Dating a Protestant's spouse?

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I have heard that if you want to get married to a divorced Protestant in the Catholic Church, no annulment is necessary. I have been told that the Church does not recognize Protestant marriages as bound by God’s commandment and protected by God’s commandment against adultery.

Jesus tells us that if we wish to enter into life, obey the commandments and He specifically states the commandment against adultery.

**NAB MAT **19:16
“Teacher, what good must I do to possess everlasting life?” He answered, "Why do you question me about what is good? There is One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments." “Which ones?” he asked. Jesus replied “You shall not kill”; ‘You shall not commit adultery’;…”
God’s commandments, including the commandment against adultery, are summed up by the great commandments to love God and love neighbor. Stealing your neighbor’s wife is therefore an act of hatred against ones neighbor. In the case of Catholic annulments, Catholic leaders tell us that no act of hatred or violation of God’s law exists because the unnulled marriage never existed.

NAB ROM 13 Love Fulfills the Law.
Owe no debt to anyone except the debt that binds us to love one another. He who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery; you shall not murder; you shall not steal; you shall not covet,” and any other commandment there may be are all summed up in this, saying (namely) “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love never wrongs the neighbor, hence love is the fulfillment of the law.

I imagine that Catholics stealing Protestants wives or husbands is frowned on by Catholic leaders. They possibly even considered a sin. The real question is: Do Catholic leaders consider Protestant marriages an equivalent to an annulled Catholic marriage and therefore marrying a Protestant’s spouce, not a violation to Jesus and the Father’s commandment against adultery? Or do Catholic leaders respect Protestant marriages as bound by God and deserving the same protection of God’s commandment against adultery that Catholic marriages bear.

Catholic leaders, in most cases, accept Protestant baptism. Do they accept Protestant marriage?

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
 
As I understand Church teaching, any one marrying in the Catholic Church who has previously been married requires an annullment.
 
I have no clue where you would hear that marrying an individual who was previously married could be done in the Church without an annullment process of the prior marriage, but you heard wrong.

As an aside, I ssume that you are dating the Protestant. Aside from the issue of marrying outside the faith (I am assuming you are Catholic), There are perhaps a couple of other questions you should also be exploring.

Has this other person gone through any sort of counseling during or after the divorce? If so, what did they learn from the counseling? What part did they play in the divorce (nothing occurs in a vacuum; if they insist that it was all the other person’s fault, run, don’t walk, away)? What are they doing different now, that they weren’t doing during the marriage? What did they learn about how they ended up in the first marriage, in the first place? What are they doing differently now, so that they don’t end up in the same place? What kind of choices did they make, that they need to make differently, and are they doing so? What kind of behavior patterns did they establish during the marriage that didn’t work, and what are they doing to change those patterns, and what kind of results are they achieving?

How long has it been since the end of the first marriage? It is fairly well established that it takes a good two years or more to go through a grieving process, either from death of a spouse or a divorce. Failure to complete that process compounds the process of establishing a new relationship with old unresolved issues.

Most of this is an area that many, if not most divorcees are not comfortable talking about, most often, because the issues have not been grappled with. But failure to confront these issues head on is a fantastic receipe for failure: he(or she) who fails to learn from history is bound (and determined) to repeat it.

And if either you, or she is reluctant to discuss this issue (“It’s too early”; “We are [just fiends] [just trying to get to know each other] [it’s too early to discuss that] [that’s too personal] * *”) or whatever excuse one or both of you can think up, then here is my suggestion:

Find a really good divorce attorney, and start a retainer agreement that you pay so much a month to. It will avoid such a large bill when you need them. And you will need them.

Have you looked at the statistics of divorce rates where at least one of the spouses was divorced? There is a reason it is so high…

Sorry if I seem harsh. My mother had a phrase: “Love is blind. But the neighbors aren’t…”. Marriage is a really tough business in the best of situations. Failure to look at these questions I’ve listed is a sure route to imminent disaster.

Oh, and as an afterthought: are there any children of the prior marriage? And if so, do you have any clue whatsoever as to how children react to a divorce, and then to a remarriage?**
 
Steven Merten:
Catholic leaders, in most cases, accept Protestant baptism. Do they accept Protestant marriage?
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Yes.

Canon Law regarding marriage can get complicated, but my understanding is that the Church generally considers any marriage valid unless proven otherwise.
 
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otm:
My mother had a phrase: “Love is blind. But the neighbors aren’t…”.
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Love is not blind. God is love, and He sees everything.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
Why is this an appropriate topic for a poll? Polls gauge opinion, not the teachings of the Church. Who cares what someone’s opinion is on a teaching of the Church?
 
This is a trick question, right? How can someone marry a non-annulled married Protestant unless it’s bigamy? Reminds me of the old joke about how if a plane that crashes right on the US-Canadian border, where do they bury the survivors?
 
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otm:
As an aside, I ssume that you are dating the Protestant.
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Hello otm,

Thank you for your very concerned post. No, I am not dating a Protestant. I am Catholic and married to my one and only intimate partner.

Here is the reason I ask the question. I read and adore Fr. Stravinskas’s Catholic Answers magazine. I have read it for almost two decades. Only one of his answers has ever bothered me.

A Catholic woman wrote a letter in complete distress. Her husband had abandon her for another woman. Her husband was seeking an annullment to remarry his new girl friend in the Catholic Church. The wife went to the Catholic tribunal council and begged them to allow her marriage to stand. She indicated that if he should repent and come back to her, she would forgive him and accept him back. She seemed to indicate that she wanted the protection of their vows before God and God’s commandment against adultery (divorce and remarriage) to stand and protect her from the horribleness of being abandon (which it was designed to do).

The Catholic tribunal, and Fr. Stravinskas (to my amaizement), told her that her husband’s annulment of her marriage was none of her business. I was amaized. Is not Jesus’ and the Father’s commandment against adultery through divorce and remarriage given to protect just such a woman? Is not one of the main ways we love our neighbor, according to Jesus, to not abandon our spouce through divorce and remarriage?

Talking to other Catholics they told me that married Protestants do not need a Catholic annulment to remarry in the Catholic Church. They seemed to indicate that Protestant marriages were not recognized by the Catholic Church similiar to Catholic annulled marriages. I was again floored.

Just who’s marriage does Jesus and the Father’s commandment against adultery, through divorce and remarriage, protect? Just who is to recieve the love of neighbor that this commandment delivers?

I would hope that the Catholic Church believes that Protestant’s marriages are bound by God and not simply at the mercy of Caesar’s courts. Anyone know for sure?

**NAB MAT 19:3 **

The Question of Divorce.
Some Pharisees came up to him and said, to test him, “May a man divorce his wife for any reason whatever?” He replied, “Have you not read that at the beginning the Creator made them male and female and declared, 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and cling to his wife, and the two shall become as one’? Thus they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore, let no man separate what God has joined.”[color=#00000] They said to him, “Then why did Moses command divorce and the promulgation of a divorce decree?” “Because of your stubbornness Moses let you divorce your wives,” he replied; “but at the beginning it was not that way. I now say to you, whoever divorces his wife (lewd conduct is a separate case) and marries another commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.” [/color]

NAB MAT 19:16

“Teacher, what good must I do to possess everlasting life?” He answered, “Why do you question me about what is good? There is One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” “Which ones?” he asked. Jesus replied, "‘You shall not kill’; ‘You shall not commit adultery’…"

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
 
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Cherubino:
This is a trick question, right? How can someone marry a non-annulled married Protestant unless it’s bigamy? Reminds me of the old joke about how if a plane that crashes right on the US-Canadian border, where do they bury the survivors?
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Hello Cherubino,

People divorced in the eyes of the state, yet not annulled in the eyes of the Church, are still married in the eyes of God, the Church and we Catholics. Do we agree?

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
 
Steven Merten:
The Catholic tribunal, and Fr. Stravinskas (to my amaizement), told her that her husband’s annulment of her marriage was none of her business. I was amaized. Is not Jesus’ and the Father’s commandment against adultery through divorce and remarriage given to protect just such a woman? Is not one of the main ways we love our neighbor, according to Jesus, to not abandon our spouce through divorce and remarriage?
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A marriage is valid or invalid based on conditions at the time of the wedding ceremony. Since 1970, the Church has taken the approach that all broken marriages can be investigated for decrees of nullity (i.e., invalidity) by a Catholic tribunal. While that investigation is just as much of the wife’s business as it is the husband’s, the fact that the wife does not wish an annulment is not considered a relevant fact in that investigation.

Prior to 1970, the wife would have been able to block an annulment based on a defect of consent on the husband’s part, even if the marriage was actually invalid. This was done to protect the putative marriage and the innocent party’s interests, and as a punitive measure to the guilty party.
Steven Merten:
Talking to other Catholics they told me that married Protestants do not need a Catholic annulment to remarry in the Catholic Church. They seemed to indicate that Protestant marriages were not recognized by the Catholic Church similiar to Catholic annulled marriages. I was again floored.
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As many posters have indicated, this is false. Whoever said this may have been confusing this with the situation where a Catholic marries a Protestant in a Protestant church without a dispensation. In this case, the marriage is invalid, because Catholics are required to marry in the Catholic Church.
 
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Catholic2003:
As many posters have indicated, this is false. Whoever said this may have been confusing this with the situation where a Catholic marries a Protestant in a Protestant church without a dispensation. In this case, the marriage is invalid, because Catholics are required to marry in the Catholic Church.
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Hello Catholic2003,

This is good to hear. I would hate to think that the Catholic Church would see no problem in Catholics looking to marry anyone in a non-Catholic marriage as long as they made sure that the person recieved a civil divorce before the Catholic marriage took place. I would think that Church leaders believe God’s will protects those in non-Catholic marriages from the brotherly hatred of having the spouces stolen in the same way (“two shall become one” and “let no man seperate what God has joined”) Jesus and the Father protect Catholics from the brotherly hatred of having thier spouces stolen.

Do you have any Church documentation where Protestant marriages must be dissolved by a Catholic tribunal before one of the married partners (even though they may be civilly divorced)could be married in the Catholic Church.

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com

**NAB MAT 19:3

**The Question of Divorce.
Some Pharisees came up to him and said, to test him, “May a man divorce his wife for any reason whatever?” He replied, “Have you not read that at the beginning the Creator made them male and female and declared, 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and cling to his wife, and the two shall become as one’? Thus they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore, let no man separate what God has joined.”[color=#00000] They said to him, “Then why did Moses command divorce and the promulgation of a divorce decree?” “Because of your stubbornness Moses let you divorce your wives,” he replied; “but at the beginning it was not that way. I now say to you, whoever divorces his wife (lewd conduct is a separate case) and marries another commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.” [/color]
 
Steven Merten:
Do you have any Church documentation where Protestant marriages must be dissolved by a Catholic tribunal before one of the married partners (even though they may be civilly divorced)could be married in the Catholic Church.
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The following is the relevant canon from canon law. I’ll look to see if I can find any commentaries by canon lawyers that make a more explicit statement:
Canon 1085 §1 A person bound by the bond of a previous marriage, even if not consummated, invalidly attempts marriage.
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§2 Even though the previous marriage is invalid or for any reason dissolved, it is not thereby lawful to contract another marriage before the nullity or the dissolution of the previous one has been established lawfully and with certainty.
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Here is an item from the chapter Misconceptions about Declarations of Nullity in the article How Can a Marriage Be Declared Null? by Rev. Michael Smith Foster, J.C.D.:
  1. Prior marriages of non-Catholics [whether Christian or unbaptized] are invalid - NO.
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These marriages are valid marriages. If both ministers (bride and groom) are baptized Christians, they are valid sacramental marriages. Non-Catholics are not bound by the church laws which govern the form of marriage for Catholics. Obviously the faith community would not expect two Presbyterians to approach a Catholic priest to witness their exchange of vows. As long as they exchange consent, their marriage is considered a valid sacrament by the Catholic Church.
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If two Jews marry before the rabbi that is considered a valid (non-sacramental) marriage by the Catholic Church. Any question of invalidity, or dissolution, must come before a church tribunal.
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So if two Presbyterians marry and subsequently divorce, and the divorced man now wishes to marry a Catholic woman, he is not free to do so. He would only become free if the Church issued a declaration of nullity for his first marriage. For once the Catholic Church recognizes a marriage as a valid sacrament, any question of invalidity must come before a church tribunal.
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This type of petition would occur if the subsequent marriage of the Protestant or non-baptized person involved a Catholic. The faith community at large is concerned for its individual members, as the marriage of any member of the Church affects all the members (canon 1059). Nearly twenty percent of formal marriage cases pending before the Boston Tribunal pertain to marriages of non-Catholics.
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As Emily Post or Miss Manners would say, you cannot “date” anyone else’s spouse, still less can you marry the spouse of someone else. And of course from the Catholic morality point of view you cannot engage in any sexual activity with someone who is married. Your question should properly be stated: does the Catholic Church consider valid marriages contracted by non-Catholics? the answer is yes, any marriage is considered valid unless definitely proved otherwise through the investigation of the diocesan marriage tribunal.
 
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Catholic2003:
Here is an item from the chapter Misconceptions about Declarations of Nullity in the article How Can a Marriage Be Declared Null? by Rev. Michael Smith Foster, J.C.D.:
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Quote:
11. Prior marriages of non-Catholics [whether Christian or unbaptized] are invalid - NO.

These marriages are valid marriages. If both ministers (bride and groom) are baptized Christians, they are valid sacramental marriages. Non-Catholics are not bound by the church laws which govern the form of marriage for Catholics. Obviously the faith community would not expect two Presbyterians to approach a Catholic priest to witness their exchange of vows. As long as they exchange consent, their marriage is considered a valid sacrament by the Catholic Church.

If two Jews marry before the rabbi that is considered a valid (non-sacramental) marriage by the Catholic Church. Any question of invalidity, or dissolution, must come before a church tribunal.

So if two Presbyterians marry and subsequently divorce, and the divorced man now wishes to marry a Catholic woman, he is not free to do so. He would only become free if the Church issued a declaration of nullity for his first marriage. For once the Catholic Church recognizes a marriage as a valid sacrament, any question of invalidity must come before a church tribunal.

This type of petition would occur if the subsequent marriage of the Protestant or non-baptized person involved a Catholic. The faith community at large is concerned for its individual members, as the marriage of any member of the Church affects all the members (canon 1059). Nearly twenty percent of formal marriage cases pending before the Boston Tribunal pertain to marriages of non-Catholics.

Hello Catholic2003,

Well said and well documented. Thank you.

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
 
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puzzleannie:
As Emily Post or Miss Manners would say, you cannot “date” anyone else’s spouse, still less can you marry the spouse of someone else. And of course from the Catholic morality point of view you cannot engage in any sexual activity with someone who is married. Your question should properly be stated: does the Catholic Church consider valid marriages contracted by non-Catholics? the answer is yes, any marriage is considered valid unless definitely proved otherwise through the investigation of the diocesan marriage tribunal.
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Hello puzzleannie,

There are so many thoughts that go into a question and so few characters in the title box.

When a fellow Catholic told me that Protestant marriages did not need an annulment to marry in the Catholic Church, Catholics dating Protestants spouces, is the first thought that went through my mind. Are all non-Catholic married people fair game as potential Catholic marriage partners regardless of whether they are in a non Catholic marriage or not? This was a scary thought. This is why I asked the question as I did.

My Catholic freind seemed to me to be a very knowledgeable in Church doctrine. I am releaved to know he is wrong.

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
 
The Catholic Encyclopedia’s article on Sacraments states that “For administering Baptism validly no special ordination is required” and “It is now held as certain that in Matrimony the contracting parties are the ministers of the sacrament, because they make the contract and the sacrament is a contract raised by Christ to the dignity of a sacrament.”

From this I would conclude that Protestants do in fact have two sacraments (baptism and matrimony) – it’s just that these are not the two sacraments most Protestants think they have (baptism and the Lord’s Supper). Thus I would say, as so many others have already said in this thread ahead of me, Protestant marriages are generally considered valid unless proven otherwise.
 
Protestant Marriages are generally assumed to be Valid and Sacramental.

They are Sacramental as most Protestants are properly Baptized and are thus able to convey the Sacrament of Matrimony on each other.

But even in the case of other religions, the Church recognizes marriages as Valid and Natural. The marriage of 2 Jews for example. There is no way this could be Sacramental, but is a Valid Natural Marriage. The 2 Jews involved do not commit the sin of fornication when they engage in marital relations, and if one party seeks sex outside of marriage, they commit the sin of adultery.

And if a Catholic seeks to marry a divorced Jew, for example, the marriage of the Jew will still need to be examined by a Tribunal.
 
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Brendan:
Protestant Marriages are generally assumed to be Valid and Sacramental.

They are Sacramental as most Protestants are properly Baptized and are thus able to convey the Sacrament of Matrimony on each other.

But even in the case of other religions, the Church recognizes marriages as Valid and Natural. The marriage of 2 Jews for example. There is no way this could be Sacramental, but is a Valid Natural Marriage. The 2 Jews involved do not commit the sin of fornication when they engage in marital relations, and if one party seeks sex outside of marriage, they commit the sin of adultery.

And if a Catholic seeks to marry a divorced Jew, for example, the marriage of the Jew will still need to be examined by a Tribunal.
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Bolded by me.

There are other rules for non-sacramental marriages and the Tribunal examin them differently. See the
I was granted a Petrine Privilege since I was married to a Muslim who never was baptised.[] Pauline Privilege Petrine Privilege.](http://www.secondexodus.com/html/catholicdefinitions/paulineprivilege.htm)
 
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