Dating advice for young women from a man

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Here’s a post I’m pasting from a different thread to avoid going off-topic again. The discussion concerned a woman acting not very interested, as in not returning calls, always being busy etc. This is path to disaster, although it may not be visible to you just yet.

Just as I told my poor friend less than 2 hours ago, men will remember how they were treated in the beginning. It will kick back. Starting out not returning calls, not replying, promising to call but not calling etc. and later falling for the guy and expecting him to be fully dedicated and invested is not the way to start a good relationship.

Men will think, “she didn’t want me when I was giving you my everything, now she wants me when I’ve basically started caring less and trying less.” I myself think this way and I’m a lawyer who got his degree for a paper on the benefit of doubt, i.e. explaining all doubts in favour of someone. It’s very hard to get out of this pattern as a man, and in fact, it can be a huge turn-off later in a relationship, reducing the man’s interest or willingness to invest himself in the relationship. It’s possible that my own 1.5 years relationship from a couple of years ago fell apart because of this thing.

As I told my friend, skip the men whom you don’t consider good enough for you, don’t give them opportunity to linger and get you by sheer longevity. But when you do find a guy you see you could be interested in, even if you don’t know just yet, but he’s basically a guy you could like and respect, treat him well, keep your promises, be honest with him. I recommend this as a minimum. For a maximum, I would suggest that you treat all people (male or female) right, being kind, polite, honest and keeping your promises and arrangements (as Christians we should act like this to everybody anyway), but keep your boundaries clear and consistent (no going back and forth–it probably means the relationship isn’t good for any of you anyway).

At any rate,
  • don’t ever give a man substandard treatment to test him, for your both sakes because you can’t expect him not to came out scarred from that and you can’t expect him to see you as someone who wouldn’t hurt a fly if you have hurt him,
  • don’t start a relationship with someone who apparently was able to survive all the bad treatment you could give him, for your sake–like a broken dog, he will bite back when he regains control of the situation, which happened to my friend (my own interest and respect for a woman also takes a dive when the addictive charm eases down a bit),
  • defeat the urge to be attracted and pursue men who treat you badly or ignore you; they are *not *better than you just because they can apparently afford to ignore you and they are not better than men who treat you well or show interest just because they think they don’t have to; my friend learnt this lesson without me and her solution is to avoid even starting a conversation because she knows her weaknesses and she doesn’t want to make mistakes any more (or waste her time on men unworthy of her).
Furthermore, every woman in her right senses, if she wants a man at all, wants a loving husband who will love her and care for her. And so:
  • if you pick a man who doesn’t care that much and isn’t all that into you, then you will have a boyfriend and later a husband who doesn’t care that much and isn’t all that into you. He will not stop with all that nonchalance when you ask him to,
  • if you look for a man who doesn’t need you, then you won’t be able to blame anyone if you end up being an unneeded wife.
To sum up:
  • people are hurt if they are treated badly, it will not go away when we want it to;
  • people will not start being good and caring and acting interested when we ask them to;
  • people who ignore you or treat you without much regard don’t do this because they’re great people worth having so much that you should pursue them; contrary, they are people who ignore you or treat you without much regard.
I hope at least some of you will benefit from this and avoid making the mistakes I’ve seen so many friends of mine and other women make (and sometimes never fully recover from). If anything seems unclear or hard to believe, just ask and I will explain.
 
This is something I as a Catholic man have strong opinions on and it saddens me to see Catholic women fall into this trap:

Do not date non-Catholic men, especially non-religious men.

As upset as I can get at times for being single I would never consider dating a non-Catholic woman. Why? Because there are too many problems to have to deal with. Dating a non-Catholic can set you up for heartbreak from the get-go if that person won’t realistically be spousal material down the road. And if it comes to marriage it can also create a huge set of problems.

Yes ladies, you may be upset that you can’t find a Catholic boyfriend and think that the cute non-religious guy who’s totally into you would be a great guy to date, or your experience with Catholic men in the past has been negative and that great non-religious guy actually knows how to treat a lady, but don’t do it! Remember that although this guy might be great now you have to look at the long-term (especially spiritual) aspects of your relationship with him:
  1. There is no guarantee he’ll ever convert and really, IMO, this is not something you should bet on. Consider here, especially, the spiritual risks involved for him, your children, and you.
  2. It’s hard to raise kids Catholic if both parents are Catholic; if you’re practicing and he’s not the burden to raise your kids in the Faith falls solely on your shoulders…you sure you want that burden?
  3. It sets a terrible example for kids if mommy is Catholic but daddy is not and has the potential to start problems later as they grow-up, especially when they enter their teenage years and begin rebelling.
I would add to this discussion for both men and women to stay the course and keep your eyes out for Catholic singles. They’re out there! Just stay patient! And don’t fall into the trap of thinking that dating non-Catholics is the only answer! You will find a spouse if you remain patient! (something I am honestly not good at myself)
 
I am not clear on the post. However, it is apparent there is a lot of focus on the man and the woman and how they are treated and should be treated. It is an inward focus.

Find a partner that is outward focused - toward God. You will find a partner that will be a faithful companion on the journey to eternal life - heaven. Oh the joy of having a partner that is filled with the Holy Spirit. What a wonderful married life this can be.

This eternal life is a more worthy goal than the goal of being comforted here in this earthly life; which lasts about 90 years if you are lucky.

You can find these partners by observing their behavior. A prospective partner that is waiting in line for the Sacrament of Penance, is a good choice. If they receive the Sacrament of Penance on a regular basis, say monthly, then you have found a “pearl of great price.”

If you also are faithful to pray regularly (daily) and receive the sacraments often, then it is a good match. If you are not in this category, then get there!
 
This is something I as a Catholic man have strong opinions on and it saddens me to see Catholic women fall into this trap:

Do not date non-Catholic men, especially non-religious men.

As upset as I can get at times for being single I would never consider dating a non-Catholic woman. Why? Because there are too many problems to have to deal with. Dating a non-Catholic can set you up for heartbreak from the get-go if that person won’t realistically be spousal material down the road. And if it comes to marriage it can also create a huge set of problems.

Yes ladies, you may be upset that you can’t find a Catholic boyfriend and think that the cute non-religious guy who’s totally into you would be a great guy to date, or your experience with Catholic men in the past has been negative and that great non-religious guy actually knows how to treat a lady, but don’t do it! Remember that although this guy might be great now you have to look at the long-term (especially spiritual) aspects of your relationship with him:
  1. There is no guarantee he’ll ever convert and really, IMO, this is not something you should bet on. Consider here, especially, the spiritual risks involved for him, your children, and you.
  2. It’s hard to raise kids Catholic if both parents are Catholic; if you’re practicing and he’s not the burden to raise your kids in the Faith falls solely on your shoulders…you sure you want that burden?
  3. It sets a terrible example for kids if mommy is Catholic but daddy is not and has the potential to start problems later as they grow-up, especially when they enter their teenage years and begin rebelling.
I would add to this discussion for both men and women to stay the course and keep your eyes out for Catholic singles. They’re out there! Just stay patient! And don’t fall into the trap of thinking that dating non-Catholics is the only answer! You will find a spouse if you remain patient! (something I am honestly not good at myself)
I agree with this for the most part.

Don’t confuse ‘good values’ with good behavior. Just because a man–as much as you’ve observed–appears well-behaved and mannerly, the reasons for which he does this are not rooted in God or Jesus’ way.

A person who is utilitarian in his way of thinking will be gentlemanly and moral for as long as it serves him well and produces utility.

At the same time, those who say… ‘Oh well, there are so many nominally Catholic men out there, who cares. They are just as bad and even worse than many non-religious, etc.’
There is a hard and fast answer to this: culture. A man who today wastes himself in bars and brothels, could erupt in tears tomorrow when he sees a statue of the Blessed Virgin and swear it all away. Not even cases where there are miracles: a person who spent his youth in Catholic churches will feel very comfortable coming back, listening to the priest, and reading the Gospel.

With God there is hope. A familiarity or affinity for the Church means that it will be easier to come back to Her way, and God’s way. Its just that simple.

And, if you do choose to bring up your children with a non-Catholic mate: be ready for a house divided. Don’t expect instant conversion, especially if they are not even willing to wake up for church with you every Sunday.
 
I agree with this for the most part.

Don’t confuse ‘good values’ with good behavior. Just because a man–as much as you’ve observed–appears well-behaved and mannerly, the reasons for which he does this are not rooted in God or Jesus’ way.

A person who is utilitarian in his way of thinking will be gentlemanly and moral for as long as it serves him well and produces utility.

At the same time, those who say… ‘Oh well, there are so many nominally Catholic men out there, who cares. They are just as bad and even worse than many non-religious, etc.’
There is a hard and fast answer to this: culture. A man who today wastes himself in bars and brothels, could erupt in tears tomorrow when he sees a statue of the Blessed Virgin and swear it all away. Not even cases where there are miracles: a person who spent his youth in Catholic churches will feel very comfortable coming back, listening to the priest, and reading the Gospel.

With God there is hope. A familiarity or affinity for the Church means that it will be easier to come back to Her way, and God’s way. Its just that simple.

And, if you do choose to bring up your children with a non-Catholic mate: be ready for a house divided. Don’t expect instant conversion, especially if they are not even willing to wake up for church with you every Sunday.
I actually think, on reading this post, that we agree totally.

Anyway, to your last comment here, I’d argue that you shouldn’t just be prepared for a house divided if your spouse isn’t Catholic: you shouldn’t even bother dating a non-Catholic to begin with. It again goes back to the issue of conversion: yes they may and hopefully will convert later. But what guarantee is there of this? None whatsoever. It’s best not to take the risk at all.
 
I actually think, on reading this post, that we agree totally.

Anyway, to your last comment here, I’d argue that you shouldn’t just be prepared for a house divided if your spouse isn’t Catholic: you shouldn’t even bother dating a non-Catholic to begin with. It again goes back to the issue of conversion: yes they may and hopefully will convert later. But what guarantee is there of this? None whatsoever. It’s best not to take the risk at all.
You are correct, but…
Although I would never ask or advise the risk of an entire family, i for one am sure glad that the dear Catholic gal I married almost 40 yrs ago DID take a risk on this non-Catholic guy !
It took me years to really understand what the RCC & the Holy Mass is all about, but when i did…oh My God. 🙂
I am exceedingly blessed.
 
I am not clear on the post. However, it is apparent there is a lot of focus on the man and the woman and how they are treated and should be treated. It is an inward focus.

Find a partner that is outward focused - toward God. You will find a partner that will be a faithful companion on the journey to eternal life - heaven.
A person who is truly focused on God, and a faithful companion on the journey to eternal life, is not a person who will treat others badly and there’s no such thing as being focused on God while mean or lousy to people. A person going to confession monthly and receiving the sacraments often while being mean to people or offering substandard treatment to a potential life partner is not that great marriage material. A person having some connection with Catholicism but acting like the opposite of a loving person is definitely not even hopeful material yet. The hope that any such person could one day experience a conversion of heart is not something to build a marriage on.
 
You are correct, but…
Although I would never ask or advise the risk of an entire family, i for one am sure glad that the dear Catholic gal I married almost 40 yrs ago DID take a risk on this non-Catholic guy !
It took me years to really understand what the RCC & the Holy Mass is all about, but when i did…oh My God. 🙂
I am exceedingly blessed.
That’s good news, indeed! My worry, nonetheless, is on the uncertainty of conversion.

What does everyone else think? I’m sorta confused on what to think myself, although I would still try to avoid dating non-Catholics.
 
That’s good news, indeed! My worry, nonetheless, is on the uncertainty of conversion.

What does everyone else think? I’m sorta confused on what to think myself, although I would still try to avoid dating non-Catholics.
I would say give a chance if someone lives and treats others like a good Catholic should, as long as there are no anti-Catholic attitudes or anything that would call the validity of marriage into question. “He who loves knows God.” But no wasting time with people who only hurt you, look out for number one, make problems with chastity.
 
Thank you for this post. I really needed to hear this (although I’ve heard it all before). You see, in the past few days I’ve been crying and trying to convince my foolish heart not to get involved with an atheist who does in fact ignore me for weeks and then acts sweet etc etc. I know that I do want a relationship with a man who shared my faith and who’s truly motivated to be with me, but it’s still amazingly difficult to cut ties. Thank you for the encouragement to do it anyway. Please pray for me and all other single women who don’t see a single good Catholic man on the horizon and are beginning to be impatient :). I’ll pray for all of you in return, of course!
 
Kasenka, any decent man (not just Catholic) should treat you better than that even if he weren’t romantically interested. I will pray for you (and all others).
 
You are correct, but…
Although I would never ask or advise the risk of an entire family, i for one am sure glad that the dear Catholic gal I married almost 40 yrs ago DID take a risk on this non-Catholic guy !
It took me years to really understand what the RCC & the Holy Mass is all about, but when i did…oh My God. 🙂
I am exceedingly blessed.
I wrote my horrible reactionary post as the son of a former Protestant (converting after meeting my mother).

There is definitely hope, but if in many cases it defeats the purpose of dating if, spiritually, you are just on different levels.
 
There is definitely hope, but if in many cases it defeats the purpose of dating if, spiritually, you are just on different levels.
This is basically what I was hoping to get at, especially if the partner (or potential partner) is non-religious.
 
This is something I as a Catholic man have strong opinions on and it saddens me to see Catholic women fall into this trap:

Do not date non-Catholic men, especially non-religious men.

As upset as I can get at times for being single I would never consider dating a non-Catholic woman. Why? Because there are too many problems to have to deal with. Dating a non-Catholic can set you up for heartbreak from the get-go if that person won’t realistically be spousal material down the road. And if it comes to marriage it can also create a huge set of problems.

Yes ladies, you may be upset that you can’t find a Catholic boyfriend and think that the cute non-religious guy who’s totally into you would be a great guy to date, or your experience with Catholic men in the past has been negative and that great non-religious guy actually knows how to treat a lady, but don’t do it! Remember that although this guy might be great now you have to look at the long-term (especially spiritual) aspects of your relationship with him:
  1. There is no guarantee he’ll ever convert and really, IMO, this is not something you should bet on. Consider here, especially, the spiritual risks involved for him, your children, and you.
  2. It’s hard to raise kids Catholic if both parents are Catholic; if you’re practicing and he’s not the burden to raise your kids in the Faith falls solely on your shoulders…you sure you want that burden?
  3. It sets a terrible example for kids if mommy is Catholic but daddy is not and has the potential to start problems later as they grow-up, especially when they enter their teenage years and begin rebelling.
I would add to this discussion for both men and women to stay the course and keep your eyes out for Catholic singles. They’re out there! Just stay patient! And don’t fall into the trap of thinking that dating non-Catholics is the only answer! You will find a spouse if you remain patient! (something I am honestly not good at myself)
There should be a caveat. The fact that he is a Catholic is just the beginning of the equation. As a woman I have experienced a number of times where the guy is Catholic and actually particpating in the chruch and STILL not marriage material. There are a lot of participating, Mass going guys who are might benominal Catholic or if not completely nominal - have issues with chastity, porngraphy, serious unhealed past childhood issues, misogynist, etc. What you should hopefully look for is Catholic guy and whose heat is not only set on being a particpant in Church but actualy in love with and centred on God and willing to work on whatever issues he has…THAT is way more realistic and harder to find. Darkening the curch door is a very flimsy minimum and cuases a lot of people a lot of pain when they realize their partner’s Catholic faith is not as it should be and will not cahnge in a hurry or at all.
 
I like this thread!! 😛

I think also, a lot of this stuff is interchangeable for men and women. I fell into the trap of loving a woman who treated me like her handbag and accessory; a boyfriend for the sake of having all the nice things that nice guys who are boyfriends do. It sucked.

Finding a good Catholic partner is one of the hardest things to do. A needle in a haystack. Pray the Lord guides us! 👍
 
As the host of this thread, I would like to point our most interested readers, i.e. the young ladies, to this one other thread, here:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=447460&page=3

And I particularly mean the last posts by Kage and Jay. Courtesy is a very important thing and I mean no disrespect in saying, as I need to do, that it is often lacking in how young women treat men (the coin has two sides, it’s not just men gone bad). Let’s get it back in place.

This connects with what I said earlier about the fact that the way we treat others affect the way they feel about us and wounds leave scars and scars don’t help build a happy relationship.
 
Hi Chevalier,

I am a bit confused about the motivation behind your post

are you

a) Asking woman not to treat men badly because it’s not nice and hurtful?

or b) Are you giving us brotherly advice because you think woman deserve better

Thanks

CM
 
I would say give a chance if someone lives and treats others like a good Catholic should, as long as there are no anti-Catholic attitudes or anything that would call the validity of marriage into question. “He who loves knows God.” But no wasting time with people who only hurt you, look out for number one, make problems with chastity.
Hi chevalier, I agree that it is a waste of time for young women to date people who hurt them, are selfish and make problems.
I have to tell you that when I was just eighteen I married a really loving young man and he still is (after 32 yrs of marriage) but he did not know God and still doesn’t. This makes it really hard for us. We do not share the most important thing, the hope of everlasting life! It is especially sad for me when I go to mass alone ( our two grown boys are also unbelievers), pray alone and cannot share my faith with my husband, without him sighing in boredom. So I would have to advise the young women to not date anyone unless they love God and they are a good Catholic. It will be well worth the waiting.
 
Hi Chevalier,

I am a bit confused about the motivation behind your post

are you

a) Asking woman not to treat men badly because it’s not nice and hurtful?

or b) Are you giving us brotherly advice because you think woman deserve better

Thanks

CM
The motivation behind my post is linked to the conversation with my friend that I mentioned. I am not focusing on who deserves what, but my intention is to give the younger ladies some advice to help them avoid repeat the same mistakes as I have witnessed so many times. As a bonus, this should help avoid some men being hurt. Therefore both a) and b) are true and a) is equally as valid a motivation for a woman to act on as b) is, or in fact more valid (self-preservation is good, but desire not to hurt others is nobler). The two are interlinked because acting well causes good results in society, which is ultimately good for-self-preservation, while acting bad causes bad results in society, which is ultimately bad for self-preservation. To illustrate the point, a victim of shabby treatment or games will at some point, if he/she doesn’t resist the conditioning, resort to shabby treatment of others in turn,or games. This will create further victims, in time, some of whom will turn into further abusers or players. Saying no to games and abuse and making the effort to treat people with kindness and respect breaks the cycle, reducing abuse and thinning the ranks of players. I’m sorry, but I’m INTJ, so I really think along such lines.
 
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