon Law. The church has laws regarding things like this. The laws that the church makes are bound and upheld in heaven. We know that without permission catholics can’t marry outside the church. I’m not sure what risk you would be taking? It seems to me that this is a pretty open and shut case.
Click to expand...
You list yourself as a seminarian and you ask this?

We are not the authority. We can not rule on Canon Law. Only the appropriate authority can rule. We can form opinions on it though.

I, for one, will not risk my immortal soul on a mere opinion though.

I do not understand why you are having such a hard time with this one though.

I will add one last thing. This person is relying on the word of the individual who got a divorce. For one thing, I would be very wary before getting involved with anyone who has gotten a divorce, annullment or not.

Someone who has gotten married is considered to be in a valid marriage until ruled otherwise. It would be unwise to get involved with such an individual. The person would have to get an annullment before they could get married in the Catholic Church, regardless of what you think of the state of their previous marriage. Now what if the OP did get involved with this person and started to plan a wedding and the person went for an annullement and was turned down?
 
Thanks CARose. We( my spouse and I) do baptism and marriage prep for two parishes and at times it is so frustrating not to see any fruit from our efforts. You response is what I needed to hear today. As baptized Christians, we need to understand that the harvest is plenty but the workers are few…so I hope now you are mentoring someone by your witnessing. Keep the faith, and we will pray for you on your journey with the rest of us.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top