Dating Advice regarding Agnostics?

[cmhllama]

For a women to enter a relationship based on the notion that she can “change” the guy is always a recipe for disaster.

That is true. You can’t change a man.

I’m not going to try to convert him. If it turns out we aren’t tolerant enough or respectful enough of each other, then we can’t be more than friends. If you can’t accept someone for who they are, you need to part ways.

 

[whatevergirl]

Even though you clearly said:

This is what you get:

Oh well. Keep in mind that you’re not going to find a more conservative Catholic community than the CAF. To suggest that you don’t want children will leave these folks foaming at the mouth.

I am answering your question from the other side. I am an agnostic married to a Catholic. (My wife is originally from a country where a very large percentage of the population is Catholic, so her Catholicism is probably as much cultural as it is religious. Although the idea of not attending Sunday mass would be unthinkable to her, she sometimes rolls her eyes at certain church teachings.) Even as one who struggles with the existence of God, I have no problem going to mass with my wife every Sunday. She appreciates it, and I find it to be a peaceful way to start the week. Having grown up in a church with a very similar liturgy, I find a familiar comfort in the mass. It’s a time for quiet reflection, the homily is occasionally interesting, and I try to remain open to the possibility of some “revelation.” Additionally, we are both somewhat active in parish activities.

Anyway, my wife and I are very happily married, so based on our experience, I have to say that a relationship between a Catholic and a non-Catholic (even one who questions God) can be successful. It really just depends upon the couple. Now, if I was disrespectful of my wife’s beliefs, or if she was very strict and tried to impose certain church teachings on the way I live my life, then there might be a problem. However, if you are both willing to be respectful and flexible, it can be good.

Best of luck.

I think it’s gracious and humble of you to attend mass with your wife. I think that is downright awesome, actually! Your openmindedness might lead to you converting someday, I am glad to read your story.

 

[cmhllama]

Oh well. Keep in mind that you’re not going to find a more conservative Catholic community than the CAF. To suggest that you don’t want children will leave these folks foaming at the mouth.

Oh, I already know how conservative this board is. I’m surprised the first post wasn’t someone trying to start a fight with me about why I don’t want kids! I said I’m not discussing why we don’t want children, and am sticking to it. No one is going to try to weasel me into that argument.

I’m going to put on my teacher hat and only address the posters who followed my directions which was to give me dating advice, not marriage and childrearing advice.

Anyway, my wife and I are very happily married, so based on our experience, I have to say that a relationship between a Catholic and a non-Catholic (even one who questions God) can be successful. It really just depends upon the couple. Now, if I was disrespectful of my wife’s beliefs, or if she was very strict and tried to impose certain church teachings on the way I live my life, then there might be a problem. However, if you are both willing to be respectful and flexible, it can be good.

Best of luck.

Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut! I’m not interested in trying to convert anybody or impose my beliefs on non-believers. I don’t think non-Catholics are necessarily going to Hell, and I have very dear friends who aren’t even Christian. I haven’t gone into depth with this guy about my faith and everything I actually do, but he knows I go to Mass every Sunday and used to teach religion classes. That hasn’t turned him away. So far, he seems tolerant and respectful.

We’ll just have to get to know each other better and see how flexible each other is. I don’t know if he’d be willing to go to Mass every Sunday if we ever got into a longterm relationship. That’d be nice if he did just to support me , even if he wasn’t interested in converting. I don’t know yet if I really need to have my man come with me to Mass every Sunday or if I’m okay with only special occasions, or if I’m okay with never. Again, I’ll just have to find out.

But like I said, we might not even go beyond friendship! So all this thinking might be for naught.

 

[whatevergirl]

*To the OP;

I personally think it’s best to date only Catholic men, if you truly want a strongly** stationed **marriage in the faith. I think that marriages between Catholics and non-Catholics can work…but do you want a marriage to merely ‘‘work,’’ or do you want to be able to share every facet of your soul with the man you marry? That is the ultimate question. Many people don’t think about that, as they are falling in love. Once in love, they continue on…saying, “it will all work out.” And in many cases, it does ‘work,’ but there are so many little sacrifices that you will be making to be with someone who is not Catholic. Like 1ke said, it can be a lonely marriage, when it comes to journeying in faith. You are nowhere near thinking about marriage now, but before it goes really far…you might want to analyze things now. I would imagine you wouldn’t be asking us this, if you felt uber-good about dating an agnostic, as a Catholic.

The flip side is…he could convert. Never know. *

 

[cmhllama]

The real key is two fold.

1.) Never compromise on the Faith

2.) Practice the Faith in a loving way, don’t argue, simply explain. You will need to become a pretty good apologist for this.

It helped a lot that my wife was a Physics teacher, and therefore had some training in logical thought and rational debate.

Tips have been noted. Thanks! I think my new just-a-friend and I are both logical, rational thinkers.

Anyway, that’s great that you have a group in your church to help support your spiritual side. The only thing is, I desire an intimate spiritual relationship with my girlfriend. Without it, there is something significant missing. I have stayed with her hoping she will take an interest, I have tried everything. Now I am trying to let her be. I am trying to be the best Catholic I can be. So far, she is uninterested.

Do you have a support system to go to? Is the problem that your girlfriend isn’t supportive or that you just have no one as faithful as you to talk to? If you had a support system, do you think you feel under less pressure to be a Christian for two (I think you were the poster that mentioned that earlier…)?

I love my girlfriend and I want to marry her, I just don’t think I can. I’m just not ready to end it yet. I guess I’m just hoping for her conversion. I hope that some of what I have said is helping.

As Maya Angelou said, “If someone shows you who they are, believe them.” If you’re waiting on her to convert, your waiting might be in vain.

But your (name removed by moderator)ut has been helpful, kib. Based on what you’re saying, it sounds like in order for a Catholic and Agnostic to be more than friends, there has to be mutual flexibility and respect for each others beliefs. A mission for one to convert the other is fruitless.

 

[agapewolf]

You’re still not getting it.

It’s fine if you dont’ want kids. What isn’t fine is your attempt to shmeer marriage with that desire. Your question is moot because you don’t want kids. It’s very simple.

Dating is to find a spouse. In order to marry, one must be open to children.

Therefore, when you don’t want children, don’t date, cause you can’t marry. 1+1=2

 

[cmhllama]

*You are nowhere near thinking about marriage now, but before it goes really far…you might want to analyze things now. I would imagine you wouldn’t be asking us this, if you felt uber-good about dating an agnostic, as a Catholic.
*

I’m just the type of person who overthinks things before jumping in. It’d be very easy for me to have a crush on this guy, but I don’t want to become absolutely smitten over a man if there’s no longterm potential (again ). So now, my brain has to approve of the man before I let my heart have fun.

Again, we’ve only been talking a little under a month and only recently met face-to-face, but so far the only potential issue I see is that he’s Agnostic. He’s passed a lot of my other criteria for a guy: high morals (he was “straight-edge” in high school and is 2/3 straight-edge now, look it up on urban dictionary if you don’t know what that means ), educated, responsible, healthy, similar longterm goals, similar values regarding money, and most of all, no desire for kids (and we have similar reasons why)! As a plus, he’s open to trying new foods (I’m Vegan) and has similar taste in movies and books as me (he’s a reader, yay!). On a purely shallow level, he’s also cute (works out 3 times a week and was a wrestler back in high school, holla!). I know looks fade, I’m just saying…

So any (name removed by moderator)ut from others in this situation is much appreciated, because if he continues to pass my “criteria” over time, I want it to go for it. We still haven’t talked about the 3 biggies: politics, religion and sex.

 

[whatevergirl]

*You sound like you have much in common. My only word of caution is this…when we choose a potential spouse (I know, you are just beginning, but all marriage proposals began with a first date) if we are only looking at things through a secular lense, that is what we will get…a secular marriage. Marrying an agnostic who doesn’t want children, is this in your best interest, if you really think it through? I know you also don’t want children, but I think that your faith, if you’re honest with yourself, has tremendous meaning in your life. You are asking…can putting a round peg in a square hole work? It can, but it will be hard. Any truly devout Catholic who marries someone who is not of the faith, can tell you…it can work, but there is no way that they are sharing that aspect…faith, is there anything more important than your faith? Good looking guys who work out in gyms, who are smart, and have good jobs (and who are vegan too!)…CAN BE found on Catholic dating websites. Just sayin’.

I’m not here to debate you…it’s your life, you have to make your own decisions. But, if your faith is important to you, why wouldn’t you want it to be important in a mate? That is the only angle I encourage you to think about.

Blessings to you, for the future. *

 

[cmhllama]

I’m surprised you’ve found a lot of good Catholic boys that want a litter of kids. They are hard to find around me.

Oh, go to catholicsingles.com. I can’t remember if match.com or chemistry.com tells you how many kids the person wants. But it’s one of the secular sites.

Please know, however, that I define litter as “more than 3.”

 

[kage_ar]

You cannot have a valid marriage if you are not open to children.

What you would have is a situation where you find man throw an expensive party and move in as roommates and have sterile sex. You will separate yourself from the Sacraments.

Pray, learn your faith and then think about marriage.

 

[cmhllama]

• You are asking…can putting a round peg in a square hole work? It can, but it will be hard. Any truly devout Catholic who marries someone who is not of the faith, can tell you…it can work, but there is no way that they are sharing that aspect…faith, is there anything more important than your faith? *

No, nothing is more important than my faith, but that’s just it. I’m already strong in my faith, I know who I “work for,” who my “boss” is. No one can take that away from me. None of my non-Catholic friends have led me astray. I’m secure enough in my faith where I don’t see non-believers as a threat to me or my faith. My relationship with God is mine alone, and is not dependent on my friend “Suzy’s” relationship with God. In other words, my relationship with God is still strong even if Suzy’s relationship with God is weak. This is the case with my non-Catholic friends and I.

However, I know that a romantic relationship is different from a friendship, though they often start as friends. So I’m just wondering if I need different standards for a romantic relationship than a friendship (ie does my mate HAVE to be Catholic for it to work for me?).
This is why I’m seeking the experiences of people who’ve been in this situation.
whatevergirl;5870409:

Good looking guys who work out in gyms, who are smart, and have good jobs (and who are vegan too!)…CAN BE found on Catholic dating websites. Just sayin’.

Yeah, I did meet a Catholic guy online who works out, smart, has a good job, the same politics as me and is vegetarian (formerly Vegan), but he wants 12 kids (4 of his own, 8 adopted). He might have been exagerrating, but just the same, he wants tons of kids, his own and adopted! Ah well.

 

[whatevergirl]

*Yeah, I think that you have to look very differently at friends vs a spouse, when it comes to faith. You don’t live with your friends, your friends are not going to be raising your kids, you’re not going to be intimate with your friends, etc etc…all of those ‘‘events’’ have a different aspect of the Catholic faith to them. Your friend could be agnostic, and won’t affect your life one way or the other. If your husband is agnostic, it could work out fine, but you won’t share your faith, or have that ‘‘in common.’’ Faith is not a hobby…unlike golf or something. If your spouse doesn’t like to play golf, you can still play if you like it. Morally neutral. But, when you marry, you become one flesh, and thus, the decisions you make won’t be born out of faith–TOGETHER. You won’t be in union when it comes to faith.

Maybe this doesn’t affect people the same, I dunno. I know it would trouble me if my husband wasn’t on the same page as me, faith-wise. It’s a non issue. When we make decisions, our faith helps us to make unified decisions. As a Catholic spouse, I want to share my faith with my husband…with our kids. My dh does, also. I think our marriage would be…hmmm…emptier without that sharing of our faith. Without that common bond of faith. That’s just me, you might feel differently. But, when it comes to friends vs spouses…a spouse’s faith or lack of faith, can dramatically affect a marriage, whereas with a friendship, not so much. It can affect the friendship, of course, but not to the extent that it can affect a marriage. Just my :twocents:*

 

[kib]

Do you have a support system to go to? Is the problem that your girlfriend isn’t supportive or that you just have no one as faithful as you to talk to? If you had a support system, do you think you feel under less pressure to be a Christian for two (I think you were the poster that mentioned that earlier…)?

I recently graduated from college in August, but while there I was the treasurer and bible study leader for our Catholic Student Association. So, luckily I had an AWESOME support system. The problem is, I feel that spiritual intimacy with your significant other is the best way to stave off temptation to physical intimacy. Especially when one person feels that this type of intimacy is a *good *thing before marriage.

As Maya Angelou said, “If someone shows you who they are, believe them.” If you’re waiting on her to convert, your waiting might be in vain.

You may be right. For a while it looked like she was interested. However, within the last year she became friends wiht some real douche bags (pardon the language) who have undone most of the work the Holy Spirit did on her. Unfortunately, she is very much a product of the people she spends the most time around.

But your (name removed by moderator)ut has been helpful, kib. Based on what you’re saying, it sounds like in order for a Catholic and Agnostic to be more than friends, there has to be mutual flexibility and respect for each others beliefs. A mission for one to convert the other is fruitless.

Maybe not fruitless, but difficult. My girlfriend definitely respects my beliefs. She attends mass with me when our schedules align. She listens to Peter Kreeft, Fulton Sheen etc. with me in my car. But she doesn’t believe, she is not open to having more than two children etc. That is not enough for me. I need her to love Christ more than she loves me for this to work.

I just wanted to clarify that I don’t believe *all *non Catholics are going to hell. I would just rather err on the side of caution when speaking about someone I love. I will fight for her as if I am sure she is damned in her current state. Scripture is pretty clear: “Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat.” I think it is safe to say people who reject Christ are in serious danger of damnation.

One more thing that may interest you. I am a cradle Catholic who became an atheist for a little over a year in college. I was also a straight edge, vegetarian, scenester not so long ago. Since he is/was straight edge I would assume he is in “the scene.” I will just say that leaving that culture is the best thing I have ever done. I still listen to some of the Christian bands from that time in my life (life in your way etc.), but that environment is seriously caustic to your soul. All of my closest friends from the scene are hardcore atheists to this day.

 

[cmhllama]

As for experience dating agnostics, many posters here over the years have posted on their dating or marriage to an agnostic, atheist, or non-practicing Catholic or Protestant. Caveat emptor.

Here are some past threads with experiences in various posts from people married to agnostics and/or atheists. There is much regret in most of these posts:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=386789

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=384355

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=344431

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=323270

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=289030

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=284864

A lot of the regret, however, is because the Catholic spouse was trying to convert the Agnostic/Atheist spouse and (surprise, surprise…) their spouse didn’t change. I already know “you can’t change a man.” It’s not fair to marry someone and then try to get them to convert. They were upfront from the beginning.

I don’t know yet if I can seriously date (or marry) someone who isn’t Catholic. However, I try to be an open-minded, tolerant, respectful person, and I don’t believe non-Catholics (including Atheists and Agnostics) are necessarily doomed to Hell. Although I participate in Mass and am in young adult groups, a lot of my spiritual practice is very individual. So I’m wondering if I really need my date/boyfriend/husband to be specifically Catholic, or if “very moral” is enough.

And as I alluded to earlier, I just can’t find a practicing Catholic man who is compatible with me! I know patience is a virtue and good things come to those who wait. But what if I miss out on my true husband because I’m so fixed on finding a Catholic man? Does it really matter if my spouse doesn’t read “Word Among Us” magazine, doesn’t like going to religious stores and doesn’t say grace before eating? If he’s faithful in marriage, respectful of my beliefs, keeps commnication open and makes big decisions with me, isn’t that more important then whether or not he wants to sit through Mass once a week? I’ll just have to find out for myself.

I’m not too smitten though. I know that we might just remain friends.

 

[cmhllama]

You may be right. For a while it looked like she was interested. However, within the last year she became friends wiht some real douche bags (pardon the language) who have undone most of the work the Holy Spirit did on her. Unfortunately, she is very much a product of the people she spends the most time around.

Maybe not fruitless, but difficult. My girlfriend definitely respects my beliefs. She attends mass with me when our schedules align. She listens to Peter Kreeft, Fulton Sheen etc. with me in my car. But she doesn’t believe, she is not open to having more than two children etc. That is not enough for me. I need her to love Christ more than she loves me for this to work.

I just wanted to clarify that I don’t believe all non Catholics are going to hell. I would just rather err on the side of caution when speaking about someone I love. I will fight for her as if I am sure she is damned in her current state. Scripture is pretty clear: “Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat.”

What a shame those douches (don’t excuse your language with me, I’m not offended ) influenced her! Ugh. One step forward, ten steps back. But that’s pretty cool that she respects your beliefs. I think one is forced to do so when one lives in a world whose beliefs differ from hers. I have similar experiences as a Vegan. Although I’m absolutely disgusted by meat now, I know that if I want to dine and break bread with non-vegans, I have to tolerate meat at the table. I know my diet isn’t mainstream.

It sounds like if you can’t fully accept her for who she is, you can’t be together, though it pains me to say this. Yes, people SOMETIMES change their religious beliefs, but is it really fair to try to convert her (or expect her to change someday) when she’s been honest from the beginning? Don’t we need to accept our spouses, faults and all? Otherwise, if we can’t deal with their imperfections, we shouldn’t marry them.

It sounds like you need a devout Catholic woman. I know very little about your situation, but it doesn’t sound like you’re going to get a devout Catholic woman out of her, at least not anytime soon. If you only want to marry this gal, and you only want to marry her if she becomes Catholic, you might be waiting a lonnnnng time for marriage.

 

[hullchelle]

Anyone know of some good Catholic Dating sites?

 

[kib]

I’ve never used any, but I know of these:

avemariasingles.com/

catholicmatch.com/

catholicsingles.com/

 

[Maria65]

I’m a practicing Catholic and am dabbling in the world of online dating. I’ve just started hanging out with a man I was exchanging messages with for a couple weeks, and we are starting out as “just friends” for now with the possibility of being more than friends later on (both of us believe in taking things slow). So far, I have a positive first impression of him, but he’s Agnostic. We haven’t started talking in depth about our spirituality/philosophy (we have been keeping the conversation light), but he knows I go to Mass. He went to “strict” Catholic schools for elementary school and I think his family is Catholic.

I’m wondering if anyone out has had experience with dating an Agnostic person and what advice you have to offer? Did it work out? If so, why? If your relationship didn’t work, why not? We just met, so I’m not planning my wedding. We might just remain friends.

For the record, neither one of us will be having kids, ever. We met on a website made specifically for singles who don’t want kids, actually. I’m not here to talk about why we don’t want kids or defend my position. However most other forums I’ve checked out regarding this topic usually focus on what to do about the kids, but that issue is irrelevant for me and therefore, I don’t need advice on that .

Oh, my gosh, don’t even go there. When their online dating profile says something like “spiritual but not religious,” that’s a euphemism for “I don’t believe in anything.” I would run.

 

[LongingForLight]

Personally, I believe you shouldn’t date unless you are considering marriage. Because of this, I do think the points about not wanting children invalidating the marriage are actually quite key. If you don’t want children and will be permanently avoiding them, you are already saying that you are not seeking a Catholic marriage.

I guess my next question is, what are you seeking? If it’s not Catholic marriage but you still want legal marriage, odds are good that our advice won’t be too relevant - because most people at CAF would advise against such a relationship, which would be sinful. If you are seeking a romantic but chaste and celebate relationship . . . most of us would be confused, and probably dubious. And if you are seeking a romantic, long-term unchaste relationship - well, that should be a no-brainer as to what we would advise, regardless of if the man is agnostic or otherwise.

This matters also because it helps you understand where pain and suffering could enter in if you pursue a relationship with this man. You can definitely fall deeply in love with an agnostic and share a life together, but if you take your faith seriously and desire the best for your beloved - i.e., desire that he know, love, and serve God more than he does you or himself - then you are likely to experience a rich form of suffering that no person can handle without God’s grace. If you can place yourself and your beloved in God’s hands, it may be worth it. Of course, if you can decide to enter in to a relationship knowing that it will probably bring you suffering, you probably already truly love him.

I speak as someone who is married to a wonderful agnostic man whom I love very, very dearly. I believe God called me to marry this man, although I don’t know if God would have called me to this specific marriage if we had remained chaste during our early relationship. While our love for each other is wonderful, joyful, fulfilling, and so much more - I also hurt deeply because I see what my husband lacks by not having faith. Even worse, I see how I hurt not just myself, but also him when I fail to persevere in faith and in love of God. If I loved God as much as I desire to, the pain my sins cause Our Lord would be a greater source of suffering to me. However, I instead suffer more because of how they hurt my beloved husband, perhaps because - unlike Our Lord - he does not even know he is being hurt, and therefore cannot forgive me for the harm I cause him.

At the same time, my husband is truly Christ to me. By loving him sincerely, I learn to love God and Christ better and my faith is deepened. I have not found my relationship with my husband at all harmful to my faith, but instead it has been motivating me to seek a deeper faith so that I might be worthy of this man’s life and love.

My husband is very respectful of my faith, and even encourages it. If you want any kind of serious relationship with this young man, look for signs of this. If he mocks and discourages you from attending church, going to reconciliation, or otherwise expressing your faith, that should be a red flag that you will eventually need to choose between your faith and this man, or else will need to accept a severe breach in intimacy between the two of you. On the other hand, if he supports and encourages these things, ask him if he will always give you this support. That will be key to balancing your faith and his lack of faith. You still will not have the same kind of intimacy as if he devoutly shared your faith and you were drawn together by that sharing, but at least it will not be a wedge betwen you.

Another thing to consider is that there are varying levels of faith and devoutness amongst agnostics. If your boyfriend believes that there is a philosophic reason why agnosticism is superior, you will be in a different situation than my DH and I and will need to deal with an entirely different set of issues that could be very divisive. My DH doesn’t believe that agnosticism is somehow “right”, it is simply what he is. He is willing to accept Catholicism as being at least as good or possibly better than “not knowing”, and takes my faith as reason enough to call our family “Catholic”.

HTH, and gives you something to think on. I really think the first question you need to ask yourself is, “What do I want out of this relationship, since I don’t want a Catholic marriage?”