Dating as friends becomes a possible issue

[Mannyfit75]

Greetings,

Many of you know I am discerning the priesthood. However, since 15 December 2007, I have been seeing a female here as a mutual friend. Both she and I are not seeking a relationship. She made it clear. I also made it clear.

However, after a month (I actually got to talk to her on 8 December 07). I find myself completely infatuated with her. I look up the term infatuation. Wikipedia states the following:

Infatuation is the state of being completely carried away by unreasoning passion or love; addictive love. Infatuation usually occurs at the beginning of relationship when sexual attraction is central. It is characterized by urgency, intensity, sexual desire, and anxiety, in which there is an extreme absorption in another. It is traditionally associated with youth.

However, infatuation doesn’t always revolve around sex. It may also be defined as an extreme want to simply be around someone. Infatuation could also be a crush, the urgent want to develop a relationship with someone.

Infatuation obliges the person to concentrate on the “object of their affection,” therefore, this makes the infatuated person continually think of their “crush.” This is seen as all-consuming, which is therefore easily interpreted as love, bringing the afflicted person to proclaim statements such as: “I love…” when they are (generally) romantically infatuated. This inability to identify between infatuation and love brings about the commonly-used phrase: “Love is blind” as the person involved finds it difficult to concentrate on other matters or see fault with the person(s) they admire.

This infatuation is consuming me. I have never been infatuated for over 4 yrs, and now it just happen again. I didn’t know how I handle it the first time, but this time seem new and fresh. I show the signs of infatuation. I can’t stop thinking about her. She is in my dreams, my thoughts, my mind, and in my heart. When I see her at Mass I feel like I’m blissed at her sight. Of course, my main focus at Mass is the Eucharist. It always have been. That hasn’t change.

She comes second. Even though she is second. These feelings just won’t go away. It’s been over a month, and this has not go away. I don’t really know how to approach this. I don’t even know if she feels the same way I do. She does know that I do find her extremely attractive.

I have told a priest that I find her love for the Church and God the most attractive quality of a woman. She is young though, she is 23 yrs old and I am 32 yrs old. She is also single like me.

My mind tells me to approach this as it is; as friendship. However, if this does go beyond mere friends, I don’t know how to handle this. I feel like a lost sheep with no sense of direction. Oh one more thing, marriage at this point is too early. I consider a later possibility…

Here is another information about infatuation.

When infatuated we experience a surge of dopamine that rushes through the brain causing us to feel good. Norepinephrine flows through the brain stimulating production of adrenaline (pounding heart). Phenylethalimine (found in chocolate) creates a feeling of bliss. Irrational romantic sentiments may be caused by oxytocin, a primary sexual arousal hormone that signals orgasm and feelings of emotional attachment. Together these chemicals sometimes override the brain activity that governs logic.

I heard from Jason Evert that the effects oxytocin can last 36 or more months.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I need any good sound advise…

 

[mercygate]

How intensely have you been discerning for Priesthood? I ask because if you’re just mulling this over in your own head, you are in a different place from a person who has actually taken steps to declare himself and who has not been discouraged.

• Are you working with a spiritual director?
• Have you approached institutes of Religious life or a diocesan vocations office?
• Please know, that after Ordination almost every priest will “fall in love” with someone who causes them to question their vocation.
• Most Priests also go through a “My God, WHAT have I DONE?” period in their lives when it really sinks in that this is an irrevocable life decision.

 

[Mannyfit75]

How intensely have you been discerning for Priesthood? I ask because if you’re just mulling this over in your own head, you are in a different place from a person who has actually taken steps to declare himself and who has not been discouraged.

over 1 year. I believe a 1 and 6 months.

• Are you working with a spiritual director?

Two Catholic Chaplains. One of the Chaplain left. There is another chaplain who will assist me. The other Chaplain, is inform that I am dating my friend and he recommends just be honest with her. He even said that there was a Air Force woman who was dating her boyfriend who is in the seminary had the same issues. Even though their relationship is more serious than mine.

• Have you approached institutes of Religious life or a diocesan vocations office?

Yes. The Vocation Director of PA. I actually meet him during my EML Leave in August.

• Please know, that after Ordination almost every priest will “fall in love” with someone who causes them to question their vocation.
• Most Priests also go through a “My God, WHAT have I DONE?” period in their lives when it really sinks in that this is an irrevocable life decision.

This is the problem. I don’t want to become a priest because I can’t find a woman. I hope to be a priesthood base on God’s calling. Since God calls men to the priesthood.

Second, I don’t want to be in a relationship where I assumed these feelings are consider true love. Feelings can be deceiving at times. Feelings can come and go, and when it goes away. The love disappears and the relationship ends.

I know I just meet her. I don’t consider what I am feeling is love but rather a crush or infatuation. I had thought this crush would go away in 2 to 3 weeks, but its a month now. I don’t know what this feeling is. I do believe its part of a relationship. The first stages.

 

[mercygate]

over 1 year. I believe a 1 and 6 months.

• Are you working with a spiritual director?

Two Catholic Chaplains. One of the Chaplain left. There is another chaplain who will assist me. The other Chaplain, is inform that I am dating my friend and he recommends just be honest with her. He even said that there was a Air Force woman who was dating her boyfriend who is in the seminary had the same issues. Even though their relationship is more serious than mine.I realize that seminary is still part of the “age of discernment” but looking from a perspective of life experience, I would advise people in seminary not to date. The undivided heart and all that.

Yes. The Vocation Director of PA. I actually meet him during my EML Leave in August.

So you’ve taken concrete steps and nobody has said anything like, “Don’t call us; we’ll call you.”

This is the problem. I don’t want to become a priest because I can’t find a woman.

Well, I guess you’ve got the answer to that!

I hope to be a priesthood base on God’s calling. Since God calls men to the priesthood.

Yes. But he calls people both TO this and FROM other things. Ask the Boss to spare you a soap opera and give it to you straight. Make sure you’re ready to follow through, whatever the outcome. You have to MEAN it!

Second, I don’t want to be in a relationship where I assumed these feelings are consider true love. Feelings can be deceiving at times. Feelings can come and go, and when it goes away. The love disappears and the relationship ends.

Even if it’s “true love” the Boss may be asking you to take another path.

I know I just meet her. I don’t consider what I am feeling is living but rather a crush or infatuation. I had thought this crush would go away in 2 to 3 weeks, but its a month now. I don’t know what this feeling is. I do believe its part of a relationship. The first stages…

Well, infatuation is the fun part. If you kiss her goodbye right now, and go forward to priesthood, you can always look back on this as the sacrifice of the love of your life. How poignant. I don’t mean to be flip. There are many ways in which this experience can be a life-learning experience, however it turns out.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I realize that seminary is still part of the “age of discernment” but looking from a perspective of life experience, I would advise people in seminary not to date. The undivided heart and all that.

So you’ve taken concrete steps and nobody has said anything like, “Don’t call us; we’ll call you.”

I’m not in a seminary yet. The date which I am in is not serious. So I thought it would be safe to go out with her. I guess wrong. The strong attraction to her is clearly present.

Well, I guess you’ve got the answer to that!

Yes. But he calls people both TO this and FROM other things. Ask the Boss to spare you a soap opera and give it to you straight. Make sure you’re ready to follow through, whatever the outcome. You have to MEAN it!

So I ought to just stay the course where this may lead?

Even if it’s “true love” the Boss may be asking you to take another path.

It could be.

Well, infatuation is the fun part. If you kiss her goodbye right now, and go forward to priesthood, you can always look back on this as the sacrifice of the love of your life. How poignant. I don’t mean to be flip. There are many ways in which this experience can be a life-learning experience, however it turns out.

So you want to stay the course. She does know I am discerning the priesthood. However, I don’t know if she know that I am infatuated with her. She does know that I think her as a very attractive woman.

 

[mercygate]

I’m not in a seminary yet. The date which I am in is not serious. So I thought it would be safe to go out with her. I guess wrong. The strong attraction to her is clearly present.

No. You are not in seminary; that really does make a difference. I was referring to the other person you mentioned.

So I ought to just stay the course where this may lead?

You’re in the military. Once you understand the order from your commanding officer, you know what you have to do!

So you want to stay the course. She does know I am discerning the priesthood. However, I don’t know if she know that I am infatuated with her. She does know that I think her as a very attractive woman.

There are things she needs to know (you are discerning for Priesthood – and have been encouraged by those who are working with you) and things she does nOT need to know, i.e., that you are bonkers for her. Even if you did not have the complication of this vocation thing, it would be a little early to confide your infatuation. Most women would run like H-E-double-hockey-sticks to receive such a declaration so early in the game.

You’ve been around the Forums for a while now, Manny. You can be somewhat volatile and reactive. Keep that in mind as you make decisions in this. You thend to operate off the “hot” switch.

 

[Mannyfit75]

No. You are not in seminary; that really does make a difference. I was referring to the other person you mentioned.

Crystal clear.

You’re in the military. Once you understand the order from your commanding officer, you know what you have to do!

I do. Usually, the course of the relationship is determine mainly by the other party, whom I am seeing as a friend.

There are things she needs to know (you are discerning for Priesthood – and have been encouraged by those who are working with you) and things she does nOT need to know, i.e., that you are bonkers for her. Even if you did not have the complication of this vocation thing, it would be a little early to confide your infatuation. Most women would run like H-E-double-hockey-sticks to receive such a declaration so early in the game.

I do think this infatuation completely annoying to me. It is something I don’t need. I had been in a relationship 4 yrs ago which I brought off about 1 and half ago, which was around the time I considered the priesthood. The priesthood was suggested to me by another priests who ask me if I have consider about it. I gave it a week, and yes I would. That was in my last deployment in Aug-2005-June 2006.

I do want this infatuation to just go away.

You’ve been around the Forums for a while now, Manny. You can be somewhat volatile and reactive. Keep that in mind as you make decisions in this. You thend to operate off the “hot” switch.

I can be extremely volatile towards individuals who are completely oppose to the Catholic doctrine. It’s become my second nature to defend all things Catholic…

 

[anamchara]

Manny, I feel you need to talk with this girl and let her know. Please don’t feel I am trying to discourage the priesthood for you. But do you think there is a possibility that maybe you are being called to a different vocation? You bring up infatuation and I think you have convinced yourself, thats all it is. It could be but it sounds like you’ve known her a long time, a year right? That seems a long time to throw it off as infatuation. This started as a friendship, to me that says there might be more.

I know this isn’t easy. You have my prayers.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Manny, I feel you need to talk with this girl and let her know. Please don’t feel I am trying to discourage the priesthood for you. But do you think there is a possibility that maybe you are being called to a different vocation? You bring up infatuation and I think you have convinced yourself, thats all it is. It could be but it sounds like you’ve known her a long time, a year right? That seems a long time to throw it off as infatuation. This started as a friendship, to me that says there might be more.

I know this isn’t easy. You have my prayers.

I know her for a month. I consider her to be a dear friend of mine. I try not to fall for her, which makes it extremely difficult to avoid because what I am feeling is infatuation.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Yes. But he calls people both TO this and FROM other things. Ask the Boss to spare you a soap opera and give it to you straight. Make sure you’re ready to follow through, whatever the outcome. You have to MEAN it!

Even if it’s “true love” the Boss may be asking you to take another path.

Well, infatuation is the fun part. If you kiss her goodbye right now, and go forward to priesthood, you can always look back on this as the sacrifice of the love of your life. How poignant. I don’t mean to be flip. There are many ways in which this experience can be a life-learning experience, however it turns out.

 

[mercygate]

Manny – if you don’t mind my asking, what is your native language? (not that it has anything to do with this thread.)

 

[Mannyfit75]

Manny – if you don’t mind my asking, what is your native language? (not that it has anything to do with this thread.)

The only language I speak is English. I don’t know any other language. I was born in the Philippines, but raise in the US.

Please note, I have the habit of not proof-reading my own writing.

 

[mercygate]

The only language I speak is English. I don’t know any other language. I was born in the Philippines, but raise in the US.

Please note, I have the habit of not proof-reading my own writing.

Thanks. Again: not that it has anything to do with anything.

If you pursue seminary, where would you begin? Do you have an undergraduate degree? Would you have to start from scratch as a college freshman to do philosophy?

 

[Mannyfit75]

Thanks. Again: not that it has anything to do with anything.

If you pursue seminary, where would you begin? Do you have an undergraduate degree? Would you have to start from scratch as a college freshman to do philosophy?

I would start attending Pre-Theology. I have some college credits. Since I don’t have anything philosophy, I need to attend the Pre-Theology. This was already discuss with the Director of Vocation. It could take 6 to 8 yrs to be ordain.

I really shouldn’t discuss this since this thread has nothing to do with the topic.

 

[mercygate]

I would start at Pre-Theology. I have some college credit. Since I don’t have anything philosophy I need to attend the Pre-Theology. This was already discuss with the Director of Vocation. It could take 6 to 8 yrs to be ordain.

So at least you would not have to take a whole second degree.

 

[Archerette74]

I do want this infatuation to just go away.

This is the key in my opinion. You do not want to be infatuatied with her. While I do not know if you can hurry an infatuation away, I DO know you can make a decision to stop your relationship with this young woman.

Your research into infatuation should tell you something. It’s NOT love. Could your relationship with this woman turn into love down the road? Yes. If you want to prevent that from happening then you need to tell her that you have decided to pursue the priesthood and that you have to break off your relationship with her.

If she is being a good Christian, she will put God first and bow out of this. Her friendly feelings for you are not as important as God calling you to the priesthood.

That’s all only if you are SURE it was God who called you and not just a priest putting an idea in your head during a hurtful time in your life after your 4 year relationship ended.

If you’re not 100% sure it was God who called you to priesthood, you first need to tell your friend that you need about a month away from her to think things out. Then you need to prayerfully consider what God wants from you. And you need spiritual direction during that time. Go on retreat if possible to discern. You need to listen to God, not your friend and not your infatuation feelings. If God is asking you to do something, say yes and do whatever you need to do (dissolve your friendship) to successfully follow through with what God is asking of you.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I know her for a month. I consider her to be a dear friend of mine. I try not to fall for her, which makes it extremely difficult to avoid because what I am feeling is infatuation.

A dear friendship takes longer than a month to develop. Of course in a war zone friendships develop more quickly due to the nature of the shared experience. But upon coming home, it is a completely different situation.

This is the key in my opinion. You do not want to be infatuatied with her. While I do not know if you can hurry an infatuation away, I DO know you can make a decision to stop your relationship with this young woman.

And this is something the Hollywood stars can’t seem to do. They all want to do whatever their feelings tell them. Manny, you do not want this for your life.

Your research into infatuation should tell you something. It’s NOT love. Could your relationship with this woman turn into love down the road? Yes. If you want to prevent that from happening then you need to tell her that you have decided to pursue the priesthood and that you have to break off your relationship with her.

Yes

If she is being a good Christian, she will put God first and bow out of this. Her friendly feelings for you are not as important as God calling you to the priesthood.

That’s all only if you are SURE it was God who called you and not just a priest putting an idea in your head during a hurtful time in your life after your 4 year relationship ended.

If you’re not 100% sure it was God who called you to priesthood, you first need to tell your friend that you need about a month away from her to think things out. Then you need to prayerfully consider what God wants from you. And you need spiritual direction during that time. Go on retreat if possible to discern. You need to listen to God, not your friend and not your infatuation feelings. If God is asking you to do something, say yes and do whatever you need to do (dissolve your friendship) to successfully follow through with what God is asking of you.

You and mercygate have given Manny very wise advise.

Manny, realize that your whole life these things will happen. Even if you marry her, you might become infatuated with someone else. Even if you become a priest, you will become infatuated. The fact that you are not bound is what’s hard in your decision making. That does not mean you should act on your feelings.

Again, it’s normal, it happens to everyone. Just accept it for what it is. It will turn to love only if you nurture the romantic part of the relationship, which would be wrong if you are truly called by the boss to become a priest.

You have not been discerning the priesthood for very long. It sounds as if someone suggested it to you, and you decided it was a good idea. The Church needs more priests, you could do it. But discern if you have been truly called. Your spiritual advisor can help you.

Meantime, enjoy your friendship, be respectful, and don’t act on your emotions!

God bless you, I offered mass for you this morning.

 

[Seminarian_Tim]

Manny,

I keep seeing you talk about how in love you are with her, but is that love reciprocated? Does she have the same feelings toward you? Not that you have to have someone love you back to love them, but it would be a shame to see you pursue this relationship just to see it fall apart in a few months because she had mixed feelings.

As someone who has spent a semester already in college seminary, I can tell you that in many cases, it takes more effort to leave than it does to enter. Some may disagree with me, but in my limited experience thus far, leaving is much more traumatic than coming in. Why is this? I think the biggest reason is the unspoken but incorrect expectation from each seminarian that because they have entered seminary, they will go all eight years (or however long the individual is scheduled to be in formation) and come out as a priest. If you want to live in a bubble for eight years, then MAYBE that will happen. However, the majority of us have to come to grips with the fact that we may wake up one day and realize that we are simply not where God wants us to be. And it can be that fast, or it can be a growing feeling of restlessness over a few months. Understand that this distraction you don’t want could very easily be an open door that will not stay open forever.

So, am I telling you not to enter seminary? No. Am I telling you not to date this girl and see where it goes? No. I think what it comes down to is a personal discernment by you as to whether you want to have your cake or you want to eat it, because as we all know, the married life and the priesthood are mutually exclusive. In our Catholic faith, you simply cannot participate in both simultaneously.

One thing I will recommend is making a Holy Hour in front of the Blessed Sacrament wherever you can find the Eucharist exposed- chapel, parish, etc. Please don’t underestimate what sitting in front of Jesus for an hour can do, even if you go there doing all the listening. I am personally a huge chatterbox and learning how to listen to Jesus has been a much bigger blessing than talking to him ever was.

I wish you the best of luck my friend, and please feel free to PM me if you ever need anything.

Yours In Christ,

Tim

 

[qui_est_ce]

Manny,

I keep seeing you talk about how in love you are with her, but is that love reciprocated? Does she have the same feelings toward you? Not that you have to have someone love you back to love them, but it would be a shame to see you pursue this relationship just to see it fall apart in a few months because she had mixed feelings.

He said he was infatuated, not in love. He does not know how to handle this infatuation or feelings. But he will need to learn, because this isn’t the last time it will happen.

As someone who has spent a semester already in college seminary, I can tell you that in many cases, it takes more effort to leave than it does to enter. Some may disagree with me, but in my limited experience thus far, leaving is much more traumatic than coming in. Why is this? I think the biggest reason is the unspoken but incorrect expectation from each seminarian that because they have entered seminary, they will go all eight years (or however long the individual is scheduled to be in formation) and come out as a priest.

I think it’s also because of the expectations your family has and you feel so good about becoming a priest, and then suddenly you’re not “good” anymore. You feel you have disappointed everyone, probably even God.

If you want to live in a bubble for eight years, then MAYBE that will happen. However, the majority of us have to come to grips with the fact that we may wake up one day and realize that we are simply not where God wants us to be. And it can be that fast, or it can be a growing feeling of restlessness over a few months. Understand that this distraction you don’t want could very easily be an open door that will not stay open forever.

We have a seminarian or a transitional deacon from the seminary at our parish every year. They are a great inspiration to us. We have had two first year priests too. One, I got blessed by him on after his ordination. I think there is supposed to be something special about that, but I can’t remember. Both have left the priesthood. It was very painful for them and for us as a parish. They loved our parish, but then got sent out to mega parishes in the suburbs.

So, am I telling you not to enter seminary? No. Am I telling you not to date this girl and see where it goes? No. I think what it comes down to is a personal discernment by you as to whether you want to have your cake or you want to eat it, because as we all know, the married life and the priesthood are mutually exclusive.

Also, I would not let a 23 year girl make a life decision for me, no matter how mature she seems. Once the romance wears off, there is life to live.

One thing I will recommend is making a Holy Hour in front of the Blessed Sacrament wherever you can find the Eucharist exposed- chapel, parish, etc. Please don’t underestimate what sitting in front of Jesus for an hour can do, even if you go there doing all the listening. I am personally a huge chatterbox and learning how to listen to Jesus has been a much bigger blessing than talking to him ever was.

Manny prays too much as it is!

I am truly touched by Manny’s openness to us, and the warm and supportive replies he is getting. The Holy Spirit is here.

God bless you all.