Dating Christ's Crucifixion

stuartc · Dec 22, 2011

I have been carefully studying the references and passages regarding Jesus’ crucifixion and I believe - despite the symbolic allusions made to the sacrifice of the paschal lamb at passover - that it actually occurred a lot later in the year. Here is my reasoning:

Jesus was crucified during the time Pontius Pilate was in office (26 AD - 36 AD).

Jesus is traditionally accepted to have been crucified on a Friday.

It is said that Jesus was crucified at the third hour, an eclipse occurring at the sixth hour (very roughly 12:00) and his death at about the ninth hour (again very roughly 15:00).

Using the NASA eclipse explorer program and looking for all eclipses in the first century, six occur between 26 and 36 AD. Of these two occur on a Friday:- 6th February 26 AD and 1st September 34 AD. Both of these do not occur at the passover, but the later occurs at approx. 12:50, just 10 minutes after the sixth hour (12:40, then lasting almost 2 1/2 hours) on Rosh Hashanah (2 Tishrei), the Jewish/Hebrew New Year. It actual occurs on the 2nd of the two days that celebrate Rosh Hashanah, the Eucharist therefore having been instituted on the first (Thursday 1 Tishrei).

What a perfect day to institute the new covenant, at the beginning of the new year! Also note that the Orthodox Churches celebrate the beginning of the liturgical year on 1st September, possibly as a commemoration of the actual date that they know?

Thoughts please!

bmullins · Dec 22, 2011

Doesn’t the entire supposition require for Sacred Scripture to be wrong when it gives us markers to place it at Passover? Also, why does a solar eclipse have to do with it? After all could not God have made ANY day go dark? More especially the moment that his son died on the cross?

stuartc · Dec 22, 2011

well, there is already a much noted “mistake” that in John’s gospel (Jn 19:14) he tells us that Jesus’ crucifixion was the day before passover (preparation day), where as the synoptic gospels tell us it occurred on the night of passover…

you seem to have edited your reply…

of course God could make the sky go dark, but your initial position was regarding the accuracy of scripture, which now you seem to have underplayed and going for the usual “but couldn’t God have just made it so…”. If you are going to talk about specific markers in the bible for p(name removed by moderator)ointing events, then surely a solar event such as an eclipse (or possible eclipse from your standpoint) be as valid as a jewish celebration. I am suggesting that the connection with passover was made retrospectively, so to embelish the symbology of the paschal sacrifice.

Then again, perhaps the Jewish calendar has changed since these times and we are unaware, or would that be silly?

bmullins · Dec 22, 2011

That is not necessarily a mistake. Many people have written about the fact that if Jesus followed the Essene tradition he would have celebrated Passover 3 days before the Pharisees / Sadducees. Which makes perfect sense as the Essene did not participate in the temple sacrifice but used unleavened bread for their Passover celebration.

bmullins · Dec 22, 2011

Here is a writing by Pope Benedict XVI addressing that very issue. He is an amazing theologian and if you get a chance, his Jesus of Nazarath is astounding.

Mass of the Lord’s Supper

This contradiction seemed unsolvable until a few years ago. The majority of exegetes were of the opinion that John was reluctant to tell us the true historical date of Jesus’ death, but rather chose a symbolic date to highlight the deeper truth: Jesus is the new, true Lamb who poured out his Blood for us all.

In the meantime, the discovery of the [Dead Sea] Scrolls at Qumran has led us to a possible and convincing solution which, although it is not yet accepted by everyone, is a highly plausible hypothesis. We can now say that John’s account is historically precise.

Jesus truly shed his blood on the eve of Easter at the time of the immolation of the lambs.
In all likelihood, however, he celebrated the Passover with his disciples in accordance with the Qumran calendar, hence, at least one day earlier; he celebrated it without a lamb, like the Qumran community which did not recognize Herod’s temple and was waiting for the new temple.

stuartc · Dec 22, 2011

that then would surely make the synoptic gospels incorrect?

Aelred_Minor · Dec 22, 2011

stuartc said:
that then would surely make the synoptic gospels incorrect?

If we accept the theory expressed by Pope Benedict that would mean both the synoptic gospels and John are correct in their timing of the event.

thistle · Dec 22, 2011

stuartc said:
I have been carefully studying the references and passages regarding Jesus’ crucifixion and I believe - despite the symbolic allusions made to the sacrifice of the paschal lamb at passover - that it actually occurred a lot later in the year. Here is my reasoning:

Jesus was crucified during the time Pontius Pilate was in office (26 AD - 36 AD).

Jesus is traditionally accepted to have been crucified on a Friday.

It is said that Jesus was crucified at the third hour, an eclipse occurring at the sixth hour (very roughly 12:00) and his death at about the ninth hour (again very roughly 15:00).

Using the NASA eclipse explorer program and looking for all eclipses in the first century, six occur between 26 and 36 AD. Of these two occur on a Friday:- 6th February 26 AD and 1st September 34 AD. Both of these do not occur at the passover, but the later occurs at approx. 12:50, just 10 minutes after the sixth hour (12:40, then lasting almost 2 1/2 hours) on Rosh Hashanah (2 Tishrei), the Jewish/Hebrew New Year. It actual occurs on the 2nd of the two days that celebrate Rosh Hashanah, the Eucharist therefore having been instituted on the first (Thursday 1 Tishrei).

What a perfect day to institute the new covenant, at the beginning of the new year! Also note that the Orthodox Churches celebrate the beginning of the liturgical year on 1st September, possibly as a commemoration of the actual date that they know?

Thoughts please!

The actual date of the crucifixion is of interest to me but does not matter as it has no impact on my faith.

Barbkw · Dec 22, 2011

According to Kepler’s Laws of Planetary Motion, the blood red moon St. Peter mentioned and the Passover that landed on a Friday - Jesus was crucified on April 3, 33.

(From Bethelem Star - Rick Larson)

bethlehemstar.net/

EWTN is reairing “The Star of Bethlehem” this week before Christmas.

stuartc · Dec 22, 2011

I wished also to propose that perhaps the gospels were in fact talking of two different suppers; the eucharist having been instituted at passover, jesus then arrested the following morning, then either the judgement then a lengthy imprisonment, or vica versa, until rosh hashanah occuring (or no arrest then judgement until new year with no imprisonment, and a rosh hashanah seder occuring as the second supper). The synoptic gospels speak only of Pilate offering to release a prisoner (Barabas) at the time of festival (the specific festival in this context not actually named) and there are no definite qualifiers that indicate precise movements of time between the last supper, the arrest, trial and crucifixion.

Again, thoughts?

Leegal · Dec 22, 2011

Barbkw said:
According to Kepler’s Laws of Planetary Motion, the blood red moon St. Peter mentioned and the Passover that landed on a Friday - Jesus was crucified on April 3, 33.

(From Bethelem Star - Rick Larson)

bethlehemstar.net/

A lunar eclipse occured on April 3, 33. Several sources point to this date and this appears to be the generally accepted date. Also note that the Synoptic gospels count a day from sunrise to sunrise while John’s gospels use the Judean method of counting a day from sunset to sunset. One site suggests that it is the synoptic gospels chronology which is more accurate.

holtz.org/Library/Social%20Science/History/Metals%20Age/Dating%20Jesus%20Death%20by%20Lunar%20Eclipse.htm

jesuswalk.com/lessons/chronology.htm

catholicknight.blogspot.com/2007/04/exact-date-of-christs-crucifixion.html

stuartc · Dec 22, 2011

Barbkw said:
According to Kepler’s Laws of Planetary Motion, the blood red moon St. Peter mentioned and the Passover that landed on a Friday - Jesus was crucified on April 3, 33.

(From Bethelem Star - Rick Larson)

bethlehemstar.net/

EWTN is reairing “The Star of Bethlehem” this week before Christmas.

the only two problems is that the lunar model proposed makes reference to Acts 2:20, but fails to account for the preceding mention of a darkened sun in conjunction with the early OT prophecy. the second problem is that this lunar eclipse lasted only 1/2 hour, where as if the gospel has mistakenly described a lunar eclipse as a solar eclipse, it stills account for an around 3-hour event, unless you wish to suggest this is mistaken too…

Leegal · Dec 22, 2011

stuartc said:
I wished also to propose that perhaps the gospels were in fact talking of two different suppers; the eucharist having been instituted at passover, jesus then arrested the following morning, then either the judgement then a lengthy imprisonment, or vica versa, until rosh hashanah occuring (or no arrest then judgement until new year with no imprisonment, and a rosh hashanah seder occuring as the second supper). The synoptic gospels speak only of Pilate offering to release a prisoner (Barabas) at the time of festival (the specific festival in this context not actually named) and there are no definite qualifiers that indicate precise movements of time between the last supper, the arrest, trial and crucifixion.

Again, thoughts?

This site gives somewhat of a timeline. Remember, that a day can be counted either from sunrise to sunrise (Synoptic gospels) or from sunset to sunset (Judean). Barrabbas is not mentioned. Also, because of the differences in counting a day, it has been suggested that Jesus celebrated earlier than the official day because of the differences in the calendar.

"I Howard Marshall, Last Supper and Lord’s Supper (Eerdmans, 1980), discusses the chonology in some detail, pp.67-75 and Table 4, and concludes “Jesus held a Passover meal earlier than the offical Jewish date, and that he was able to do so as the result of calendar differences among the Jews.” (footnote to one of the previous references provided).

jesuswalk.com/lessons/chronology.htm

stuartc · Dec 22, 2011

Leegal said:
This site gives somewhat of a timeline. Remember, that a day can be counted either from sunrise to sunrise (Synoptic gospels) or from sunset to sunset (Judean). Barrabbas is not mentioned. Also, because of the differences in counting a day, it has been suggested that Jesus celebrated earlier than the official day because of the differences in the calendar.

"I Howard Marshall, Last Supper and Lord’s Supper (Eerdmans, 1980), discusses the chonology in some detail, pp.67-75 and Table 4, and concludes “Jesus held a Passover meal earlier than the offical Jewish date, and that he was able to do so as the result of calendar differences among the Jews.” (footnote to one of the previous references provided).

jesuswalk.com/lessons/chronology.htm

Where is Barrabbas not mentioned… If you are referring to the gospels, he is named at Lk 23:18

I am already aware of the difference in calendar dating that could have occurred, but i am proposing a theory based around solar activity that suggests a far different date rather than passover for the crucifixion. I have already said that he would have celebrated the passover meal, which was possibly the last supper and the insitution of the eucharist, or two suppers have been conflated in the narrative…

Leegal · Dec 22, 2011

stuartc said:
the only two problems is that the lunar model proposed makes reference to Acts 2:20, but fails to account for the preceding mention of a darkened sun in conjunction with the early OT prophecy. the second problem is that this lunar eclipse lasted only 1/2 hour, where as if the gospel has mistakenly described a lunar eclipse as a solar eclipse, it stills account for an around 3-hour event, unless you wish to suggest this is mistaken too…

“To this debate, Humphreys and Waddington add a new factor which previous scholars had not included. In the Acts 2, 14:21 it was reported that the Moon would be turned to blood and the Sun turned to darkness at the time of the Resurrection. This observation also appears in the so-called ‘Report of Pilate’ which was written by Pilate to Emperor Tiberius. If this is taken as a lunar eclipse, then the Crucifixion can be dated exactly. Lunar eclipses were frequently described in exactly this way, even verbatum, by contemporary historians. Predictions show that there was only one lunar eclipse visible from Jerusalem at the time of passover in the period from 26 - 36 AD. It occurred on Friday April 3, AD 33. The Moon rose above the horizon already in the midst of eclipse and would have progressively ‘turned to blood’ as the eclipse continued.”

I’m no astronomer, but is it not so that in a solar eclipse the sun turns to blood.

Please see the link as it shows the difference between the solar and the lunar eclipse and the lunar eclipse looks pretty red to me.

catholicknight.blogspot.com/2007/04/exact-date-of-christs-crucifixion.html

Leegal · Dec 22, 2011

stuartc said:
Where is Barrabbas not mentioned… If you are referring to the gospels, he is named at Lk 23:18.

You asked for a timeline; I provided one that I found. The timeline does not mention Barrabbas, but it’s a timeline and I was referring to the timeline, not the gospels.

stuartc · Dec 22, 2011

Leegal said:
“To this debate, Humphreys and Waddington add a new factor which previous scholars had not included. In the Acts 2, 14:21 it was reported that the Moon would be turned to blood and the Sun turned to darkness at the time of the Resurrection. This observation also appears in the so-called ‘Report of Pilate’ which was written by Pilate to Emperor Tiberius. If this is taken as a lunar eclipse, then the Crucifixion can be dated exactly. Lunar eclipses were frequently described in exactly this way, even verbatum, by contemporary historians. Predictions show that there was only one lunar eclipse visible from Jerusalem at the time of passover in the period from 26 - 36 AD. It occurred on Friday April 3, AD 33. The Moon rose above the horizon already in the midst of eclipse and would have progressively ‘turned to blood’ as the eclipse continued.”

I’m no astronomer, but is it not so that in a solar eclipse the sun turns to blood.

Please see the link as it shows the difference between the solar and the lunar eclipse and the lunar eclipse looks pretty red to me.

catholicknight.blogspot.com/2007/04/exact-date-of-christs-crucifixion.html

I know the difference between a lunar and solar eclipse… It has been suggested, not by me, that perhaps in the gospels during various rescribing of texts that the word solar was incorrectly inserted where the word lunar had been. As for the reference in Acts to lunar activity, the same passage refers to a darkening of the sun, for which these two make no account…

stuartc · Dec 22, 2011

Leegal said:
You asked for a timeline; I provided one that I found. The timeline does not mention Barrabbas, but it’s a timeline and I was referring to the timeline, not the gospels.

I never asked for a timeline, I can read the bible, but there is a vagueness in the text that does not always point towards specific timeframes, such as “they left for the mount of olives”… was an immediate event, was it a few days later, etc… I won’t list all of these here, but if you go through the gospels, a certain amount of presumption is made regarding continuity

stuartc · Dec 22, 2011

here is some spreadsheet information…

Solar Eclipses visible from Jerusalem, ISRAEL

Latitude: 31° 46’ 00" N
Longitude: 35° 14’ 00" E
Altitude: 808.9m
Time Zone: 03:00 E

Calendar Date Eclipse Type Partial Eclipse Begins Sun Alt A or T Eclipse Begins Maximum Eclipse Sun Alt Sun Azi A or T Eclipse Ends Partial Eclipse Ends Sun Alt Eclipse Mag. Eclipse Obs. Eclipse Duration
01-Jun-10 P 05:31 0(r) - 05:31(r) 0(r) 62 - 06:14:06 8 0.589(r) 0.498(r) 00:43:06
04-Apr-08 P 10:02:32 45 - 11:15:25 58 137 - 12:35:01 65 0.331 0.214 02:32:29
05-Mar-28 P 18:17:05 7 - 18:51(s) 0(s) 273 - 18:51 0(s) 0.503(s) 0.392(s) 00:33:55
05-Sep-22 P 06:28 0(r) - 06:57:25 6 92 - 07:59:15 19 0.514 0.4 01:31:15
06-Sep-11 P 08:20:01 25 - 09:15:03 36 108 - 10:16:02 48 0.192 0.096 01:56:01
17-Feb-15 P 11:46:33 42 - 13:11:19 45 185 - 14:33:03 39 0.699 0.624 02:46:30
19-Jun-21 P 13:51:09 71 - 15:08:57 55 266 - 16:18:06 41 0.658 0.583 02:26:57
20-Dec-03 P 13:14:50 35 - 14:44:31 27 214 - 16:04:17 16 0.761 0.699 02:49:27
24-Sep-21 P 18:15:31 4 - 18:37(s) 0(s) 272 - 18:37 0(s) 0.301(s) 0.184(s) 00:21:29
26-Feb-06 P 08:24:07 9 - 09:40:37 23 128 - 11:08:33 35 0.737 0.665 02:44:26 Friday
27-Jan-26 P 17:35:06 6 - 18:06:20 0 247 - 18:07 0(s) 0.097 0.035 00:31:54
29-Nov-24 P 10:22:15 29 - 11:44:13 37 167 - 13:12:06 37 0.921 0.906 02:49:51
32-Apr-28 P 08:28:14 31 - 08:47:21 35 96 - 09:06:51 39 0.038 0.009 00:38:37
33-Sep-12 P 11:54:49 62 - 12:58:21 63 192 - 13:59:29 57 0.198 0.101 02:04:40
34-Sep-01 P 12:46:40 67 - 13:58:19 61 224 - 15:06:27 49 0.321 0.205 02:19:47 Friday
38-Jun-21 P 08:09:41 31 - 08:28:51 35 82 - 08:48:23 40 0.034 0.007 00:38:42
39-Dec-04 P 13:21:08 35 - 13:58:35 32 203 - 14:35:01 29 0.107 0.042 01:13:53
41-Apr-19 P 06:34:05 5 - 06:56:01 9 84 - 07:18:35 14 0.068 0.021 00:44:30
45-Aug-01 P 10:45:26 61 - 12:02:50 74 143 - 13:21:48 74 0.643 0.567 02:36:22
49-May-20 P 09:26:44 47 - 10:57:27 66 114 - 12:41:00 78 0.929 0.891 03:14:16

Sun and Moon Data for One Day Sun and Moon Data for One Day

The following information is provided for Jerusalem (longitude E35.2, latitude N31.8): The following information is provided for Jerusalem (longitude E35.2, latitude N31.8):

Code:

    Friday   										        Friday   			
    6 February 2026       Universal Time + 3h            										        1 September 2034      Universal Time + 3h            			
												
                     SUN										                         MOON			
    Begin civil twilight      07:04                 										        Moonrise                  20:17 on preceding day			
    Sunrise                   07:29                 										        Moon transit              02:32                 			
    Sun transit               12:53                 										        Moonset                   08:52                 			
    Sunset                    18:18                 										        Moonrise                  20:58                 			
    End civil twilight        18:43                 										        Moonset                   09:57 on following day

Sun and Moon Data for One Day

The following information is provided for Jerusalem (longitude E35.2, latitude N31.8): Phase of the Moon on 1 September: * waning gibbous with 91% of the Moon’s visible disk illuminated.

Code:

    Friday   										Full Moon on 29 August 2034 at 19:49 (Universal Time + 3h).			
    1 September 2034      Universal Time + 3h            										1 Tishrei (1st Day of Rosh Hashanah)			
2 Tishrei (2nd Day of Rosh Hashanah)												
                     SUN													
    Begin civil twilight      05:50                 													
    Sunrise                   06:15                 													
    Sun transit               12:39                 			6th Hour										
    Sunset                    19:03                 			End of Rosh Hashanah										
    End civil twilight        19:28

thistle · Dec 22, 2011

stuartc said:
here is some spreadsheet information…

Solar Eclipses visible from Jerusalem, ISRAEL

Latitude: 31° 46’ 00" N
Longitude: 35° 14’ 00" E
Altitude: 808.9m
Time Zone: 03:00 E

Calendar Date Eclipse Type Partial Eclipse Begins Sun Alt A or T Eclipse Begins Maximum Eclipse Sun Alt Sun Azi A or T Eclipse Ends Partial Eclipse Ends Sun Alt Eclipse Mag. Eclipse Obs. Eclipse Duration
01-Jun-10 P 05:31 0(r) - 05:31(r) 0(r) 62 - 06:14:06 8 0.589(r) 0.498(r) 00:43:06
04-Apr-08 P 10:02:32 45 - 11:15:25 58 137 - 12:35:01 65 0.331 0.214 02:32:29
05-Mar-28 P 18:17:05 7 - 18:51(s) 0(s) 273 - 18:51 0(s) 0.503(s) 0.392(s) 00:33:55
05-Sep-22 P 06:28 0(r) - 06:57:25 6 92 - 07:59:15 19 0.514 0.4 01:31:15
06-Sep-11 P 08:20:01 25 - 09:15:03 36 108 - 10:16:02 48 0.192 0.096 01:56:01
17-Feb-15 P 11:46:33 42 - 13:11:19 45 185 - 14:33:03 39 0.699 0.624 02:46:30
19-Jun-21 P 13:51:09 71 - 15:08:57 55 266 - 16:18:06 41 0.658 0.583 02:26:57
20-Dec-03 P 13:14:50 35 - 14:44:31 27 214 - 16:04:17 16 0.761 0.699 02:49:27
24-Sep-21 P 18:15:31 4 - 18:37(s) 0(s) 272 - 18:37 0(s) 0.301(s) 0.184(s) 00:21:29
26-Feb-06 P 08:24:07 9 - 09:40:37 23 128 - 11:08:33 35 0.737 0.665 02:44:26 Friday
27-Jan-26 P 17:35:06 6 - 18:06:20 0 247 - 18:07 0(s) 0.097 0.035 00:31:54
29-Nov-24 P 10:22:15 29 - 11:44:13 37 167 - 13:12:06 37 0.921 0.906 02:49:51
32-Apr-28 P 08:28:14 31 - 08:47:21 35 96 - 09:06:51 39 0.038 0.009 00:38:37
33-Sep-12 P 11:54:49 62 - 12:58:21 63 192 - 13:59:29 57 0.198 0.101 02:04:40
34-Sep-01 P 12:46:40 67 - 13:58:19 61 224 - 15:06:27 49 0.321 0.205 02:19:47 Friday
38-Jun-21 P 08:09:41 31 - 08:28:51 35 82 - 08:48:23 40 0.034 0.007 00:38:42
39-Dec-04 P 13:21:08 35 - 13:58:35 32 203 - 14:35:01 29 0.107 0.042 01:13:53
41-Apr-19 P 06:34:05 5 - 06:56:01 9 84 - 07:18:35 14 0.068 0.021 00:44:30
45-Aug-01 P 10:45:26 61 - 12:02:50 74 143 - 13:21:48 74 0.643 0.567 02:36:22
49-May-20 P 09:26:44 47 - 10:57:27 66 114 - 12:41:00 78 0.929 0.891 03:14:16

Sun and Moon Data for One Day Sun and Moon Data for One Day

The following information is provided for Jerusalem (longitude E35.2, latitude N31.8): The following information is provided for Jerusalem (longitude E35.2, latitude N31.8):

Code:

Friday Friday 6 February 2026 Universal Time + 3h 1 September 2034 Universal Time + 3h SUN MOON Begin civil twilight 07:04 Moonrise 20:17 on preceding day Sunrise 07:29 Moon transit 02:32 Sun transit 12:53 Moonset 08:52 Sunset 18:18 Moonrise 20:58 End civil twilight 18:43 Moonset 09:57 on following day

Sun and Moon Data for One Day

The following information is provided for Jerusalem (longitude E35.2, latitude N31.8): Phase of the Moon on 1 September: * waning gibbous with 91% of the Moon’s visible disk illuminated.

Code:

Friday Full Moon on 29 August 2034 at 19:49 (Universal Time + 3h). 1 September 2034 Universal Time + 3h 1 Tishrei (1st Day of Rosh Hashanah) 2 Tishrei (2nd Day of Rosh Hashanah) SUN Begin civil twilight 05:50 Sunrise 06:15 Sun transit 12:39 6th Hour Sunset 19:03 End of Rosh Hashanah End civil twilight 19:28

What difference does any of this make??

It has no impact on our faith!

Dating Christ's Crucifixion

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