Dating Acts of Affection - Whats a sin?

[Ross09]

Then the argument that “making out” and such is bad due to the connection to lust is false

Making out is often passionate kissing, excessive displays of affection, and often is done to titillate more than to say to the other partner “I love and appreciate and respect you.” So for many, making out is acting on lust. The lust is wrong, the action is wrong. It has less to do with attraction which is something far more complex.

 

[tjm190]

So for many, making out is acting on lust.

Even if your other statements are not challenged, this one can not lead to any conclusion more definitive than “making out is wrong sometimes”

 

[Ross09]

Even if your other statements are not challenged, this one can not lead to any conclusion more definitive than “making out is wrong sometimes”

That, or I’m trying not to sound like I’m condemning everybody. Every person knows what is in their hearts when they “make out.” If it’s lust, it’s wrong. Period.

 

[tjm190]

That, or I’m trying not to sound like I’m condemning everybody. Every person knows what is in their hearts when they “make out.” If it’s lust, it’s wrong. Period.

Any action is wrong when the motivator is lust- even sex within marriage.

 

[Ross09]

Any action is wrong when the motivator is lust- even sex within marriage.

No argument here.

 

[tjm190]

No argument here.

So the fact that action “XXXXX” is sinful when motivated by lust doesn’t really have any significance to action XXXXX in general does it?

 

[Ross09]

So the fact that action “XXXXX” is sinful when motivated by lust doesn’t really have any significance to action XXXXX in general does it?

Lust is separate, but may come part and parcel with sexual activity. When it comes to any kind of sexual activities outside of marriage, lust or not, it’s wrong. But I tend to think that if anyone is engaged in such activities outside of marriage, lust is usually involved by the sheer fact that the couple is not respecting each other and instead is satisfying appetites.

 

[tjm190]

Lust is separate, but may come part and parcel with sexual activity. When it comes to any kind of sexual activities outside of marriage, lust or not, it’s wrong. But I tend to think that if anyone is engaged in such activities outside of marriage, lust is usually involved by the sheer fact that the couple is not respecting each other and instead is satisfying appetites.

Well I wouldn’t call “making out” and the like sexual activities- and you believe that a married couple that is making out does so out of respect?

 

[Ross09]

Well I wouldn’t call “making out” and the like sexual activities- and you believe that a married couple that is making out does so out of respect?

It’s foreplay, and yes there should be respect involved.

 

[tjm190]

It’s foreplay, and yes there should be respect involved.

Given that many couples, married or otherwise, do use it as a lead up to sex, I wouldn’t label it foreplay. And what makes you so sure that married couples would be respectful and unmarried couples wouldn’t?

 

[JRKH]

Given that many couples, married or otherwise, do use it as a lead up to sex, I wouldn’t label it foreplay. And what makes you so sure that married couples would be respectful and unmarried couples wouldn’t?

When getting into terms like “making out” it is very hard to be precise. How do we determine what activities consitute axceptable “making out” and which do not?

As to the respect aspect in your question above.
If a person truly loves and respects another, they wish for the highest good for that other person. What is the Highest Good? Going to Heaven of course. So a loving person should not wish to do anything to or with that other person which would cause them to sin. Any person who engages in “Lustful”, and “sexual” activities before marriage is endangering not only their own salvation but the salvation (highest good) of the other person. Encouraging sin is never respectful no matter how “gentle” or “loving” one goes about it.
In the context of properly ordered married life, The spouses should seek to lovingly please, and pleasure each other. This pleasure is mutual and respectful of the others desires and comfort. In this context, various forms of “making out”, foreplay etc are reasonable and respectful.

Please recognize here that I speak, not as a “prim and proper, holier than thou, saint” but as one who has committed grave sin in these areas in my past. Sins that still have repercusions for me and for others. Sins for which my soul stands “Sorely Charged and convicted”. May God have Mercy on me.

Peace
James

 

[johnXXIII]

If you believe that you and you friend share the body and blood of Jesus and Mary through our common DNA but especially because of the Eucharist sharing of Jesus’ Body and Blood.then mutual respect and chasity is important. You want the best for you best friend, and want them to go to heaven with you.XXXOOO Yes, hugging and kissing is great, as long as you both have pure thoughts and desires. Try not to play games like pooking different parts of the body. When you become married, there is a life time for some of these things.
You want to tempt your friend? See how sincere he or she is? Tempting may be a sin also if you really want to have them do somethings sinful.
Its funny but, you know instinctively when something is not right!
Yes, its embarrassing for virgins to marry, It took me three days to consumate our wedding, but it was worth it. It didn’ t stop me.

 

[Peter_Dawson]

A guy and girl are dating. Is there a hard rule to determine which acts of affection are a sin and which are OK?

The baseball analogy may illistrate this well - first base, second base…

This is a difficult area in which there are no simple answers.

God made women to be flowers, and men to be flower appreciators (and vice versa, too), but we should keep our eyes on the prise – Heaven.

 

[Gerard_Nadal]

**"
A guy and girl are dating. Is there a hard rule to determine which acts of affection are a sin and which are OK?"

If you are the guy, not picking up the check is a sin. It might even signal the last date. The same for not holding doors, complimenting her, meeting the family and looking them in the eye, etc.

Seriously, beyond playing kissy face, if you have to ask, you’ve just answered your own question. St Paul warns against lighting fires of passion that we can not honorably quench. It’s not affectionate to get someone all steamed up and then leave them hanging in mid air. It’s rather cruel, actually.

If you decide that you both want to be faithful, then orchestrate the date around that goal.**

 

[KatherineG]

I kind of have the same question. I am 35, slept with several guys in the past, but have, in the past year, now come back to the faith, through the grace of God. So when I learned about the whole chastity thing I thought it was hard but a worthwhile sacrifice, and I vowed that I would stay chaste, pretty easy as I was single!

Last month, however, I met a lovely guy and we have now had several dates, no physical contact. I have made it clear to him that I don’t intend to sleep with anyone again until I am married and I am very sincere in my desire to maintain that. However, it’s the rest of it that I am unclear about, and we have not discussed that. It just does not seem reasonable that all that can be safely done is a peck on the lips?? Especially at our age. I understand that lust is sinful and I know that my feelings towards him are based on a lot more than pure physical. So if there is mutual love and respect, (as well as attraction and desire) does that mean we can go a bit further without it being a sin?

I’m also a bit afraid he will think me a basket case if I tell him its pecking on the lips only particualrly as it’s obvious that I’m not a 19 year old virgin! Please pray that I may stay strong.

 

[JRKH]

I kind of have the same question. I am 35, slept with several guys in the past, but have, in the past year, now come back to the faith, through the grace of God. So when I learned about the whole chastity thing I thought it was hard but a worthwhile sacrifice, and I vowed that I would stay chaste, pretty easy as I was single!

Last month, however, I met a lovely guy and we have now had several dates, no physical contact. I have made it clear to him that I don’t intend to sleep with anyone again until I am married and I am very sincere in my desire to maintain that. However, it’s the rest of it that I am unclear about, and we have not discussed that. It just does not seem reasonable that all that can be safely done is a peck on the lips?? Especially at our age. I understand that lust is sinful and I know that my feelings towards him are based on a lot more than pure physical. So if there is mutual love and respect, (as well as attraction and desire) does that mean we can go a bit further without it being a sin?

I’m also a bit afraid he will think me a basket case if I tell him its pecking on the lips only particualrly as it’s obvious that I’m not a 19 year old virgin! Please pray that I may stay strong.

It is indeed an interesting dilemma for some older types and I’m not sure that I am the one that should offer advise, but as a man I think I night have some valid (name removed by moderator)ut.
Is he catholic? Is he a serious Catholic?
You both need to be upfront and sincere about your intentions.
If he is worth hanging on to he should be gentle and understanding about your wishes.
As long as you both understand the limits. I would see nothing wrong with a little more serious kissing than a “Peck”.
The cautionary note on this is that such practices are “slippery slopes”.

Peace
James

 

[kage_ar]

I kind of have the same question. I am 35, slept with several guys in the past, but have, in the past year, now come back to the faith, through the grace of God. So when I learned about the whole chastity thing I thought it was hard but a worthwhile sacrifice, and I vowed that I would stay chaste, pretty easy as I was single!

Last month, however, I met a lovely guy and we have now had several dates, no physical contact. I have made it clear to him that I don’t intend to sleep with anyone again until I am married and I am very sincere in my desire to maintain that. However, it’s the rest of it that I am unclear about, and we have not discussed that. It just does not seem reasonable that all that can be safely done is a peck on the lips?? Especially at our age. I understand that lust is sinful and I know that my feelings towards him are based on a lot more than pure physical. So if there is mutual love and respect, (as well as attraction and desire) does that mean we can go a bit further without it being a sin?

I’m also a bit afraid he will think me a basket case if I tell him its pecking on the lips only particualrly as it’s obvious that I’m not a 19 year old virgin! Please pray that I may stay strong.

This is the reason that it is prudent to ONLY think about marriage with a fellow Catholic, a fellow practicing Catholic. Don’t date those who will not make a good mate.

 

[JRKH]

I kind of have the same question. I am 35, slept with several guys in the past, but have, in the past year, now come back to the faith, through the grace of God. So when I learned about the whole chastity thing I thought it was hard but a worthwhile sacrifice, and I vowed that I would stay chaste, pretty easy as I was single!

Last month, however, I met a lovely guy and we have now had several dates, no physical contact. I have made it clear to him that I don’t intend to sleep with anyone again until I am married and I am very sincere in my desire to maintain that. However, it’s the rest of it that I am unclear about, and we have not discussed that. It just does not seem reasonable that all that can be safely done is a peck on the lips?? Especially at our age. I understand that lust is sinful and I know that my feelings towards him are based on a lot more than pure physical. So if there is mutual love and respect, (as well as attraction and desire) does that mean we can go a bit further without it being a sin?

I’m also a bit afraid he will think me a basket case if I tell him its pecking on the lips only particualrly as it’s obvious that I’m not a 19 year old virgin! Please pray that I may stay strong.

Katherine,
After I posted earlier, I had this thought. In order to reamin strong, repeat the prayer at the end of my signature below. The one about “…all my actions for the love of Thee.”
Then, any “Action” (kissing, holding etc.) that does not feel like it fits with actions done for the Love of God should be avoided or stopped immediately.

Peace
James

 

[KatherineG]

Is he catholic? Is he a serious Catholic?
You both need to be upfront and sincere about your intentions.

Many thanks for your replies. Yes he is Catholic, serious about Christ and leading a good life yes, but not necessarily following all the rules as laid out, so I’m not really sure how he feels on the whole thing as it’s kinda hard to bring it up. I’ve only been seeing him a few weeks and we have not even held hands, but I’m just conscious that it’s the next step. We are both mid-late thirties and have both come back to the Church from a long time away, but he is back a few years longer than me. I did tell him I was not planning on sleeping with anyone again (although I have a daughter from a previous relationship), and he seemed Ok with that, but didn’t comment as such. IT kind of came up in the context of me telling him about my return to the faith and it wasn’t personal to the relationship if you know what I mean. So he is still with me and I suppose it’s a conversation we’ll have to have soon and I do intend being upfront and sincere but I am relieved to know that kissing is OK. I have started saying that little prayer already, thank you James.

 

[Emily2009]

Katharine–I think what you can/cannot do with your boyfriend depends on you and him. I have been dating my boyfriend for a little over twenty months–yes, long enough to be engaged if the circumstances were different. But, alas, we are young–he turned 17 in the middle of the summer, I’ll be 19 in a month. In the beginning, he would hug me-when he saw me, when we’d part, sometimes just when we were hanging out, but that was all. I was getting over a bad past relationship (I had broken up with the guy six months before starting to date Grant) and was scared to death of some things–mainly kissing. Grant didn’t kiss me for 7 1/2 months, out of respect for me. Now, kissing is okay, but only if it won’t cause problems. If on any day either of us would have ‘issues’ with it or anything else we commonly do (I really do like cuddling) then it would be a NOT happening on the day. But,…it really is what you can take, what he can take,…And, you need to be able to discuss things with him. There are some things we typically do that somedays we can not do, and it is what it is.

I was told once to never do anything I wouldn’t want someone doing with my future husband. So,…I very much hope to be doing just that. Sometimes I wonder if I’ve done more than I should have, but, then,…we pray, back things down,… …but, never go further than you can comfortably handle. (Like, with being able to stop in the instant if necessary) and Never do anything you can’t do without keeping respect.